Using Knowledge Skills... Options

[Jonny Reload]

I was looking over Knowledge skills since one of my players brought this to my attention...

How come it's almost impossible for a Rank 6 Knowledge character (Who would be considered to have a Doctorate Degree) to find Obscure Information? With Knowledges, your only allowed to roll the dice for the Skill itself yet Obscure information in your field of knowledge has a threshold of 4.... How come there's no attribute added to this roll?

[Fortune]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

When using Knowledge Skills, you add either Intuition or Logic (depending on the type of skill involved) to the Dice Pool.

[Jonny Reload]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

When using Knowledge Skills, you add either Intuition or Logic (depending on the type of skill involved) to the Dice Pool.

Where does it state that (Cause I'm gonna feel like a horrible GM if I didn't see that anywhere along with my PC's)

[Mordinvan]

Where does it state that (Cause I'm gonna feel like a horrible GM if I didn't see that anywhere along with my PC's)

pg 127-128 under the different types of knowledge skills
street = intuition
academic = logic
professional = logic
interests = intuition

[Jonny Reload]

pg 127-128 under the different types of knowledge skills
street = intuition
academic = logic
professional = logic
interests = intuition

Just because there "linked" to them doesn't mean you roll those attributes (Take any Matrix skill, you almost never touch Logic when using those skills.)
In the examples for knowledge skills, they never include Intuition or Logic in the dice pools.... I mean I'd love to have that be the case but is this just a case of the text being REAAAAALY vague or is there something more concrete that shows you add an Attribute + Knowledge Skill?

[Fortune]

They never actually list the Dice Pool in the example. What other purpose does linking skills to an Attribute serve? Matrix Skills are a special case, but even then the base Dice Pool consists of two separate components.

Using skills works the same whether those skills be Knowledge, Active, or Language-based. When using any Skills (except in special cases such as the Matrix crap, where it specifically lists the exception), the Dice Pool is made up of Attribute + Skill. Modifiers are added afterward.

[Kyoto Kid]

...I still miss Knowledge skills being supplemental to Active skills as they were in 3rd ed. Made them a lot more useful.

[Mordinvan]

if you want to just use them as part of a team work test, where the character is his/her own team

[Kyoto Kid]

...provided the GM agrees (e.g. houserule). In 3rd it was part of the actual rules.

[Mordinvan]

Its a carry over from an old edition, and so shouldn't be too broken.
Besides it allows skills like 'knowledge seatle safe houses' to have a use when they assist and etiquette/negotiations roll to find one.

[raggedhalo]

All skills work the same (notable exception for Cracking Group, Computer and Data Search) -- Attribute plus Skill plus/minus modifiers. Knowledge skills are no different.

Read the example about Neko on pg. 110, BBB. They only list the skill ratings there, but there's no question that you'd roll Agility + Infiltration + specialisation, rather than just Infiltration + specialisation. Same goes for the Screaming Eagle example on pg. 128, BBB.

[ThePolo]

Yep... one of the best things about SR4 is the core mechanic... a dice pool for a test will almost always equal A + B ... A is usually a skill, B is usually an Attribute. (Some tests differ, I know. Notice I said 'usually').

Knowledge skills follow this same core mechanic. If you want to modify a roll for special circumstances, or come up with a test on the fly, it's so easy to do.

I sub in knowledge skills for linked attributes all the time. Some circumstances just seem to call for it, and it keeps knowledge skills useful for more than just legwork. Just keep the core mechanic in mind, and don't go overboard...

Hacking + Mainframe Architecture
Aura Reading + Magic Theory
Etiquette (Street) + Local Knowledge

Plenty of spots to fit this in, and the players seem to like it.

[Earlydawn]

Yep, I let players use knowledge skills in three ways:

• Roll knowledge skill plus attribute to learn more about a topic when it's experienced.
• Supplemental to an approperate active or techincal skill.
• Roll skill plus attribute to identify where to go to learn more about a given subject.