Unwired Questions, Now with Merge-y Goodness Options

[Caine Hazen]

Ok do I haven't read Unwired yet, but are there now rules that allow for people get around the crazy low subscription limit and play 8 on 8 games of miracle shooter or host a chat room with more than 12 people in it?

Refer to the previous look at the nexus.

[apple]

I only had the opportunity to look into my Unwired pdf for some minutes: where can I find the prices for cracked patches to ensure the SOTA of my programs?

SYL

[CloisterCobra]

I only had the opportunity to look into my Unwired pdf for some minutes: where can I find the prices for cracked patches to ensure the SOTA of my programs?

SYL

P109 & P110 is probably a good place to start.

Cheers
CC

[Sombranox]

I only had the opportunity to look into my Unwired pdf for some minutes: where can I find the prices for cracked patches to ensure the SOTA of my programs?

SYL

Pg 94 has the stuff on finding pirate networks to download programs and patches cheap.

[dionysus]

Question re. unrestricted agents: I see a ref to cost/availability modifiers on p100 and then again on p202. In the sidebar on p101, it mentions that legally bought agents are restricted from making hacking tests. Is this the only limitation that is removed in unrestricted agents? I can't see any other refs. to "Unrestricted Agents." Also, p202 says

Unrestricted agents are discussed on p. 62, Telematics
Infrastructure software on p. 71, pre-packaged IC can be found
on p. 188, and reality amplifiers on p. 188.

The page refs are weird: 62 is TI, 71 is the ice list, and reality amps are indeed 188. Where do I file a bug report? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Other than that, I'm lovin it!

[Wasabi]

Skillsofts can be emulated so they become Complex Forms compatible with Biowire.

Q: Can skillsoft CF's be improved with Karma?
Q: Can skillsoft CF's be learned from a Tutor Sprite? [as in the character doesnt have a skillsoft chip to emulate]

And some on B/R:
Q: If I have a Sleep Regulator and I'm working on something with an interval of a week does it improve the interval?
Q: Does a "Linked" Tutor sprite patching software get a better interval?

[LabRat]

Skillsofts can be emulated so they become Complex Forms compatible with Biowire.
Q: Can skillsoft CF's be improved with Karma?

No. As I wrote in the other thread, the CF is a memorized copy of the skillsoft, emulated into a format that Biowires can process. It cannot be upgraded.

Q: Can skillsoft CF's be learned from a Tutor Sprite? [as in the character doesnt have a skillsoft chip to emulate]

Personally, I would also say "No" here because that was not way it was intended. The limiting factor for the TM should be to acquire the skillsoft somehow. The in-game explanation (if you need any) would be that the TM cannot share its CF/ability with the TM that he can emulate it.

And before the question comes up, the TM cannot use Edge for tests even if it is a CF. It is still skillsoft.

Of course that it my (author) point of view.

[bishop186]

Quickly: I am loving the fluff in this book (I'm to page 72 thus far).

@knasser

The closest thing to a network of computers as one node that I see, with respect to what I've read in Unwired, is the Master-Slave relationship. What you'd do is slave all your desktop computers to your router computer, which would probably be a Nexus itself. This would allow the hacker access to all the computers. This means they could hack them separately (probably, with this setup, a direct wire connection to the proper computer only) or just hack the router computer that all the slaves are connected to.

So, they'd really still all be singular nodes, however with access to the master node, you could travel through them and access them more or less as if they were a singular node.

[Sombranox]

The closest thing to a network of computers as one node that I see, with respect to what I've read in Unwired, is the Master-Slave relationship. What you'd do is slave all your desktop computers to your router computer, which would probably be a Nexus itself. This would allow the hacker access to all the computers. This means they could hack them separately (probably, with this setup, a direct wire connection to the proper computer only) or just hack the router computer that all the slaves are connected to.

So, they'd really still all be singular nodes, however with access to the master node, you could travel through them and access them more or less as if they were a singular node.

The problem with slaving, if I'm not misunderstanding the whole thing, is that it requires a full subscription to maintain a slaving between two nodes, so slaving everything to one com would eat up the subscription limit fast, though a nexi can handle a higher subscription limit by default.

What I'm not quite sure about is whether it's allowed to have chains of slaving. i.e. if you have twelve items, slave 12 to 11, 11 to 10, etc, on up to the core system that takes up one subscription channel to slave that string of nodes. It's repeated a few places that, specifically in the Pan topology section, that the master comm can access any data in any of the subnodes, as long as their is some chain of communication.

I want to believe this sort of thing would work and is at the core of things like PANs so that you can have two gazillion little toys all linked up to your commlink and save subscriptions for tacnets and drones and such, but I'm not sure.

Also whether this chain of slaving idea would allow any kind of full VR eight on eight FPS game or whatever I'm not sure. In my mind I'd envision it something like a central node that acts as the main 'server' with subnodes to host player subscriptions, with the subnodes slaved to the master server, allowing it and it's programs to control what the players experience by sending signals to its sub-nodes, and thereby to the players.

Then again, it could just be really late and I'm totally overthinking the whole thing.

[Coldan]

Question about the degeneration of programms.

Hacking and malware programs degrade at the rate of 1 rating
point per month; all other programs degrade 1 rating point per
2 months.

The problem is, what is meant with all other programms?

There is a vast amount of different software types. So, what is included?

a) Common-Use
b) Agents
c) Pilots
d) IC
e) System
f) Firewall
g) Skillsoft/Knowsoft/Linguasoft
h) Datasoft/Mapsoft/Tutorsoft
i) Sensorsoft (including emotoys)
j) Autosoft

So what is included?

Greets,
Coldan

[FrankTrollman]

Question on Node/Persona interactivity:

When I use a program running on a Node other than the one I'm running my Persona on (Unwired p. 55), this uses up a subscription slot for my persona. Does it also count as being loaded onto my Persona for purposes of slowdown (SR4, p. 212)? If it does, why would I run a program in this way when with the same Complex Action and the same connection to the same server I could load a copy of the program into my own node directly onto my Persona and not use up an extra subscription slot?

-Frank

[bishop186]

@Sombranox

You're right on the subscribing part. We may all be overthinking this but hey, that's what Dumpshock is for.

Reading a little further in the list and reading the example designs of systems, specifically those on p. 74-5, I'm not wholly convinced that networks are even too terribly needed in a small-office setting. After all, most workers tend to have their own computer at their fingertips (usually given to them by the company like cells are today) and it seems that the bulk of the work would be done on those and then the worker would log-on to the system to upload data to a repository or to use a computer with more horsepower to compile, run tests, or something. And with uploading data, one wouldn't even have to subscribe to the node to transfer it.

Except for the increased security of having to connect your comm directly to the computer and the idea of a nice, quiet, work environment, and the added convenience of being able to yell at Johnson in the meat, I don't see why workers are even in the office at all for most of the day.

[edit]
@Frank

It doesn't seem to me that it would be, otherwise loading up your programs on your comm then utilizing them on the target system would slow down the system which would make it downright useless.

[apple]

Do I understand correctly the SOTA-rules in Unwired for cracked programs?

1) A normal hacker should not use legal programs because of the increased data trail.
2) A normal hacker should use cracked program.
3) cracked programs degenerate.
4) Every 1 or 2 month the hacker has to roll for EACH and EVERY program an patch availability test in the range of 14 to 24 (for the interesting programs)?
5) Every 1 or 2 month the hacker has to pay several thousand ¥ just to keep his program ratings (assuming an advanced hacker with all neccessary programs).
6) Patching its own software is not really an option because of the time involve.
7) Degenerating software include: common, hacker, firewall, system, malware, agent, pilot, skillsoft, knowsoft, linguasoft, navsoft, autosoft, tutorsoft, sensorsoft bought on the black market.

If that is all true: did anybody tested this system for a hacker in actual play? Because from its first reading it seems very cumbersome and slow and not very play-friendly with its increased book keeping and a dozen+ dice rolls per game month.

SYL

[CloisterCobra]

Do I understand correctly the SOTA-rules in Unwired for cracked programs?

1) A normal hacker should not use legal programs because of the increased data trail.
2) A normal hacker should use cracked program.
3) cracked programs degenerate.
4) Every 1 or 2 month the hacker has to roll for EACH and EVERY program an patch availability test in the range of 14 to 24 (for the interesting programs)?
5) Every 1 or 2 month the hacker has to pay several thousand ¥ just to keep his program ratings (assuming an advanced hacker with all neccessary programs).
6) Patching its own software is not really an option because of the time involve.
7) Degenerating software include: common, hacker, firewall, system, malware, agent, pilot, skillsoft, knowsoft, linguasoft, navsoft, autosoft, tutorsoft, sensorsoft bought on the black market.

If that is all true: did anybody tested this system for a hacker in actual play? Because from its first reading it seems very cumbersome and slow and not very play-friendly with its increased book keeping and a dozen+ dice rolls per game month.

SYL

In the spoilers thread there are rules for getting Pirated Patches, or getting a Pirated Program registered.

Personally I think the downside of Registered programs has been greatly overstated. All you need to do is buy the programs with a throw-away SIN (Rating one or two will do), with a postal address somewhere near Vladivostok and you mitigate most of the problems.

Cheers
CC

[Cthulhudreams]

The lone hacker is a dead architype. Cobra's solution doesn't work, because your registered software will be cut off after you commit your first computer crime in session 1, and thus become pirate ware.

So all your software is pirateware or you are dead, so the only way to keep your cracked programs SOTA is by joining a 'warez group' and collaborating on pirate patches - a rule that is entirely made of GM handwavium.

But clearly fastjack cannot work alone anymore, and you have to team up with a bunch of other guys. Enough guys so that you can patch your 'teams' programs every month. Every playable 'hacker' character has to be part of an organised crime syndicate, no exceptions. Have fun with that.

Luckily you don't need a day job because your agent can buy you a new medium lifestyle every week - or 4 a month. Living it large.

[Wasabi]

Every playable 'hacker' character has to be part of an organised crime syndicate

Or use Tutor Sprites. Register 4 Rating 4 per day, Compile 1 Rating 6 per day, then have them all use your nexus and programming suite to patch. Extra services is extra virtual bodies since you'll then be able to register new ones while the old ones continue. *During* a 'run have the services avail continue to patch along with a compiled Tutor Spirit also patching. Make sure they are all using the Knowsoft: Patching Cracked Software for extra dice-y goodness. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It requires Charisma for the max # of sprites to be high so a Stream based on Charisma would have an advantage as would a Paragon that gives bonuses to either all ("IO") or to Tutor Sprites.

[Cthulhudreams]

Sorry, I class technomancers and 'hackers' as different archtypes. But really, technomancers don't need programs. Hackers need programs. They don't have sprites. See the problem?

[Wasabi]

No. As I wrote in the other thread, the CF is a memorized copy of the skillsoft, emulated into a format that Biowires can process. It cannot be upgraded.


Personally, I would also say "No" here because that was not way it was intended. The limiting factor for the TM should be to acquire the skillsoft somehow. The in-game explanation (if you need any) would be that the TM cannot share its CF/ability with the TM that he can emulate it.

And before the question comes up, the TM cannot use Edge for tests even if it is a CF. It is still skillsoft.

Of course that it my (author) point of view.

I appreciate the response and am looking for something more official. Once a thing is converted into a different thing it then *IS* a different thing. In this case a Complex Form and Complex Forms have rules on being improved and on being learned. In your mind a skillsoft is a skillsoft even when its a Complex Form and while that may be the case I'd rather they voice their intention than us inferring it.

[Wasabi]

Sorry, I class technomancers and 'hackers' as different archtypes. But really, technomancers don't need programs. Hackers need programs. They don't have sprites. See the problem?

Totally a fair assessment. My TM's usually use lots of drones for their combat ability and the drones have cracked autosofts and the team uses a library of skillsofts so my own responses (above) are tainted by my groups and my own playstyle. Totally fair to split them out though.

[hobgoblin]

i ended up getting a copy of the pdf, and looking at page 55, there is info about clusters (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

perfect for those that earlier asked about representing a whole network as a single node.

hell, it makes me ponder clustering the rfid's of a runners clothing to get a makeshift comlink (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[LabRat]

I appreciate the response and am looking for something more official. Once a thing is converted into a different thing it then *IS* a different thing. In this case a Complex Form and Complex Forms have rules on being improved and on being learned. In your mind a skillsoft is a skillsoft even when its a Complex Form and while that may be the case I'd rather they voice their intention than us inferring it.

p.149, Unwired: "He can now either sustain the program as a normal threaded complex form of the same rating or memorize the skillsoft as a complex form by paying an amount of Karma equal to the rating (+1 for any program option or program option rating)."

It does not clearly say that the memorized CF has in fact a Rating though I agree that "threaded complex form of the same rating" implies that.
If it is a non-rated complex form (p. 136), you shouldn't be able to improve it.

But we have to wait for an official decision.

[Synner]

So all your software is pirateware or you are dead, so the only way to keep your cracked programs SOTA is by joining a 'warez group' and collaborating on pirate patches - a rule that is entirely made of GM handwavium.

But clearly fastjack cannot work alone anymore, and you have to team up with a bunch of other guys. Enough guys so that you can patch your 'teams' programs every month. Every playable 'hacker' character has to be part of an organised crime syndicate, no exceptions. Have fun with that.

Characters just need a contact or network where he can acquire/buy/trade the software he wants (which is basically what cracker and warez groups do today); just like any other archetype. If he want's to spread the love and provide top-end programs for everyone on his team, then yeah it can add up—then again the ability to do so or possessing the right contacts to do so distinguishes Matrix dabblers and script kiddies from hackers.

[paws2sky]

7) Degenerating software include: common, hacker, firewall, system, malware, agent, pilot, skillsoft, knowsoft, linguasoft, navsoft, autosoft, tutorsoft, sensorsoft bought on the black market.

Wait, this can't be right. Skill/know/lingui/active/tutorsofts degrade? Uh... why?

Also, why one earth make SOTA a regular part of the rules when its (rightly, IMO) been optional in prior editions?

-paws
Argh. This is going to be a record keeping nightmare...

[Irian]

Argeed, this seems strange. Degrading is ok (optionally), imho, for things like combat and hacking software - there will surely be new tricks every day, so that programs have to be keept up-to-date. Browse, for example, will perhaps degrade, but not very quickly, as new file formats, etc. will become available that need updates. Analyse, on the other hand, will degrade very quickly, as new programs, etc. will appear every day and the routines will have to be updated regularly.

Skillsofts shouldn't degrade, als Skills also don't. Languages also don't change quickly, so if a piece of code knows Japanese fluently today, it will also be fluently in 10 years, perhaps missing the newest "slang", but that's not enough to make it degrade 1 point, imho.

[Synner]

Wait, this can't be right. Skill/know/lingui/active/tutorsofts degrade? Uh... why?

Before this leads to further misunderstandings degradation only affects cracked programs. If you buy a legal skill soft or linguasoft it will be continually updated for free and will not degrade.

One of the reasons it happens is corps build-in obsolescence as a security feature in case the programs are cracked. This is guaranteed by both ensuring degrading functionality over time if "register users" don't apply patches, but also regularly fixing exploits and patching errors in the system soft/firmware these programs will be interfacing with. Sort of like taking Microsoft's mandatory system and security updates, the update patches for MMORPGs, or the updates for video codecs and Pdf readers and making them a security feature. It won't stop piracy but it'll make it harder on the warez scene.

Also, why one earth make SOTA a regular part of the rules when its (rightly, IMO) been optional in prior editions? Argh. This is going to be a record keeping nightmare...

It shouldn't be too difficult. Every program you possess is either cracked or legal. For convenience assume all cracked programs available at chargen were cracked at around the same time. If it's cracked, every month of game time that passes reduce the ratings of any unpatched hacking or malware programs by 1, for all other programs reduce 1 every two months of game time.