 Gun-Kata ...a.k.a. Gun-Fu, More movie inspired madness |
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  Dec 16 2003, 04:47 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Somewhere in the back of your mind Member No.: 5,845  |
Have any GMs out there had any requests to work out the Gun-Kata/Gun-Fu style from Equilibrium?
If so how did you do it. |
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Dec 16 2003, 04:49 PM
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#2
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
I was told to watch that. My friend said the protagonist would make an excellent idea for an SR character.
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Dec 16 2003, 04:49 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,035 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Anahiem, CA Member No.: 100 |
There have been several threads about this in the past. Do a search on the forum for Equilibrium. Also check the older forums too, there was stuff there.
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Dec 16 2003, 04:50 PM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,035 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Anahiem, CA Member No.: 100 |
A lot of people here have mixed feeling about the movie. Personally, I think it was great.
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Dec 16 2003, 04:52 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Somewhere in the back of your mind Member No.: 5,845 |
I did a search and it came back with nothing on the subject on these forums. Hence why I posted it :grr: As for the other forums , thanks for the tip but it just links back to these ones :P
Me too |
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Dec 16 2003, 05:10 PM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,035 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Anahiem, CA Member No.: 100 |
Crap, I did the link from memory, hang on and I'll fix it.
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Dec 16 2003, 05:11 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,035 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Anahiem, CA Member No.: 100 |
Fixed
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Dec 16 2003, 05:20 PM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 30-August 03 Member No.: 5,555 |
And, incidentally, the idea of the 'gun kata' has as much a basis in reality as the chambara movies do with more normal martial arts... Erm, which I guess is to say that it does actually exist, just not in the way that it is represented in Equilibrium. And, yes, I've brought up the topic before since I think it makes a more interesting approach to Adepts than the normal overt melee focus...
Kage |
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Dec 16 2003, 05:24 PM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
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Dec 16 2003, 05:52 PM
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#10
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
It takes a pretty huge stretch of the imagination to even suggest that any fighting style that exists in reality is in any way similar to the Gun Kata from Equilibrium. There are plenty of close range fighting techniques that are intended to be used with gun drawn. All of them are defensive in nature and most are intended to put some distance between you and your attacker so that A) you don't have to fight them for possession of the gun, B) you don't injure yourself with the gun, C) you don't injure any non-combatants or friendlies around you, and D) the likelyhood of an effective hit is increased.
The whole concept of Gun Kata is movie fiction. I seriously doubt that anything even approaching it will ever be taken seriously in reality. It just isn't safe, much less feasible. But it sure does look cool. |
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Dec 16 2003, 05:57 PM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Yes, and as we all know, Shadowrun is anything but fiction. :please:
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Dec 16 2003, 05:59 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Yes, and as we all know, Raygun wasn't answering to:
:please: :please: :please: :please: :please: :please: :please: |
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Dec 16 2003, 06:00 PM
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#13
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Kage 2020 suggested that something like Gun Kata exists in reality. It doesn't. That's all I'm saying. You can play the game any way you want.
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Dec 16 2003, 06:03 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 30-August 03 Member No.: 5,555 |
You will note that in terms of 'realism' I likened Equilibrium to the chambara/Hong Kong-type martial arts movies... That does not change the fact that one individual - I forget the name - has specifically developed fighting techniques geared towards the defense and offense with guns... Must... try... to remember the darned name! ;) Kage |
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Dec 16 2003, 06:10 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
You mean in response to the first sentence where Kage says it's about as realistic as another made-up movie martial art, or the second sentence where he said that it doesn't exist like it does in the movie but it does exist as a form of entertainment/exercise if nothing else? :please: Edit: Oops, looks like Kage himself responded before I could find the link. :D This post has been edited by Doctor Funkenstein: Dec 16 2003, 06:12 PM |
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Dec 16 2003, 06:15 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784 |
What somehow was missed in the gun kata concept is that people fighting hand-to-hand don't use kata either. They might use lessons learned from kata, but they are not going to try to replicate one of their kata during a fight. Except under the most fantastic coincidence, the kata is not going to be perfectly appropriate to their situation. Anyone trying to do their kata is going to lose quickly as soon as the situation diverges from the example that the kata illustrates.
So there could be gun-kata, sure-- there are stable-range-shooting techniques, point-shooting techniques, and even wounded-return-fire techniques. String a few together for a hypothetical situation, and you've got a gun kata. You still wouldn't kick in a door, go through the kata blindly, and expect to actually hit anyone -- anymore than you would get into a fist fight, close you eyes, execute your kata, and expect to open your eyes to a room full of unconscious foes. Though I liked the movie, I think Equilibrium smoked from the same kata crack pipe that Karate Kid did when Mr. Miyagi says, "Done correctly, there is no defense against the crane technique." --K Edits: Thanks for the gun-kata link. That's funny. The picture on the main page, of the guy in the white suit in a double-pistol kung fu pose amuses me because if he pulls the trigger of the gun in his right hand, he's going to get a hot shell casing up his nose on in his right eye, not to mention temporarily defeaning himself from the noise. I hope for his sake it's not loaded. |
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Dec 16 2003, 06:15 PM
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#17
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Unfortunately, I didn't know what chambara was and that kept me from inferring to it as a stylization of real martial arts. That's why I had to refer to your "Erm, which I guess is to say that it does actually exist, just not in the way that it is represented in Equilibrium" statement, which seems like a pretty far grasp to me.
Like I said, there are several real close range firearm techniques. You're probably thinking of Col. Rex Applegate's Point Shooting technique, which dismisses the use of sighted fire on particularly close range targets. It's nothing like the stylized Gun Kata.
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Dec 16 2003, 06:22 PM
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#18
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
All katas do is suggest a way you should move in a fight, not tell you how to fight. I can go through katas and work on the flow of everything, but if I try to use said kata in a fight for anything but flow, I'm going to get my ass handed to me.
"Gunfu" is the same way. Guns aren't about looking pretty. Anybody who thinks otherwise isn't going to last long in gang territory. |
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Dec 16 2003, 06:32 PM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
How about them both? Fortunately, your first reply did not in any way refer to whether gun kata exists IRL and in what form, but only to Raygun's "The whole concept of Gun Kata is movie fiction." and the way you (weirdly) interpreted this to mean that Shadowrun can't be (movie) fiction. Probably due to the fact that you wish to argue with Raygun about anything you can, since your views of the preferred level of fiction are so different. (This wannabe-analysis from a bit over a year of similar very short messages full of eye-rolling that are obviously meant to be aggravating that pop up in quite a few threads Raygun has posted in.) |
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Dec 16 2003, 09:51 PM
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#20
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Technically he's correct; done with exacting correctness, every technique is unstoppable. Of course, that rather depends on your opponent doing exactly the wrong thing, your technique being unhumanly perfect, lighting/ground conditions being optimal, you being in perfect shape, and a bajillion other factors that aren't bloody likely to occur together in the real world. |
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Dec 16 2003, 10:54 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 21-November 03 Member No.: 5,837 |
Acutally he isn't. No technique is unstopable. All of them have at least one flaw that can be exploited or a counter technique, or something that can be used to prevent that technique working in the first place.
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Dec 16 2003, 11:15 PM
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#22
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Target Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 30-August 03 Member No.: 5,555 |
First point: Chambara defines the style of martial arts movies where while there is a basis in reality (i.e. real fighting styles) the application is often represented as superhuman or supernatural. This is generally used in reference to the 'Hong Kong kung fu' movies such as, say, Iron Monkey. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is also technically chambara, though upper class. Thus, again, I was merely pointing out that it was about as plausible as any of those films (to which many RPGs allude to) but was based around a core of truth. That was all... Wasn't quite expecting it to get toasty. Second point: That's possible, though that name doesn't quite ring a bell at the moment. It would have come up in conversation ages ago and, to be honest, while I practice various martial arts they do not dominate my waking life. Ooh. Not suggesting that is the case with anyone else, just using that as a bit of a 'get out clause'... I'll have to go and have a chat with the person I remember mentioning it, if I can find them. But thanks for the URL. I shall check it out. Third point: Again, yes I know. That was the point in the chambara reference which is about as much to real life martial arts (though sometimes that can scarily 'supernatural' in itself) as Equilibrium was to the use of firearms in martial arts. Wasn't quite expecting people to jump on the use of "kata" as the suggestion that people would use them in a real life combat situation... However, compared to that one also has to remember that kata - poomsae, whatever - are representative of formalised combat as much as the swifter pre-arranged sparring types employed by many traditional martial arts. It is not 'just' moves randomly placed together. Bringing this back to Shadowrun, then depending on the individual style and preference of the GM it is an entirely plausible martial art form. My god, they've got cyber-fighting styles, why not the evolution of this? Yes, a bit hokey but SR is science-fantasy after all... But for those who like a bit of versimilitude then it is interesting to note that it is based in reality. Kage |
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Dec 16 2003, 11:22 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Arguably you could learn a form of melee involving guns as weapons:
1. This is how you block a swing with your gun. 2. This is how you snap the barrel forward as a strike 3. This is how you use the gun as a blunt object to strike soft, squishy parts As for martial techniques that improve your ability to fire the gun...probably not. Although modern day shooting schools would probably come closest to what you're thinking of, Thunder Ranch, for example. The Israelies teach a form of "gun-fu" -- trick or tactical shooting. For example, kicking back in a chair and in the same motion knocking a table up as concealment while drawing your weapon. If you believe non-confirmed sources. -Siege |
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Dec 16 2003, 11:26 PM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
I just want to chime in here and say that Equilibrium was a lame movie with only slightly cool fight scenes. They're not worth the hours of lame dialogue and unbelievable nonsense. I rented it once based entirely on forum-hype from around here and now my girlfriend and I use it as a synonym for crap.
Just my opinion. If you're one of those people who often feel cheated by bad movies, stay away. |
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Dec 16 2003, 11:29 PM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
DVD (borrowed) and chapter advance button. |
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