How young is to young to run?, Starting kids on RPGs |
How young is to young to run?, Starting kids on RPGs |
Jul 5 2008, 06:25 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 193 Joined: 11-May 08 From: In a small, padded room inside my head. Member No.: 15,968 |
My 10 and 7 year olds have asked me to teach them Shadowrun, they both love RPG video games, ie. WoW and GuildWars just to name two. Mom doesn't want me to because she doesn't want them to grow up to be a nerd like me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
The question(s) are: Has anyone ran a Shadowrun game with players this young? What kind of storyline was used? I can see following maybe a beast hunt because they would understand that easy enough. And I could keep it nonleathal as far as combat goes to curb the chance of nightmares. Any other ideas? |
|
|
Jul 5 2008, 07:27 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 22-June 08 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 16,076 |
You could always do Robin Hood type senarios obviously a little violence but you can script it enough to keep it PG ish. Some thugs stole a family possesion they higher the runers who are locals to get it back for them. Some ones prized pet is kidnaped and sent a ransom. You could give a frame up where they need to run around trying to figure out who has framed them and set the record straight. I sorta just look back to old A-Team and other shows that had violence but nothing serious. Zarlock |
|
|
Jul 5 2008, 08:22 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 22-August 03 From: Central New York Member No.: 5,531 |
I got into Shadowrun a couple of years after I started playing and running RPGs. So I was about 11. As for violence I don't think age is a huge issue as long as one knows the difference between fantasy and real life. That after all is the real issue with all things.
|
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 01:16 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 323 Joined: 17-November 06 From: 1984 Member No.: 9,891 |
Phew, SR is a harsh setting to start with for small kids. It lives from the setting and I am not sure kids need that. In my experience working with kids, they can handle talking about bad stuff that happens in the world, introducing it as a past time however - don't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
But, if you ignore the dark parts of the settings and go with some mystery, light-hearted fun like a group of friends fighting some evil spirits (in a cartoonish evil way) it could work. Think Jacky Chan or Power Rangers or some stuff like that. Maybe in good, since you can tell the stories (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Should be alot more fun than just watching it on TV. On the plus side of playing a RPG with your kids: You get to spend time with them, do something fun and probably get to know them better than by playing Wii. Lets not even talk about the educational possibilities. |
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 01:28 PM
Post
#5
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I've got a friend who wisely put it thusly: "don't put in anything worse than Grimm's fairy tales". So nothing worse than cannibalism, murder of parents by children, attempted murder of children by parents, dismemberment of children by parents, children abandoned in the woods to die of exposure by parents, severe self-mutilation, and early teenage pregnancy.
Kids have different tolerance levels, but unless you're particularly dark in your tone or vivid in your description, I doubt you're going to cause any nightmares. My personal opinion is that when they're old enough to calculate expected successes with a given number of dice and TN, they're old enough to play, and if they don't know how to yet, they're old enough for you to teach them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ~J |
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 01:37 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 323 Joined: 17-November 06 From: 1984 Member No.: 9,891 |
My personal opinion is that when they're old enough to calculate expected successes with a given number of dice and TN, they're old enough to play, and if they don't know how to yet, they're old enough for you to teach them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ~J Damn, I got to kick that 30 year old out my group, he has no clue about the relation between dice and successes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And true, alot of 'children storys' are incredible scary or brutal once you really think them through. Be it Grimm's tales on the brutal end and the |
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 02:09 PM
Post
#7
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
|
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 04:05 PM
Post
#8
|
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
From an education point of view, I think it's a great idea. It's a great way to be sneaky about teaching math. You get addition and subtraction, negative numbers, and probability, all without cracking a textbook. I'd recommend making all of your rolls (assuming you're the GM) in the open, so that they can do the math with you.
From a behavioral angle, yeah, keep the stories light. Maybe even have them play the "child detectives in a grown-up world" that Disney et alia seem to be enjoying lately. It's a great opportunity to teach certain aspects of the values you'd like them to have when you release them into the wild. Disclaimer: I am a teacher, but my clientele are a bit older (I teach high school and college), so while I've studied education theory for younger kids, I haven't spent a huge amount of time on it. |
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 06:14 PM
Post
#9
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 193 Joined: 11-May 08 From: In a small, padded room inside my head. Member No.: 15,968 |
Thanks for the input.
Right now I've got an idea about using Dog the Bounty Hunter as a model on how the characters and the story are developed. Even those with a SIN sometimes jump bail don't they? It would be hard to legally track down someone without SIN, that is what other runners are for, not bounty hunters. This way the PCs could be all they wanted to be on the other side of the law, the legal side. Permits and all. |
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 09:33 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
Well, if I had to play RPG with kids, I'd rather play another game that play a family-friendly version of Shadowrun. Actually I'd go with a game like Toon which, from what I've seen, works wonder with kids.
|
|
|
Jul 6 2008, 10:37 PM
Post
#11
|
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Believe it or not, at Origins, I demoed BattleTech for a pair of seven-year-olds and their dad. They loved it, and ultimately Dad got the starter set for his kids. Actually, it's a great introduction to gaming, strategy, arithmetic, probability, and geometry, especially with the simplified version that can build into the full version as they mature.
|
|
|
Jul 7 2008, 01:03 PM
Post
#12
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,162 Joined: 16-November 07 Member No.: 14,229 |
My 5 year old son thinks Shadowrun is super cool, but doesn't quite get role playing yet. He views everything in "shoot it, take its stuff" terms thanks to his exposure to computer and console games (Dungeons Runners, LEGO Star Wars, etc). He's been bugging me for about a month to play.
So last week my wife and I decided to humor him and sat down to play some Shadowrun Lite. I let them choose between a street sam and a mage. Their assignment was to run the border into enemy territory and investigate a small, but busy village that had turning into a ghost town overnight. Simply put, it was a bug hunt. Borrowing heavily from 8-Legged Freaks and all those 50's and 60's atomic horror movies I saw as a kid (Them, in particular), they were assaulted by giant spiders, scorpions, and other creepy crawlies. Realizing they didn't have the firepower (or ammo!) to beat all the bugs, they fled back to their military base. All in all, it lasted about 30 minutes. There was no role playing to speak of, but my son had a great time and my wife was amused by the whole thing. Of course, now I can't tell him when I leave to play Shadowrun with my friends, because he wants to go and play too... I was considering unpacking my Shadowrun Duels figures for him to play with (what am I doing with them?), but I think I'll wait a few years. He's really bad about loosing pieces to his toys. -paws |
|
|
Jul 7 2008, 01:11 PM
Post
#13
|
|
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Very prudent, Paws. While it's good to teach the kids, if you don't cater to what they're looking for, they're unlikely to ask to play a second time.
I look forward to my child (currently 4, so we're just ironing out talking) being able to play SR. Failing all else, it'll be a good lesson on why drugs are bad and why we don't talk to strangers. I really don't object to the idea of children being exposed to the concept of violence. Like Kage brought up, our traditional fairy tales are full of them, and for good reason. However, I would not want to either provide too much in the way of descriptions, nor encourage the PCs to engage in behavior I don't approve of (at that age, anyway). The kids should be encouraged to be moral, strong, brave, and most of all, intelligent. RPGs are a fantastic arena for teaching those skills. |
|
|
Jul 8 2008, 12:32 PM
Post
#14
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 28-March 05 From: NA/UCAS/IN/ Member No.: 7,246 |
When I was a teenager and starting to get into rpg's, my younger brothers wanted in on the game too. SR wasn't out yet, and the parents were dead set against me getting D+D in the house, but I convinced them that Top Secret S.I. would be okay. Playing as spies with gadgets and such. We eventually house ruled most of my youngest brothers G.I. Joe toys with TSSI stats. Everyone wanted to be Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. I was about 16, my one brother was 14 and the youngest was about 10, I think. I was the GM and kept the bad stuff to a minimum, even throwing in a lesson about drinking alcohol to excess while on a mission into the mix.
How young is too young is a decision for the parents to make together, but if you keep it light and fun, I don't see anything wrong with it. God forbid the little crumb cruncher gets a real appreciation for reading, math skills, and strategic thinking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
Jul 8 2008, 02:07 PM
Post
#15
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
If your kids take WOW ok, on both the fantasy violence and real-vs-game fronts, they are certainly old enough for Shadowrun.
To use Batman analogies, keep the tone more "The Batman" and less Frank Miller. Shadowrun: The Animated Series... Eh, I'd watch it. |
|
|
Jul 16 2008, 02:26 AM
Post
#16
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 193 Joined: 11-May 08 From: In a small, padded room inside my head. Member No.: 15,968 |
Thanks everyone for your ideas and input. As of right now, the boss (my beautiful wife) has told me in no uncertain terms that our kids will NOT become nerds. "When I think of roleplaying, I think of 30 year olds playing in their parents basement." Well I'm 34 and have my own basement thank you very much. But as the old saying goes, "she who controls the sex can make the rules." What can I say, i think with both heads.
|
|
|
Jul 16 2008, 02:31 AM
Post
#17
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,382 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Shadowland Member No.: 8,297 |
HeavyMetalYeti,
Sorry to hear that. Does the boss also play? My wife started playing about six months ago and while she isn't that into the game (she likes the joking around the table) she isn't opposed to the boys playing when they are a little older. You might try to get her involved in the game too. However, YMMV. |
|
|
Jul 16 2008, 04:45 PM
Post
#18
|
|
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Also worth considering, while many people enjoy the simulationist gaming that requires dice and mechanics and such, I found my wife loves the storylines of RPGs and absolutely fell in love with such an idea. Frankly, the idea of interactive story-telling is fairly old, and no one can really object to engaging in such things with one's children, wife included. The only thing there is you have to find a setting your audience finds acceptable.
This comes with a caveat though, be careful, your plan may be a bit too successful... |
|
|
Jul 16 2008, 06:43 PM
Post
#19
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,162 Joined: 16-November 07 Member No.: 14,229 |
You don't need to be a nerd to game or appreciate gaming. You just need an appreciation of creativity and imagination.
And math skills help. And literacy is good too (and it reinforces reading as a recreation activity). And, well, being a nerd never hurts, but its not mandatory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) |
|
|
Jul 18 2008, 06:39 PM
Post
#20
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 21-May 08 From: lurking around the corner Member No.: 15,996 |
I guess I'm lucky, my son is 2 and just like to roll dice. I don't think I will start with SR most likely TMNT or Super Heroes. I have Introduced 8+ yrs to RPG to learn how to tell a store for making a game. The basic choose your own adventure for the one younger then 8. Good luck with teaching the little ones.
|
|
|
Jul 18 2008, 09:23 PM
Post
#21
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 188 Joined: 24-June 08 From: California Free State Member No.: 16,080 |
Shadowrun can be pretty grim. I guess it depends on what parts of the game you want to emphasize. But there is plenty of material there for young kids... but I started playing when I was around 13.
|
|
|
Jul 18 2008, 10:11 PM
Post
#22
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 193 Joined: 11-May 08 From: In a small, padded room inside my head. Member No.: 15,968 |
I've tried to get her to play, she claims that she doesn't have the imagination for it. When it comes to video RPGs, she has no ploblems. I've watched her kick ass on WoW, Guild Wars, even on Diablo and Zelda but the whole idea of using your brain to see the action instead of your eyes I guess is beyond her. Or so she claims. As far as being a nerd, well she did marry one so that entitles her to an honorary degree of geekdom if you ask me. I haven't given up yet...
|
|
|
Jul 27 2008, 01:38 AM
Post
#23
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
I know a middle-aged anthropologist and lecturer, Johnathan, who passed down all of his old SR1-SR2 books to me. Every friday he has his gaming group. They get together and play lots of different pen and paper games, and they've even played games they wrote themselves. I'm more about the Shadowrun, so I've never joined. But this group has been playing for years, and inevitably, a bunch of the guys had kids, and the kids grew up, and they started to come with their dads.
Of course, when they were younger they'd play a bit of combat, and then go to sleep as the gamer's started role-playing deep issues and such. And as they get older they get more and more interested. Of course, they always play psychotic characters. One particular child always plays the complete antagonist to his dad's character, and foils his plans any chance he gets. He was once sitting watch on a pirate ship (in some pirate game), and then he raised a false alarm for fun, and then set fire to the ship. So playing with kids is awesome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
|
|
Jul 27 2008, 03:11 AM
Post
#24
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 533 Joined: 26-February 02 From: In a hot tub, with lots of bubbles and champagne waiting for you. Member No.: 1,972 |
realise that you are condeming your kids to a life of virginity and will live in your basement till the day you die.
how are you kids s'posed ta get a hot babe when they find out they play games like this? your wife definately thinks otherwise. |
|
|
Jul 27 2008, 12:52 PM
Post
#25
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Neverwhere Member No.: 2,048 |
My own experiences in gaming started when I was 5. I was too young to play, but I discovered gaming again when I was 12. I found it fun playing Paranoia, and then I moved to D&D. D&D was fun. It was not so much the gaming, but drawing and using my imagination. I think anything that makes kids use their imagination is a good thing. Preferably things that are inspired by the books and activities around them. I found that LARP was really fun.
Lets face it kids are really hard to stay put for a few hours, instead you should allow them to play. |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 15th May 2024 - 04:31 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.