Sat Uplink Options

[Prime Mover]

Ok I know theres a long discussion on boards about signal rating and range to LEO. But I don't have the PDF yet and my hardcopy is a few weeks from arriveing. So my question. Seems to be a penalty for using a sat uplink in unwired to "hack" with. Just wondering about specifics, hacker in our group who has been using sat uplink as written in BBB without penalty in "deadzones"

[FrankTrollman]

It halves your Response Rating (minimum 1) to use a Geostationary satellite by RAW. No mention is made as to whether this response halving affects program ratings, nor is any indication of how you would even contact a geostationary satellite as the only equipment which claims to be able to communicate with satellites of any kind only mentions Low Earth Orbit sats, which are about 10 times closer, and even that item lacks the signal range to actually meet the LEO satellites mentioned in Unwired (100 km versus 1000 km). And of course, Geostationary satellites are equatorial anyway, so I'm not sure why someone running in Seattle is supposed to give a damn one way or the other.

But yeah, p. 51 specifies half response for Geostationary Satellites and no penalty for LEO satellites (assuming you could actually contact either one with RAW equipment, which you can't).

-Frank

[Cheops]

Unless of course you assume the sat uplink to mean that you are connected to a satellite and are now using the greater signal coverage of the satellite as opposed to Frank's interpretation that Signal 8 is meant to reach Earth's orbit.

Geostationary halves your Response but makes it impossible to track you to within more than about 100 km. I personally am ruling it to be the same as Response = .5*Response so your programs and load will be severely affected. But you are however, untraceable.

If your hacker is worried about being tracked he can also use Proxy Servers, which give -1 Response and +4 to the Track threshold.

[Blade]

Unless of course you assume the sat uplink to mean that you are connected to a satellite and are now using the greater signal coverage of the satellite as opposed to Frank's interpretation that Signal 8 is meant to reach Earth's orbit.

Yes, it depends if you want to assume that Unwired is written correctly or if you want to assume it's totally worthless and written by idiots.

It's interesting to consider that while the hacker is untraceable, it's also extremely easy to pick up the signals sent by the satellite, since they're not directed to the hacker but broadcasted.

[Chrysalis]

I would ignore it unless you are running a trace route maze. After all, if you are hacking a site in Singapore while being located in Seattle it would not matter if you are using a Sat uplink, cellular modem, or in the case of a technomancer an ouija board.

-Chrysalis

[Ryu]

The Astra series of GEO-sats can be reached with a sattelite dish that has a diameter way below 1m (about 60+ cm). Don´t be worried.

Footprint of a single sattelite

[FrankTrollman]

Yes, it depends if you want to assume that Unwired is written correctly or if you want to assume it's totally worthless and written by idiots.

It's actually fairly clear what happened actually. The Sat Link in the basic book just barely reaches "space" as defined in Shadowrun (by virtue of the extent of the atmosphere and manasphere).

Then the people who wrote Unwired looked up the distance that LEO satellites actually are from the planet in 2008 and then wrote in that this was the distance satellites were in 2071 (good physics reasons to think this will be true as it happens), and forgot to check the equipment distances of the things in the basic book or to write any new equipment to deal with the new information, assuming instead that Signal ranges would just work themselves out.

-Frank

[crizh]

I always rather assumed a sat link was a bit like a portable 'cell tower' kind of arrangement. The Signal rating that it has is not how far it can be from the satellite which in reality is an unnecessary number to know. It's a sat link. It can reach the dang satellite.

I assume the Signal rating of the device is the range of it's re-trans capabilities. Deadzone? Plonk down a sat link and your good to go for up to 10 klicks. Need more? Add a couple of re-trans drones to the mix.

I also wouldn't say Unwired was written by idiots. In fact I would go so far as to say it was written by some very smart folks.

A committee of very, very smart folks.....

[Prime Mover]

So half response for one no penalty for the other, what determines which one you can use/have access too?

Edit: Ignoring signal issues.

[Ryu]

Reaching a GEO-sat is possible unless you are close to one of the poles. LEO numbers are hard to predict, but the coverage should IMO be rather perfect, at least in civilised regions. If you want to mix things up, take a look at the astra footprint - size matters for sattelite dishes.

If you are using a LEO sattelite, you get a timeframe of some 30 minutes before loosing LOS to the sattelite, and tracking your location is way easier (due to rapidly changing signal travel times).

[Chrysalis]

Actually if you are using a similar system as the Iridium satellite phone you can be literally anywhere in the world and get a signal.

[Tycho]

A Signal can get much farther if there is no atmosphere that interfere with it. So my interpretation is, that the Reach of the Signal Rating are for on ground use not for space communication.
If you want to be realistic: a start up Satelite Ground Station today cost about 50000€ (regarding to my aerospace Professor), so imagine yourself how much this is in 2070.

cya
Tycho

[Jackstand]

It's actually fairly clear what happened actually. The Sat Link in the basic book just barely reaches "space" as defined in Shadowrun (by virtue of the extent of the atmosphere and manasphere).

Then the people who wrote Unwired looked up the distance that LEO satellites actually are from the planet in 2008 and then wrote in that this was the distance satellites were in 2071 (good physics reasons to think this will be true as it happens), and forgot to check the equipment distances of the things in the basic book or to write any new equipment to deal with the new information, assuming instead that Signal ranges would just work themselves out.

-Frank

Alternately, they were fully aware, and the portable sattelite links aren't intended to reach geostationary satellites, nor do they need to. More than likely, every RTG is connected to a satellite, since that's how you can make a phone call from Phoenix to Cairo. You don't need to connect directly to the satellite. Just reach out and touch someone.

Edit: Nevermind, you said the range was too short even for the LEO ones.

[Cheops]

So half response for one no penalty for the other, what determines which one you can use/have access too?

Edit: Ignoring signal issues.

All you need is a Satellite Uplink and you can do either. It is a decision the character makes when he Logs On.

[JoelHalpern]

All you need is a Satellite Uplink and you can do either. It is a decision the character makes when he Logs On.

That's pretty "neat". The same device can reach 1,000 km and 38,000 km (radio obeys the inverse-square law.) !?
Note that there is a good reason that systems like Iridium use whole constellations of LEO (actually Iridium reportedly uses about 780 km) satellites. The power needed to reach Geo-stationary orbit really needs a big, directional, antenna, carefully aimed.
Something that "only" reached 1,000 km would seem to be a LOT cheaper and a LOT smaller.

Joel

PS: Yes, anything that can reach geo-stationary can reach LEO. But that is quite a reach. You are talking about a factor of 1600 in required effective power. (Directional Antenna give you a big factor to help that in real life.)

[Aaron]

That's pretty "neat". The same device can reach 1,000 km and 38,000 km (radio obeys the inverse-square law.) !?

Er ... it occurs to me that a device that can reach 38,000 km would have little trouble with a thousand. And don't forget the effect of a parabolic reflector.

Note that there is a good reason that systems like Iridium use whole constellations of LEO (actually Iridium reportedly uses about 780 km) satellites. The power needed to reach Geo-stationary orbit really needs a big, directional, antenna, carefully aimed.

Actually, the power doesn't need it. The broadcast unit does. =i)

But responding to what you appear to be trying to say, I'm fairly certain you only need either a lot of power or a directional antenna. If you've got the one, you need much less of the other.

[JoelHalpern]

But responding to what you appear to be trying to say, I'm fairly certain you only need either a lot of power or a directional antenna. If you've got the one, you need much less of the other.

A parabolic antenna certainly helps. Their are fancier directional rigs (I am not a radio expert.) Cell towers use parabolic antenna, for many reasons.
A directional antenna of any sort helps offset power requirements. And the narrower the resulting beam, the more effective the benefit. However, that also leads to needing more precise aiming towards the satellite. The moving satellite.
For reaching geostationary communication satellites, I am pretty confident that you need either a LOT of power, or more typically a directional antenna and decent power levels. A lot more power than a light weight (E cell?) battery, even in 2070.

But the main point is that a rig designed to reach a 1,0000 KM satellite has very different power, directionality, and tracking needs than a rig designed to reach a satellite that is basically stationary and 38,000 km.

Joel

[Prime Mover]

It occurs to me (and again don't have unwired available to me yet) that using a Geosync Sat could be accomplished via connecting to a service that did have a larger antenna. This could be done simply by being connected to the matrix and using your standard connection to access a geo sat antenna service?

[JoelHalpern]

It occurs to me (and again don't have unwired available to me yet) that using a Geosync Sat could be accomplished via connecting to a service that did have a larger antenna. This could be done simply by being connected to the matrix and using your standard connection to access a geo sat antenna service?

That is quite reasonable, but not what a "Satellite Uplink" would do.
The best way to ask the question is to imagine what happens if you are in the middle of the pacific ocean, beyond line of site of any ground based matrix node.
Can your boat use the same Satellite link that is advertised for runners, or does it have a rather better powered, motorized and gyroscopically stabilized directional antenna and transmitter?

What if you are in a mountainous valley without line of site to the Matrix, but with a nice view of a geostationary communications satellite.
Does the book satellite uplink work, or not?

If it works in both those situations, then it is working by itself. My understanding is that is what is intended.
If it does not work in those situations, then it is just a repeater of specified signal strength ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) . A grade 8 repeater is a nice piece of gear. It has many uses.

Yours,
Joel

[Dumori]

Well lets say the device has gps, a direction antena and a a decent signal range. I aseme that the device finds out where the sats are in relation to you sets the antana witch can move by its self to track on to said sat. Now power wise does it say any where how big the unit is or how portable? may be in 2070 low orbit sats can send signals to the geostationary satalights. I'm sure that with some increases in tech that a system like this is highly plausible. I see the signal rating as the retrans power of the uplink.

[Cheops]

It occurs to me (and again don't have unwired available to me yet) that using a Geosync Sat could be accomplished via connecting to a service that did have a larger antenna. This could be done simply by being connected to the matrix and using your standard connection to access a geo sat antenna service?

Yes. However, this would involve a hack and since a sat uplink is a legal piece of gear for 500 nuyen you are better off just buying the gear.