Using SR3 Legality laws in SR4 & Permits Options

[Gunbunny]

Folks,

I'm going to use the the legality rules and UCAS laws from SR3 in my SR4 game. To that end, I was reviewing my SR3 stuff and noticed something like the Bow that has a Legality of 5-D in it. I noted this type of notation for several items, such as knives, swords, etc. It does not indicate they are "Legal". As such, can one buy a possession/transport permit for these items, as there is no "P" listed in the Legality Code....what's a runner (or GM) to do? I've got a Troll running around with a Bow...

I really never played/ran SR3, as my group didn't become interested in SR until 4th ed.

Looking forward to some enlightenment!

GB

[Stahlseele]

let the troll have his fun . . if he ain't got no other weapons in a serious fire-fight he will be sorely lacking . . a bow is good for sniping and nothing more . . even if it tends to do that particularly well . . better than PACs and real sniper rifles . . Bows are considered sporting apparell, even if you can punch holes in armored personal carriers with them . . and if he ain't using one of those fold-up-bows the bow will be farily obvious to anyone, so no carrying that one around all day without getting bothered about it . . and as far as i know the actual ARROWS can NOT be folded up and THOSE have to be carried too . . the bow may have tremendous damage and reach, but an assault rifle will be better in most cases . . only for big game hunting(high armor Trolls, APC's, large/armored critters i would use a Bow instead of something with burst/full auto capabilites O.o

[hyzmarca]

In SR3, there are no forbidden items. Just like in real life, you can get a permit for anything if you're willing to jump through the correct bureaucratic hoops.

Edit: And the above is completely and totally wrong.

[Gunbunny]

Oh, the Troll has his fun with it. However, I forsee problems with him sporting a Bow across his back in Downtown Seattle in a AAA area. My question has to do with legality, however. It indicates in the Seattle/UCAS laws (P 274, SR3) that Possession of a Category D item (Projectile) can get you a fine 300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , and there is no P indicator in the legality code. Am I to assume that said weapons are illegal (I wouldn't think so, but the legality code and fine makes me think otherwise).

GB

[Stahlseele]

they are not per se illegal . . it is just forbidden to carry them around outside of hunting grounds/sports clubs/shooting ranges o.O
SWORDS are not illegal today, but if you get caught sporting one out in the open you will get in trouble, because you had it with you

[Gunbunny]

In SR3, there are no forbidden items. Just like in real life, you can get a permit for anything if you're willing to jump through the correct bureaucratic hoops.

Then the whole "P" not being in the Legality code is an oversight? I'm willing to buy that. The players may grumble about yet another (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) sink, but hey...Bureaucracy at its finest! Red tape and paperwork galore!

GB

[Gunbunny]

they are not per se illegal . . it is just forbidden to carry them around outside of hunting grounds/sports clubs/shooting ranges o.O
SWORDS are not illegal today, but if you get caught sporting one out in the open you will get in trouble, because you had it with you

That makes sense as well, at least with the Bow. I fully expect the Troll to yell and scream about it, but when it hits hard enough to take out armored vehicles, etc...

Of course, that makes having a small blade forbidden to carry outside the house then?

GB

[Stahlseele]

well, for the most part, carrying CERTAIN blades is forbidden . . and carrying such things HIDDEN is almost allways forbidden . . in the us of a there's the carry permit for guns and there's the concealed carry permit, as far as i know . . in germany you may not carry blades of a certain lenghth, nor knives with a fixed blade, but the swiss army knife is still allowed . . butterflys/switchblades are forbidden for example . . then there's the grey room of house-hold-knives . . you buy them, you have to get them home some how . . bread knives as long as my fgore-arm and raor-sharp and stable like a machete are usually ignored and even openly sold, even if it is strictly illegal to sell a MACHETE with the exact same get-up . .
as an addendum: now it's even forbidden to carry things that LOOK like weapons but AIN'T weapons at all . . imagine how the larpers moan and groan about this . .

[hyzmarca]

See my edit to my above post. Its been some time since I checked the book; I made a mistake.

Well, you can't get a permit to concealed-carry a longbow these days, either. But you can still own one. When it comes to knives, bows, and the like, the difference between an illegal weapon and a sporting item or a cooking utensil is totally in the perception of the police, the prosecutor, and the jury.

Most states have laws prohibiting the carrying of knives over a certain length in public. If you go to a restaurant or a steakhouse and order a steak you will most likely be provided with a steak-knife that exceeds this length maximum legal length. The police could, hypothetically, barge into that steakhouse while you are cutting your steak and arrest you for brandishing an illegal weapon. They could probably arrest you for brandishing an illegal weapon if you were eating fast food with a plastic spork. And you'd probably be convicted.

But they won't, because it's stupid.

The key to carrying a troll bow in a AA neighborhood without getting arrested is simple. Be polite, have a valid reason for carrying the weapon other than "to kill some bitches", and bribe like hell.

[Stahlseele]

Well, you can't get a permit to concealed-carry a longbow these days, either.

don't get me wrong, but now i really wanna see an image of someone trying to concealed carry such a bow ^^
as for the restaurant, technically, no, i don't think the police could do that . . as you're not really out in the public . . from the point of view of a lawyer you're in the restaurant, which is owned by someone, who explicitly allows you to handle those dangerous knives in his establishment . . right of house and the whole shebang . . i could hand you a gun in my home without anybody being able to do shit about it O.o

[hyzmarca]

don't get me wrong, but now i really wanna see an image of someone trying to concealed carry such a bow ^^
as for the restaurant, technically, no, i don't think the police could do that . . as you're not really out in the public . . from the point of view of a lawyer you're in the restaurant, which is owned by someone, who explicitly allows you to handle those dangerous knives in his establishment . . right of house and the whole shebang . . i could hand you a gun in my home without anybody being able to do shit about it O.o

The law makes distinctions between fully private establishments and privately owned establishments that are open to the public. Generally, laws against carrying weapons in public extend to carrying weapons in privately owned public establishments. For example, it is illegal to carry a firearm in a bar in most states. Now, there are very few state-owned bars in this world. Most governments try to stay out of the alcohol serving business.

[Gunbunny]

Thanks for the info! My questions have been answered!

GB