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Rasumichin
post Jul 31 2008, 10:55 AM
Post #1


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Recently, somewhere on this forum, the question came up wether security personell is still advised to "shoot the mage first", as was the case since SR2's Awakenings came out.

I'm not certain wether this doctrine appears anywhere within SR4, but it certainly is prevalent in the minds of many GMs who suppose it to be a choice for sec-guards both plausible from an ingame perspective and strategically feasible on the mechanic side.

I must admit that, after reading Awakenings back in the mid-90s, i found the whole concept to just make sense.
"Yeah, guards would act like that", i thought, "and it would make fights more challenging for the group".

Recently, though, i am more and more coming to the point of discarding the whole concept, at least from a mechanics-inspired metagamey point of view.

While within the setting, many possible opponents -those whose knowledge of magic is derived from watching Karl Combatmage- might actually fall for it, any opposition with serious training, all enemies able to keep a level head in a fight against a runner team, might actually not decide to target the spellcaster first.

See, in other RPGs, those where magical healing is something happening on the instant, not taking time to be upheld until it comes into effect, the most feasible choice would be to take out the healer first.
Otherwise, he will be able to foil or at least seriously hinder any attempt to eleminate other teammembers by instantly healing the damage done to them, buying his team the time to hack the opposition into pieces.
So, in D&D, the best advice for a group of enemies would be to go for the cleric.
Or, in RPGs such as DSA/TDE, where healing is also the mage's job, actually shooting -or slashing, or rending, or whatever- the mage first actually is the way to go.

In SR, the mage usually also functions as the group's healer, but will rarely be able to do so in mid-combat, as heal spells have to build up over several rounds.
Shooting the mage can also lead to one or more spirits going free, with completely unforeseeable consequences best dealt with under more controlled conditions.

So, if we do not target the mage, the next logical choice would be to target the group member with the highest damage output, as without the hindering factor of instant healing, he would pose the greatest threat.
And with a sufficiently optimized sam or with a well-prepared drone rigger, i have doubts that this group member will be the mage.

Another aspect to be taken into consideration is the importance of initiative in SR combat.
Would it be the most feasible option to shoot the party member first who...well, shot first?

These are just some ideas i speculated about during the last days.
What is your opinion on the issue?
Of course, there will be situations where one will not be able to apply textbook tactics for a group of sec-guards.
Where greatly varying, situational aspects mandate a certain mode of operation.

But in general, is there a reason to stick to the old motto of shooting the mage first?
Or do we have to replace it with another modus operandi?
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Posts in this topic
- Rasumichin   Shoot the mage first?   Jul 31 2008, 10:55 AM
- - Dancer   There are two reasons to "Geek the mage!...   Jul 31 2008, 11:20 AM
- - masterofm   It's called geeking the mage, and yes you pret...   Jul 31 2008, 11:33 AM
- - Fleinhoy   Besides, that early in a fight, how will the vario...   Jul 31 2008, 11:37 AM
- - Drogos   Yeah the mage's ability to change the battlefi...   Jul 31 2008, 11:43 AM
- - xsansara   Shoot the mage first, because he is most valuable ...   Jul 31 2008, 11:44 AM
- - Sir_Psycho   Don't forget, if the sec-team has a mage (whic...   Jul 31 2008, 11:49 AM
- - masterofm   Player phase - IP 1 everyone shoots the cyber monk...   Jul 31 2008, 11:51 AM
- - ElFenrir   QUOTE Shoot the mage first, because he is most val...   Jul 31 2008, 12:01 PM
- - masterofm   Troll mages with a high body that specialize in ov...   Jul 31 2008, 12:04 PM
- - Ryu   Survival strategies on the part of the guards sugg...   Jul 31 2008, 12:14 PM
- - Blade   Geek everyone first! High Initiative+Grenades...   Jul 31 2008, 12:32 PM
- - Rasumichin   Couple of excelent points made here. Let's ta...   Jul 31 2008, 02:35 PM
|- - Tarantula   QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Jul 31 2008, 07:35 AM...   Jul 31 2008, 05:54 PM
||- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Tarantula @ Jul 31 2008, 11:54 AM)...   Jul 31 2008, 06:35 PM
|||- - sunnyside   QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jul 31 2008, 02:35...   Jul 31 2008, 06:57 PM
||- - Rasumichin   QUOTE (Tarantula @ Jul 31 2008, 06:54 PM)...   Jul 31 2008, 07:28 PM
|- - Shiloh   QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Jul 31 2008, 03:35 PM...   Aug 1 2008, 09:14 AM
- - Drogos   Or the team on the ground is relying on their own ...   Jul 31 2008, 03:10 PM
- - Sir_Psycho   Hackers don't even come into it. An AR hacker ...   Jul 31 2008, 03:49 PM
|- - Ryu   QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jul 31 2008, 05:49 PM...   Jul 31 2008, 04:17 PM
|- - Rasumichin   QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jul 31 2008, 04:49 PM...   Jul 31 2008, 04:28 PM
|- - Muspellsheimr   QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jul 31 2008, 09:49 AM...   Jul 31 2008, 05:30 PM
- - CanRay   First rule of Combat: Geek the Magician. Second ...   Jul 31 2008, 04:00 PM
- - ElFenrir   QUOTE Still, at this point, i'd say the geek f...   Jul 31 2008, 04:08 PM
- - sunnyside   Also the Geek the mage first philosophy results in...   Jul 31 2008, 05:00 PM
- - nezumi   Geeking the rigger first is definitely best if you...   Jul 31 2008, 06:03 PM
- - Moon-Hawk   It's also worth mentioning that the whole geek...   Jul 31 2008, 06:12 PM
- - Muspellsheimr   Most mages (excluding PC's, because then it ju...   Jul 31 2008, 07:23 PM
|- - Platinum Dragon   QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Aug 1 2008, 05:23 ...   Aug 1 2008, 06:38 AM
- - Wounded Ronin   ALWAYS kill the mage first. Entirely because of C...   Jul 31 2008, 07:24 PM
- - Wounded Ronin   BTW, Control Thoughts made me so unhappy that the ...   Jul 31 2008, 07:29 PM
|- - Rasumichin   QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 31 2008, 08:29...   Jul 31 2008, 07:37 PM
- - Siege   Quick the Mage - a rule derived from practical exp...   Jul 31 2008, 07:38 PM
|- - Rasumichin   QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 31 2008, 08:38 PM) Now...   Jul 31 2008, 07:46 PM
- - Kliko   that's just stupid   Jul 31 2008, 07:50 PM
|- - Rasumichin   QUOTE (Kliko @ Jul 31 2008, 08:50 PM) tha...   Jul 31 2008, 07:51 PM
- - Siege   I think he's trying to be funny. But to answe...   Jul 31 2008, 07:53 PM
|- - CanRay   QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 31 2008, 02:53 PM) Edi...   Jul 31 2008, 08:28 PM
|- - Siege   QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 31 2008, 08:28 PM) I ...   Jul 31 2008, 09:47 PM
- - Stahlseele   QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Jul 31 2008, 04:35 PM...   Jul 31 2008, 07:59 PM
- - Siege   I think we're starting to drift into the camou...   Jul 31 2008, 08:17 PM
- - Rasumichin   QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 31 2008, 08:53 PM) But...   Jul 31 2008, 08:17 PM
- - nezumi   Again though, you don't need to GEEK the hacke...   Jul 31 2008, 08:31 PM
- - masterofm   Lets break this down then. Not all facilities can...   Jul 31 2008, 09:12 PM
|- - nezumi   QUOTE (masterofm @ Jul 31 2008, 04:12 PM)...   Aug 1 2008, 12:05 AM
- - Rasumichin   Yeah, alright, you got me. I'm convinced. Stil...   Jul 31 2008, 09:41 PM
- - masterofm   Very true. When you put it all to the test in a c...   Jul 31 2008, 09:52 PM
- - Siege   Which again leads to the issue of trying to identi...   Aug 1 2008, 12:21 AM
- - sunnyside   Decker would actually be harder to spot since they...   Aug 1 2008, 01:25 AM
- - Snow_Fox   Just to add to the hoot-nanny geek the mage first?...   Aug 1 2008, 02:22 AM
- - masterofm   I was always under the impression that if a hacker...   Aug 1 2008, 05:32 AM


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