The Ends of the Matrix v4.01, Alternate Matrix Rules Options

[evanger]

There are no Catalyst Police or RPG Police or even Fun Police for that matter.

Apparently there are fun police as Frank has been banned.

It's astounding that a former writer who put together a 65 page fan-produced document of alternate rules has been treated so shabbily here.

It's absurd, however rude Frank was at times (and I think he crossed the line in a post or three), that the freelance writers, etc would get into bouts of bickering with any poster on these or any other board.

How unprofessional on the part of the writers, developers and moderators!

[Cthulhudreams]

Who cares. The mods can run the system entirely with arbitarium if they want.

If you wants franks input head over to the gaming den. The only down side is there is less SR discussion there to spark up random input, and some of the posters want to make me kill them, but yeah.

[kigmatzomat]

... the fact that they gelled into a coherent system for me would suggest that I'm not the only one for whom that could happen.

Actually, it suggests nothing of the kind. Your ability to see it as a coherent system is just as anecdotal as my inability. Both could be outliers beyond the norm.

That is itself one of the fallacies you comment on in your sig (parargraph above the Venn diagram).

1) they are the only rules not to use stat+skill.

This isn't entirely the case. I leave finding other counter-examples to the reader.

I'll note you snipped out the rest of that comment.

While drone rules also suffer the same problem, rigging is now a subset of the matrix.

Unless you provide some other non-matrix example, you're doing little more than begging the question, yet another fallacy.

I also believe (again, wasn't on the inside, and nobody's told me) that the rules were set in this way so that anybody could be a hacker. Really. I believe that this was done to mitigate the problem of the decker not being useful anywhere except the Matrix.

I believe this as well, however I know hackers. White hats at Fortune 100 companies enforcing HIPAA, as well as others who work at data hosting/colocation facilities. Several of them are actually at Black Hat right now. To be a decent hacker requires as much effort and dedication as being a sam. While sams need to exercise/practice, hackers need to study so roughly equal in time and effort.

So by that mechanic, a cash-rich goober should be able to buy his way to sammie-dom for equal price. It's hard to make a decker as good as a sammie with cyber for the same cash you can make a sammie as good as a decker.

But that's not analogous since the the agent-hacker doesn't have any personal risk. We should be comparing drones and agents as both are autonomous AI that a rich guy can use as a surrogate.

Drones, thanks to artificial limit of autosofts to rating 4 and no clear ability to improve the Sensor attribute (core to Gunnery tests), have a lower ceiling than agents. Plus, drones require expendable assets (ammo) and are subject to permanent damage.

Unless Unwired either improves drones or degrades agents, the intention (anyone can be a hacker) has not been implemented in a fair and equitable fashion.

I was going to continue addressing your points, but it occurred to me that they have been addressed in other posts,

I'll accept links to posts address comments 2 (skills with little/no purpose), 3 (rules with no obvious use), and 4 (signal range illogic). Or FAQs. Or Errratas. Even dev chats logs. Otherwise you're merely implying an answer exists, which is, yet again, a fallacy.

and that your post, while well-written and containing salient points, didn't actually address the content of the post quoted.

And I was responding to the implication of your comment that only "operator error" could be responsible for people's disaffection of the matrix rules.

[Aaron]

Actually, it suggests nothing of the kind. Your ability to see it as a coherent system is just as anecdotal as my inability. Both could be outliers beyond the norm.
That is itself one of the fallacies you comment on in your sig (parargraph above the Venn diagram).

I would agree that it would have been fallacious to state that my ability to grok the rules proves that I'm not the only one for whom that could happen. Luckily, I didn't. I think it does suggest it, but it certainly doesn't prove it. It'd be easy enough to prove, though, since I am not the only person that has figured it out:

• Aaron has figured out the Matrix rules as written.
• Michael (the other voice on the hacking demo) has figured out the Matrix rules as written.
• Therefore, Aaron is not the only person for whom figuring out the Matrix rules as written can happen.

If it's helpful, I'll be working on a set of hacking cheat sheets, although I probably won't be done with them until after Gen Con. Speaking of which, I'll be at the meet and greet at Gen Con, and I'd be happy to discuss in person anything you (or anybody else) might have questions about, as DSF debates are, at least at this point, fairly futile. I'd be happy to discuss the Matrix rules as I see them, the Matrix rules as you see them, and maybe a bit about logical fallacies and rhetoric.

[Cthulhudreams]

Aaron. No-one disputes that with some interpretation and house rules you can make the matrix work. The only problem is that knowing what all the interpretations and house rules are requires an encyclopedic knowledge of unpublished errata and ninja skills.

Take agent smith: Clear problem in the core rules, so I am expected to GM fiat it until unwired, where it is repeatedly proclaimed there will be a fix

Unwired comes out with a fix, and then literally two paragraphs later it includes the circumvention method for the fix.

And I'd only know that wasn't supposed to be there if I had read the thread in which synner said that it shouldn't be there - there is no published errata.

Also, the question of what do I default to when I don't have the problem has never been officially answered. I know because I ask all the time and never get a straight answer.

So I check the FAQ and get this shit.

Are programs optional? It says to use Computer or Hacking skill + Logic when "interacting with a device," but to use Computer or Hacking skill + program rating when using a program. So can I just use Logic, or is computer use/hacking impossible without programs?

In most circumstances, you will be using Computer/Hacking + program rating. In cases where a program would apply, but isn't available, the character must default.

Logic is used when you are utilizing a device within its standard parameters (Computer) or trying to bypass those parameters through the device's own OS (Hacking). For example, let's say your character finds an unfamiliar electronic device in a research lab. Computer + Logic would be used to identify the device, figure out what it is, and figure out how to turn it on. Let's say that device happened to be a new holo projector prototype. Computer + Logic would also be used to determine what features it has and how to use them. If the character wanted to bypass the controls that prevent the projector from playing pirated movies, porn, or media feeds from unapproved Matrix nodes, he would use Hacking + Logic. If he wanted to take it apart and see how it worked, he would use Hardware + Logic. If he wanted to edit a holo media file, analyze the device's Firewall, or search its usage log, he would use a program (Edit, Analyze, and Browse, respectively).

this is really confusing. Can I attempt to circumvent the log in protocol for a node I have no access to and thus roll hacking + logic? Logically I can if I attempt to circumvent the normal login protocol because I am 'trying to bypass those parameters through the device's own OS (Hacking).'

Wtf?!

I don't need programs to do everything a hacker does? It seems fairly clear.

But what is REALLY REALLY CONFUSING is that it says "You must default when you don't have the program" and then goes on to say the possible circumstances in which things happen

[Bull]

Apparently there are fun police as Frank has been banned.

First, Franks been suspended, not banned. Suspended is temporary. Banned is permanent.

We're not the fun police. We're the anti-fun police. Our job is to stop problems, subjects, and people that prevent others from having fun.

It's like banning smoking in a restaurant. We're not trying to stop you from smoking, we're trying to stop you from bothering the other 40 people who aren't smokers. If you want to smoke, go to a designated smoking area.

The same analogy applies here. If you want to cause problems, there are plenty of forums where they allow and even welcome that kind of "discussion" and "Debate" (and I use those terms incredibly loosely).

Honestly, despite Franks contributions, I'd rather lose him a few of his "followers" than the folks who stop participating or even visiting Dumpshock due to his particular brand of "debate". And trust me, there are people who have done just that because of him and others who've behaved similarly in the past.

It's astounding that a former writer who put together a 65 page fan-produced document of alternate rules has been treated so shabbily here.

You reap what you sow. We don't like to discuss this stuff publically, but since Frank (and other non-mods) feel the neeed to keep bringing this up publically, I'll discuss this publically, briefly. Frank causes problems. He's incredibly argumentative, refuses to accept and allow opposing viewpoints and opinions, and appears to be able to ever "agree to disagree". We have cut him a ton of slack, and have let a lot of trangsressions slide in teh past because he's a very active poster, and does contribute a lot to online Shadowrun. However, he's pushed it too many times, and we've decided it's not worth it. We have a very simple set of guidelines and expectations from our users, and if he can't follow those, so be it.

It's absurd, however rude Frank was at times (and I think he crossed the line in a post or three), that the freelance writers, etc would get into bouts of bickering with any poster on these or any other board.

How unprofessional on the part of the writers, developers and moderators!

So, it's professional of Frank to start arguments, insult the moderaters, developers, and other freelancers? That seems a tad hypocritical to me.

If a moderator, freelancer, or even Developer steps out of line, we talk with them. There have been and are freelancers with warnings. And while most of them will get very heavily involved in debates, espeically when folks question them and refuse to accept the rationale behind a decision made by them, it is very rare that any of them will end up out and out insulting, flaming, or attacking anyone. Folks with that type of personality are given moderator priviledges or get jobs as Developers, and Freelancers like that don't tend to stay Freelancers very long.

Now, if you wish to continue discussing this, start up a thread in the Dumpshock News and Discussion Forum, or PM me. This thread should go back on topic, or will end up closed down.

Bull

[The Monk]

Matrix Attributes
Physical Attributes
When skills call for one to use physical attributes through a VR or BTL interface, you use your Mental attributes instead, precisely as if you were astrally projecting. So while the Forgery and Gunnery skills nominally utilize Agility as the linked attribute, when used through VR interfaces, Logic is used in lieu of Agility. Charisma stands in for Strength, Intuition stands in for Reaction, Logic stands in for Agility, and Willpower replaces Body. When interacting with an AR

does anybody know what if anything Frank was meaning to put after "When interacting with an AR", I think there is meant to be something to complete this sentence.

[Cthulhudreams]

As he points out in the post, I think you're best off jumping over to gaming den and asking there. He's a regular and there is a parallel discussion - mostly about editing as the .pdf file which was also produced there. I'm not sure what the answer is though.

it's not in the previous thread so you might want to consult the (updated) version on the gaming den (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[WearzManySkins]

• Aaron has figured out the Matrix rules as written.
• Michael (the other voice on the hacking demo) has figured out the Matrix rules as written.
• Therefore, Aaron is not the only person for whom figuring out the Matrix rules as written can happen.

{tongue firmly planted in cheek.}
So I guess those that do not, are just dumber than you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
{tongue out of cheek}
Not a good way of convincing others your POV is correct/right.

WMS

[Antumbra]

I had a really long post about how Bull is a power abusing tool with a well known hate-on for Frank and that his and the other mods' double standards and favoritism are insulting, pathetic and equally well known - but I scrapped it, he won't ever get it and nobody needs to hear it again. (Yes, yes - I did just post it in summary - blah blah blah)

Turns out that Dumpshock is only different from Gleemax by virtue of not being nearly as popular... although the community here is generally much smarter.


PS: Aaron, if you want people to stop criticizing you then comprehensively prove your rules work or else apologize to the community for the money you have stolen from them and then correct the problems in a free super-errata. That is literally the only way for you to act with dignity here.

[Aaron]

{tongue firmly planted in cheek.}
So I guess those that do not, are just dumber than you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
{tongue out of cheek}

Yeah, the guy that has an alarm on his PDA to remind him to take his meds every day is a friggin' genius. =i)

Seriously, some folks may have just decided it wasn't worth the effort to figure it out. Like I said, it took me a few times through to figure it out, and I was motivated by the fact that I had a hacker character. I agree that the chapter is more obfuscated than one would expect in a set of rules, but the rules are in there and they really are by and large consistent, if somewhat convoluted.

Not a good way of convincing others your POV is correct/right.

I agree. Fortunately, that wasn't my aim. I was challenged to prove my previous statement, so I offered a brief logical proof. To say that my rinky-dink proof is being offered as an argument that my point of view is the correct one is at best taking me out of context and at worst deliberately misleading.

As to whether "my" way of doing the Matrix is correct or right, well, it's a game. Use what works for you and what you like. My position is that the rules as written work just fine, if you're willing to figure them out; I have yet to see any arguments that convince me otherwise. Besides, I do a lot of work with Shadowrun Missions, and a campaign like that works best with the printed rules, since that's what everybody's expecting when they come to the table.

As I've said before, I'm planning some cheat sheets for hacking (or maybe a full-blown primer on the system to try to make some concepts more clear). It's not immediate, I know, but I think I'll let that stand for my opinion on the subject; I hate duplicating effort.

[Blade]

Seriously, some folks may have just decided it wasn't worth the effort to figure it out. Like I said, it took me a few times through to figure it out, and I was motivated by the fact that I had a hacker character. I agree that the chapter is more obfuscated than one would expect in a set of rules, but the rules are in there and they really are by and large consistent, if somewhat convoluted.

Same here (played a hacker character so had to go over the rules a lot of times to figure them out), but I still think the rules also needed some interpretation. For example there was no way of telling if agents needed to be loaded on the node they wanted to affect or if they could run on one node and affect another. Depending on how you interpreted things, you got two totally different systems.

[cryptoknight]

As to whether "my" way of doing the Matrix is correct or right, well, it's a game. Use what works for you and what you like. My position is that the rules as written work just fine, if you're willing to figure them out; I have yet to see any arguments that convince me otherwise. Besides, I do a lot of work with Shadowrun Missions, and a campaign like that works best with the printed rules, since that's what everybody's expecting when they come to the table.

Why should the rules be so convoluted that it takes "figuring them out"?

That's a huge mark against them to begin with. I had a much easier time figuring out the matrix in SR1-3 + VR1-2. I've sat down with veteran gamers with over 100 years of combined RPG experience with multiple systems, and the only thing close to as hard to figure out was how to make guns using Fire Fusion and Steel for Traveller the New Era and that was because you had to design bullets, and push them through an algebraic formula that cross referenced other formulas before you could make a gun which required another half dozen equations!

I won't even get into my other complaints about the wireless nightmare that was inflicted upon the world by 4th edition. With wireless everything talking to wireless everything and everything being easier to hack than to defend it forces severe suspensions of my disbelief to understand the world that is SR 2071.

[Bull]

I had a really long post about how Bull is a power abusing tool with a well known hate-on for Frank and that his and the other mods' double standards and favoritism are insulting, pathetic and equally well known - but I scrapped it, he won't ever get it and nobody needs to hear it again. (Yes, yes - I did just post it in summary - blah blah blah)

Turns out that Dumpshock is only different from Gleemax by virtue of not being nearly as popular... although the community here is generally much smarter.

*shrug* You're entitled to your opinion. I don't know Frank, I've never met Frank, and if experience has taught me anything, it's that he's probably a pretty decent guy in RL, where ego's have a harder time running the show.

However, I do strongly dislike his posting habits and his attitude. He breaks the rules frequently, and as such has to deal with the consequences. I'm sorry if he, you, or anyone else doesn't like the fact we won't let him abuse and insult his fellow board members for his own personal amusement or to fulfill his ego.

Now, as I said before, this discussion about Frank and the Mods in this thread ends here. If you want to discuss the situation any further, start up a thread in the Dumpshock Discussion forum, or PM me. Any further posts of this nature will result in an Administrative Warning for thread derailment and possibly other reasons, depending on the nature and hostility of the post, and may result in us locking this thread.

[Sma]

There will be a new PDF up tonight, that hopefully addresses the problem some people encountered in regards to reading the last one.

Also it will include some of the stuff missing.

It will be posted in the appropriate thread at the gaming den.

[Prime Mover]

Why should the rules be so convoluted that it takes "figuring them out"?

That's a huge mark against them to begin with. I had a much easier time figuring out the matrix in SR1-3 + VR1-2. I've sat down with veteran gamers with over 100 years of combined RPG experience with multiple systems, and the only thing close to as hard to figure out was how to make guns using Fire Fusion and Steel for Traveller the New Era and that was because you had to design bullets, and push them through an algebraic formula that cross referenced other formulas before you could make a gun which required another half dozen equations!

I won't even get into my other complaints about the wireless nightmare that was inflicted upon the world by 4th edition. With wireless everything talking to wireless everything and everything being easier to hack than to defend it forces severe suspensions of my disbelief to understand the world that is SR 2071.

One thing I will agree with it yes its easier to hack and harder to defend in 4th (Remembering this "Wireless world is still a "new" tech and new tech has it's bugs.). But I've played/run every version of the matrix since 1st showed up in my mail. And 4th edition matrix while taking a little effort to "conceptualize" is seriously easier to use and teach, at least for me. It lacks some examples (which might be in unwired, don't have yet). I've been able to keep matrix activity alot smoother then past editions.

[Sir_Psycho]

I'm pretty happy with the Matrix rules. I understand and share the misgivings about coherence and compatibility with many of the Dumpshockers (and the Shadowrun paperback players who must have a harder time figuring it out without us). I don't mind making a few tests to perform an action, and I think at the core, SR4 has a pretty streamlined system which of course leads to vagaries and confusion if you, as a GM, can't or don't want to come up with a balanced solution. I houserule a lot of matrix stuff, but I keep with it, mainly for the matrix goodies and fun oportunities for creativity (a bonus of a vague system, I suppose).

However, that said, I personally think Frank's rules are full of wit and beautifully and interestingly written. Despite me not changing my rules or my houserules (which I have a bunch of), I always read frank's rules through for the purposes of contextualising the Matrix better, such as his comments on why hackers don't just raid banks all the time.

[kigmatzomat]

I was challenged to prove my previous statement, so I offered a brief logical proof.

Actually, no you weren't challenged. I never doubted the truthfulness of your statement that the Matrix RAW are coherent or even implied that you were unique. Instead I said your anecdotal datum is no more representative of the majority than my own opposite experience.

. I agree that the chapter is more obfuscated than one would expect in a set of rules, but the rules are in there and they really are by and large consistent, if somewhat convoluted.

And herein lies the crux of my own opinion. You agree the rules are obfuscated. That inherently implies that at the very least a rewrite is necessary; maybe not of the mechanics but of the verbiage used to describe the mechanics.

Let me point out with some very simple statistics how badly obfuscation hurts the gaming experience on the whole.

Let's say that 80% of readers comprehend the matrix RAW and find them playable. That shouldn't be seen as sandbagging from your viewpoint and is a generous concession from mine. I'll further simplify the assumption that there's only 1 player in each group who wants to be a hacker.

That means that only 64% of groups (80% x 80% = 64%) are actually able to use the matrix. When a third of a userbase is essentially excluded from what is ostensibly a core aspect of the game, that's more than a sign to take significant effort.

Unwired should have de-obfuscated the rules. I'm waiting for hardcopy to make a final determination but so far no one, yourself included, has implied Unwired achieves that.

[Aaron]

Let's say that 80% of readers comprehend the matrix RAW and find them playable. That shouldn't be seen as sandbagging from your viewpoint and is a generous concession from mine. I'll further simplify the assumption that there's only 1 player in each group who wants to be a hacker.

That means that only 64% of groups (80% x 80% = 64%) are actually able to use the matrix. When a third of a userbase is essentially excluded from what is ostensibly a core aspect of the game, that's more than a sign to take significant effort.

I have to disagree with your statistics, there. You seem to be making the assumption that players don't talk to one another. My first SR4 game had a player with a street sam that didn't understand the combat system at all. A couple of us at the table walked her through it a number of times (thus the cheat sheets were born), and she was able to play just fine. By the paradigm described above, our table wouldn't have been able to use combat.

Let's run the numbers for the paradigm I described. We seem to be assuming five players per table (including the GM); I will proceed accordingly. If 80% of the population comprehend the Matrix rules as written and find them playable, then 20% of the population does not, and only (20% ^ 5 players =) 0.032% of tables will lack any understanding of said rules. It's said you can't please everybody (as evinced in this thread), but I think 99.968% ain't bad.

[Cthulhudreams]

Sure, but its obviously not 99.968% based on the ranting we see here.

No-one played the BBB book without house rules - things like cracking down on agent smith.

Clearly then, it is way worse than 99%. Way, way, way worse than that. So using your metric the quality of the matrix chapter is at less than 20% understandable, probably less than 5%. It honestly might actually be worse than 1%. That is terrible for some professional writing.

Anyway, who cares at this point. No-one is going to be persuaded because its a total divide.

Lets go back to discussion franks rules for those who care, and can everyone else go back to another thread if we just want to rehash arguments about the matrix that are not going to pursade anyone at this junction.

[MYST1C]

There will be a new PDF up tonight, that hopefully addresses the problem some people encountered in regards to reading the last one.

From 24MB down to 950KB. And with working bookmarks. Impressive!

[Seven-7]

I actually got an Admin warning from two different Admins and I haven't been on in like, three days.

Calling another member little miss dev was a direct and conscious personal attack.

But it's OK to throw in some line noise about Frank's ego.

Honestly, despite Franks contributions, I'd rather lose him a few of his "followers" than the folks who stop participating or even visiting Dumpshock due to his particular brand of "debate". And trust me, there are people who have done just that because of him and others who've behaved similarly in the past.

Don't worry kids, just as long as you're the right kind of people you'll be fine. The rest will be dealt with properly.

If I'm suspended I'm Mr. Bane at the Den.

[Pandaman]

I got pointed to this post earlier today and was somewhat flabbergasted by the sheer length of the post; I have to admit I couldn't read through all of it but there were a few points that seemed to jump out as being a bit "out there".

1) Script Kiddy, Hackastack, Drop-Out, and Agent Smith: Trojans, botnets, and proxies are all tools that modern hackers use to exploit flaws in systems and there's no reason it will change in the next 70 years; in fact it's even less likely that anyone would pit the raw power of their mind and skill against computer systems that have evolved to include lethal feedback, intelligent Agents, and other hackers monitoring the system real time. Hacking has never been glamorous and never will be; rather than rewriting the rules to emphasize a hacker's abilities just toss in a couple house rules to hinder Drop-Out and Agent Smith, exploit Hackastack's weakness (one of you, multiple commlinks, multiple spiders defending a system), and accept that Script Kiddies is an accurate representation of how a lot of hacking works (excluding social engineering, that is).

2) Essence: I have to agree that essence has never really made sense - it's always been some pseudo-medical-mystical reason to prevent players from overloading themselves with cyber/bioware; however I don't agree with the assessment that datajacks can be abused to replace practically every other cyberware. I don't have my 2nd or 3rd edition books anymore but I distinctly recall there being rules (possibly optional) for Essence loss due to traumatic injury such as limb loss; this aspect may have been (to the relief of many mages, I'd imagine) removed in the 4th edition, but it can easily be house-ruled in the moment someone tries to abuse the game with the whole "chop limb off, strap on prosthetic" scenario that you described. If 4th edition rules allow for Essence loss from drug abuse then self-mutilation should as well.

3) "Electronic Nuyen: The Ledger in the Sky" and "Debits and credits": I don't quite understand the complaint here; isn't it a good thing that you are able to do this? Rather than have a game system that says "No, you can't stoop to petty thievery and fraud, stick to the game plan" it's rather neat that the team's hacker can potentially live a life of ill-gotten luxury while trying to scratch up a large enough nest egg to make it permanent. If the team gets busted because the hacker or face was committing fraud off on the side and attracted the attention of Lone Star at the wrong time and place, then that isn't a flaw in the rules - that's a life of crime for you. If the entire group decides to play a team of con artists then that can be a campaign in itself, filled with its own challenges and dangers.

4) Equipment Spotlight: RAS Tasers: Why not just get a mage with a stunbolt? Gives players a better chance to resist/counterspell than a "Lone Star shows up, your brains lock up, campaign over."

5) Attribute + Skill hacking: while it does simplify the rules, it simplifies them too much. Pitting sheer brainpower and experience against massive corporate mainframes patrolled by pseudo-AIs and security spiders is an awesome idea, but like cliffjumping without a parachute it stops being awesome the moment you think about which one is more likely to go splat. Skill + Program makes sense in that you're using your experience to effectively use programs against exploits you've learned about through hours of familiarity with the system (or at least similar systems), discussion with other hackers, and experimentation.

6) Brain hacking: Page 189 of Unwired already has rules on brainwashing. I see from other posts that you've already had a discussion on brain hacking, so I'll just say I don't agree either and leave it at that. To each his own.

Ultimately I get the impression that the problem is that you're trying to fix a lot of potential exploits in the rules while making it consistent with the setting at the same time; personally I think the best solution to this dilemma is just to trust your players and GM. The point is to have fun, after all.

[Prime Mover]

Ultimately I get the impression that the problem is that you're trying to fix a lot of potential exploits in the rules while making it consistent with the setting at the same time; personally I think the best solution to this dilemma is just to trust your players and GM. The point is to have fun, after all.

Agree with Pandaman.

[Bull]

personally I think the best solution to this dilemma is just to trust your players and GM. The point is to have fun, after all.

*blink*

<drawl>Yer not from around here, are ya?</drawl>

*chuckle*

Considering it's a game, designed to be fun escapism, where you're playing wacky characters with fantastical abilities and powers in a semi-dark near-future setting? It's amazing how seriously folks take it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Damn shame more folks don't think like that. Here, have +1 Karma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)