Drain for Custom "painting" spell Options

[Inferno]

Note: We use SR3, and I don't see us migrating to SR4 anytime soon. So please keep your replies "SR3 compatible" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd like to make a spell that paints an image from the casters mind onto an apropriate surface (If my master allows it. He might have concerns about "instant" hermetic circles... just add water, err, mana (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).
A physical manipulation spell, obviously, but I have no clue what kind of drain level and TN it should have. Is this a (descriptions taken from MitS) "minor physical change", a "major physical change" or a "minor enviromental change? Also, is this an area effect spell? Does this require "fine manipulation", which would give it a TN of 6 instead of 4? Should the duration be "instant" or "permanent"? Finally, what effects would would more successes and/or higher force have?

[Dumori]

Quick guess. "fine manipulation" "minor environmental change" (could be phyisical but your puting the paint on an object not making the object look like it painted") "permanent" "area effect" for large paintings not for small areas. Dont play SR3 much so just guessing and going form my gut feeling.

[Pendaric]

Ok, don't mean to rain on your parade and yes 'create food' destroys this reasoning but I would not let you have this as magic cannot create something from nothing. Magic can speed up/slow down and change energy from one type to another, move stuff, change existing things but cannot create material things. This is from MitS I believe.
So as long as you have paint to create the picture, then, I would say go for it.
But hey some muppet put in create food so what ever your ref says goes, right?

I would put it at +1(m) though MitS has a table for you to work out the cannon drain code. I would also say the TN would be 2 for crude drawings, 4 for detailed sketchs, 6 for details/professional paintings, 8 for photo realism. Number of sussess up to force of spell denotes quality.

[Inferno]

Well, if I really cannot actually create "something from nothing", I could still make it so I am altering the (surface) properties of an existing object.

Which would point to a physical rather then an enviromental change, so it at least answers one point.
Then again, if I am casting the spell *at* rather then *on* the object, all those TNs I considered before become moot and are replaced by object resistance.

otoh, if I use existing material (paint, colored sand, whatever), since teleportation is the one thing that is *definetly* off limits , I guess we are looking at some sort of telekinesis spell.
It would have a certain coolness factor to just toss several buckets of different colored paints at a surface, and then have this mess start ordering itself into a picture...

P.S.: I cannot find the reference forbidding "something from nothing". Page Nr. ?

[weblife]

Provide paint, summon task spirit with Artisan.

That would be the baseline alternative I suppose. Now you want to do this without providing paint, which as mentioned requires you to alter the surface color of the object being painted.

So the TN threshold should involve OR, to make the material accept being altered.

However, the Fashion spell allows both change in form and color, without rolling vs. OR, so there is precedent for this not being required.

Actually, why not just take the Fashion spell as the template for this new spell? - Instead of using it on clothes, you use it on surfaces.

[Pendaric]

I know I have read a cannon treaty on how magic works but it is not in the BBB or MitS, as my books are copy I realy don't know where to start looking. It might be SR2 book but am clutching at straws as to location.

[Tarantula]

I'd say just start with improved invis, and tweak it to say that you can change the colors of an object, make it permanent, and make it much like shapechange (only useable on voluntary or non-sentient things).

[Inferno]

Provide paint, summon task spirit with Artisan.

It's SR3 and the spell is for a hermetic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

That would be the baseline alternative I suppose. Now you want to do this without providing paint, which as mentioned requires you to alter the surface color of the object being painted.

So the TN threshold should involve OR, to make the material accept being altered.

However, the Fashion spell allows both change in form and color, without rolling vs. OR, so there is precedent for this not being required.

Actually, why not just take the Fashion spell as the template for this new spell? - Instead of using it on clothes, you use it on surfaces.

The fashion spell indeed looks like a workable template. I would increase the drain 1 level (for area-effect), and make it affect a maximum area with a radius equal to magic attribute. Since Fashion only affects Clothes, it seems to include a target restriction in the drain; The question is, would that be "restricted target" or "very restricted target"?
Successes would increase the quality and accuracy of the image. But what would higher Force do?

[hyzmarca]

It's SR3 and the spell is for a hermetic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)



The fashion spell indeed looks like a workable template. I would increase the drain 1 level (for area-effect), and make it affect a maximum area with a radius equal to magic attribute. Since Fashion only affects Clothes, it seems to include a target restriction in the drain; The question is, would that be "restricted target" or "very restricted target"?
Successes would increase the quality and accuracy of the image. But what would higher Force do?

It would be restricted target. Very restricted target would be limited to one specific brand or type of clothing at the very most and possibly one specific piece of clothing (a fashion spell that only effects the Shroud of Turin isn't terribly useful, but it come come in handy in certain situations).

[Herald of Verjig...]

P.S.: I cannot find the reference forbidding "something from nothing". Page Nr. ?

There is none, it's a personal bias of some players to reject a couple official spells and as such also reject a large number of very questionable custom spells.