 The wraiths have come |
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 Dec 19 2003, 08:28 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784  |
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Dec 19 2003, 09:00 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Looks like its time to rock. Too bad I haven't finished my "Damage Shift" research, yet... :dead:
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Dec 19 2003, 09:06 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
That's not the first. Do a search for "shadow people" or any ghostly term. There have been many sightings, some of which aren't smoke in the room.
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Dec 19 2003, 09:07 PM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
5,150,000 entries for "shadow peeple". hmmmm....
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Dec 20 2003, 05:20 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
Damage shift is overrated. If you inflict/take deadly or greater damage in one turn you won't be alive and concious to use the power when your initiative phase comes along.
Also, I have the feeling this isn't the first haunted house story. Haven't there been other sightings? |
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Dec 20 2003, 05:28 AM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Actually, damage shift provides a redirection of all damage for 5 Earthdawn combat rounds after it is invoked. IIRC, an ED round is 10 seconds so you get about 17 SR rounds of redirecting damage.
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Dec 20 2003, 05:46 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
So you're saying that if the damage-shifters head is sliced off and vaporized with a blowtorch, somehow the shifter-fellow is going to be able to redirect it even though he's been dead for 10 seconds?
Sorry but that's a misinterpretation of the rules. Any given damage can be redirected for 5 turns after it's inflicted, the character cannot redirect damage if he's already dead. |
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Dec 20 2003, 06:16 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
The definition of damage shift that I just re-read indicates that it occurs as an immediate reaction to any amount of damage and once initiated allows the redirect test on every damage inflicted for the next 5 (Earthdawn scale) turns.
Yes, there is a test to displace the damage, but it is also induced for every attack that could have damaged the Horror in question. No explicit statement of whether instant death attacks can be directed or not. Scourge Unending does not appear to contradict the old Horrors book, so unless the power is redefined elsewhere, my comment mostly stands. |
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Dec 20 2003, 07:41 AM
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#9
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It caused no violent tendencies, had no violet eyes, and was not a shadowy, indistinct form. It's almost certainly not a Wraith.
~J |
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Dec 20 2003, 09:24 AM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Then it was probably just a slipshade.
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Dec 20 2003, 09:26 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
The errata I just checked says it requires the Horror to activate the power for 1 karma, it is not instant and, based on looking at critter powers, is probably a complex action but certainly a simple one. The only free-action powers are the ones that are always on, like cold aura, not powers that can be turned off at will. This means a wired samurai will probably get in the first hit. If you've got a Rigger with VCR3 you're looking at a character with 12+ 4d6 initiative, almost certain to get the first hit. Damage inflicted before the power is activated can't be shifted. Thus the Horror is completely screwed if he goes up against a milspec rigger who's properly prepared, expect deadly damage from a half-dozen machine guns on full auto before the Horror ever gets his power to activate, which was my original point. This doesn't even really require munching, you can build a starting character to do this. Second problem, the Horror must have LOS or a Mark to use the power. This means that if the Street Samurai has, say, smoke grenades (My character has 'em all the time for keeping mages at bay), you're power is completely worthless even if it's already on. Or a mage with a darkness or blinding spell, or glare from a flash grenade, etc. While those are in effect, even if the power is on, the Horror cannot shift his damage unless his target is already marked. Darn, just soaked up 45 rounds of incindiary ammo did we? Too bad you were blind while it happened, otherwise your shift damage might have worked. Speaking of riggers, there's no LOS to the inside of a vehicle (tinted windows). Gonna suck if the Shadowrunners just sit in their air-conditioned Mobmaster or Ares Dragon and drink beer while the Rigger puts an anti-tank missile through the horror's chest. Oh, and dang, there goes a half-dozen spirits right through the sides to mop up on the astral plane too. Too bad the horror can't hurt the mages inside the van with his shift damage power, guess he'll just have to bleed and die. Even in a worst-case scenario where the Horror has everybody marked before the fight ever begins, the mage has no spells that can blind, nobody has smoke grenades, and there's no vehicle with tinted windows to hide in while you blow his head off, Shadowrunners could still give a horror with this power a run for his money. Simply inflict damage on him before he activates, then stop once his damage shift power is on. He cannot shift damage done before or after the 5 turns of damage shifting. Wait the requisite turns until it goes off, allocating all pools and actions to protecting yourselves from his powers until the power goes off (Have those with good weapons spend the last turn before power goes off aiming) and then blow his head off before he gets a chance to activate again. It'd take an extremely good shadowrunner team to do this, given how many other powers the horror might bring to bear, but not impossible for some of the higher-level characters with double-digit karma pools and skills of 10 I've seen. Obviously this isn't something a street gang could pull off but at the same time saying "Shift Damage" doesn't mean the horror automatically wins, or even manages to kill anybody. |
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Dec 20 2003, 09:32 AM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Spend a karma, initiates the 50 second damage shifting, and each injury is shifted as a "simple action that does not use one of the Horror's combat or spell actions"
That quote may not be perfect, it has been a few hours since I read it, and I don't feel like checking again. You are right, no one power makes a Horror invincible, but some combinations can make them pretty close. |
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Dec 20 2003, 10:12 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 402 Joined: 23-April 03 From: London, UK Member No.: 4,491 |
What's krishcane's real name? Is it Harlequin?
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Dec 20 2003, 11:29 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 28-May 02 Member No.: 2,784 |
My real name.... what a fascinating concept!
--K |
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Dec 21 2003, 04:52 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 917 Joined: 5-September 03 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Member No.: 5,585 |
Hmmm, Someone forgot to use improved invis?
Or maybe too dusty for the ruthenium poly? :grinbig: L. |
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Dec 22 2003, 03:17 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
Well, there's always the ED player's method of dealing with Damage Shift -
Combine his damage and your strain very carefully, & get yourself barely killed. That clears up the Damage shift link. Your DeathCheat brings you back, and your party has 1 round to kick the horror's hoop back where he came from using all your biggest tricks. Worked once for a character of mine... hurt a Lot, but worked. Tried to avoid having to do it again though. This character was _not_ a horror stalker (insane buggers the lot of 'em). |
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Dec 22 2003, 03:38 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 379 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Earth Member No.: 1,274 |
Erm, well Moonstone that's assuming that the Horror is physically manifested. Most of them are astral beings you know, so there's not a lot of damage that's going to get through that hardened amour and immunity to mundane weaponry. Wraiths especially. Just check out the entry in Paranormal Animals of Europe for them. Or the Broken Bow. Now, that's a nasty fragger.
As for using a Horror in SR though, well it'd take a darn sight more than milspec gear to waste one. Besides, better hope that even if you do scrag it's physical form you have something ready to do the same to it's astral form too. They're kind of tricksy like that them Horrors. Especially when they emit Terror/Fear at will by their very presence and your characters are too busy going "bibble-bibble" under the table or running to the hills as fast as their wired reflexes will let them. Oh, and better make sure it doesn't corrupt all of those spirits you send against it and turn them against the summoner. Aside from that and the fact they get to spend Karma on any test they like (hmm, how many additional initiative dice shall I buy for the test on top of their astral reaction bonus?), you might just get lucky. But then again, a wraith could really recharge its karmic battery with all of that concentrated violence about. Tricksy indeed... |
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Dec 23 2003, 06:53 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
is there anybody here who has truly played up a horror to its fullest capacitites in SR? or even ED for that matter? they are beyond any crew that exists in our SR campaigns. as indicated by our herald, great dragons hide from them. it really bugs me seeing people who never realized the full potential of the horrors scoff at them. single case in point: corrupt karma. how would the characters deal without karma pools?
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Dec 23 2003, 07:58 AM
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#19
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Great Dragons may hide from some Horrors. That doesn't mean all Horrors are created equal, as they can and do vary widely in power.
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Dec 23 2003, 09:33 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
Oh Horrors certainly have the advantage in Astral space, that's their home dimension after all. The thing is, they will get royally screwed any time they come into the physical plane. Milspec gear can and will waste their physical forms with little difficulty. Immunity to normal weapons? Hey look, a Firelance. Hardened Armor? Gee, too bad Mr. Milspec Rigger, who's over 10 kilometers away and operating a simple VCD, has a light railgun available on his remote operated tank chassis. Oh, and since he's way out of range of any magic the Horror can suck it up because he's not shifting the damage, he's not able to use fear, and he's basically screwed from the Rigger's first shot. Now, what to do about the astral form? Gee, here's a chunk of the horror's head. Let's take it to the DIMR where a group of 25 initated mages will perform ritual sorcery. . . The thing is, the introduction in SR3 makes a point of stating that 6th age man is tougher and more powerful than any previous human that walked the Earth. That would, by definition, include Earthdawn Horror Hunters. Thus by definition your average Shadowrunner team is tougher and Nastier than your average Horror Hunter team of adepts. The other thing is, most of the people I've talked with agree that a named Horror is about on par or less than a Great Dragon, with notable exceptions. Verjigorm, for instance, is in a class by himself and could take a half-dozen great dragons on and win, but most of the named ones and all the lesser ones will lose to a great dragon. Now consider that, while Great Dragons are a big deal in Shadowrun, people with milspec gear can kill them in a straight-up battle. For instance in the Shadows of the Underworld adventure pack, if the runners frag up, Lonestar will send in multiple HTR teams and kill the Great Dragon Masaru. Again, things point to Shadowrun even now being way tougher than the Horrors had it last time, much less what's going to happen in the distant future. |
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Dec 23 2003, 09:36 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
Oh Horrors certainly have the advantage in Astral space, that's their home dimension after all. The thing is, they will get royally screwed any time they come into the physical plane. Milspec gear can and will waste their physical forms with little difficulty. Immunity to normal weapons? Hey look, a Firelance. Hardened Armor? Gee, too bad Mr. Milspec Rigger, who's over 10 kilometers away and operating a simple VCD, has a light railgun available on his remote operated tank chassis. Oh, and since he's way out of range of any magic the Horror can suck it up because he's not shifting the damage, he's not able to use fear, and he's basically screwed from the Rigger's first shot. Now, what to do about the astral form? Gee, here's a chunk of the horror's head. Let's take it to the DIMR where a group of 25 initated mages will perform ritual sorcery. . . The thing is, the introduction in SR3 makes a point of stating that 6th age man is tougher and more powerful than any previous human that walked the Earth. That would, by definition, include Earthdawn Horror Hunters. Thus by definition your average Shadowrunner team is tougher and Nastier than your average Horror Hunter team of adepts. The other thing is, most of the people I've talked with agree that a named Horror is about on par or less than a Great Dragon, with notable exceptions. Verjigorm, for instance, is in a class by himself and could take a half-dozen great dragons on and win, but most of the named ones and all the lesser ones will lose to a great dragon. Now consider that, while Great Dragons are a big deal in Shadowrun, people with milspec gear can kill them in a straight-up battle. For instance in the Shadows of the Underworld adventure pack, if the runners frag up, Lonestar will send in multiple HTR teams and kill the Great Dragon Masaru. Again, things point to Shadowrun even now being way tougher than the Horrors had it last time, much less what's going to happen in the distant future. |
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Dec 23 2003, 05:53 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 379 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Earth Member No.: 1,274 |
True enough, the 6th World has a better technological advantage for Horror slaying teams compared to the 4th. And a 1-on-1 fight against milspec gear is going to easilly blatter that physical form.
But what I'm getting at is the fact that even if the physical form is blatted sverely the astral form can recuperate and get you later. I'd imagine it would take some time for a team to get to the DIMR and not to mention the red tape and hoops they'd have to jump through before they got around to pursuading them to do that ritual. However, I don't know any teams personally that have that kind of firepower and connections. A wraith is therefore a bloody hard bastard to deal with. If you do have a team of that level campaign, then I suspect that you'd be having a major Named Horror as an opponent. And that wouldn't be a 1-on-1 battle. That's the bugger about possessions - especially on mega-corporate presidents/CEO's. Take Aztechnology for example... |
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Dec 23 2003, 06:00 PM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Unless that team worked for the DIMR...
Ryan Mercury's crew...
See above... |
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