Restricted Gear (Adapsin) & Biocompatability, Do Adapsin & Biocompatibility (cyberware) stack Options

[KCKitsune]

Quick Question: With Restricted Gear, you can get Adapsin, and you still have 30 pts of Positive Qualities. This would allow you to get biocompatibility (cyberware). Now with these two would Cyberware be 20% +Grade less essence (regular being 20% reduced & Alpha Grade being 40% reduced) or is the math done differently?

[Tycho]

Depends on your GM, because:

Adapsin is new to the market in 2070 and should not be available at character creation.

If your GM approve, I would sum up the Essence reduction

cya
Tycho

[tsuyoshikentsu]

1. Adapsin is 10%, not 20%.
2. Arguably, it doesn't apply to any ware bought at creation.
3. I've almost always seen these done additively (IE, 30% total) but AFAIK there's no official policy. Ask your GM, YMMV, etc.

[paws2sky]

Whether or not Restricted Gear would allow Adapsin at character creation is the GM's call, I think, based on the "not a character creation" note.

I'm not sure if I'd allow it. Even if if I did, I'm not sure how many of the character's starting implants I'd allow it to be applied to (if any).


Also, as I understand it, reductions of this kind are tallied before multiplying them out. So Alphaware (x0.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) and a further 10% reduction would result in a 30% reduction (x0.7) to the Ess cost of an implant.


-paws

[Tarantula]

1. Adapsin is 10%, not 20%.
2. Arguably, it doesn't apply to any ware bought at creation.
3. I've almost always seen these done additively (IE, 30% total) but AFAIK there's no official policy. Ask your GM, YMMV, etc.

1. Biocompatability is 10% also, making the 20% he talked about.
2. I'd give them an essence hole for the difference of the 10%. It wasn't there when they got it, but now they have that reduction (or they could just pay surgery costs to pull out and re-install their ware).
3. Additively is the way to do it. I think it was a dev somewhere who said it, but I can't remember.

Lastly... Arsenal, p.90 "Adapsin reduces the Essence cost of implanting cyberware (but not bioware) by 10% (round normally) if the subject has previously undergone adapsin EPE treatment."
You need it twice.

Whether or not Restricted Gear would allow Adapsin at character creation is the GM's call, I think, based on the "not a character creation" note.

I'm not sure if I'd allow it. Even if if I did, I'm not sure how many of the character's starting implants I'd allow it to be applied to (if any).


Also, as I understand it, reductions of this kind are tallied before multiplying them out. So Alphaware (x0.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) and a further 10% reduction would result in a 30% reduction (x0.7) to the Ess cost of an implant.


-paws

I'd say yes, but they only get it once. They then need to get it again later, and then will get the bonus.

[Jaid]

i assume the comment about getting adapsin previously means that they need to get adapsin previous to getting the cyber implanted, not that they need to get adapsin twice.

[jago668]

Just myself, if I was going to let someone start with adapsin. I would let them go ahead and apply it to the cyber they started with.

[Tarantula]

Thats some weird wording to it if they only meant that the guy needs to have done adapsin before having the ware implanted.

[Zaranthan]

Seems pretty straightforward. They didn't want people to get Adapsin and suddenly pick up a giant essence hole where 10% of their cyber used to be. Makes sense that you need to have the immunosuppressive measures in place BEFORE receiving the transplant.

[Umbra]

mathwise I've interpreted it as:

(Sample Cyberware item)

Cyberarm = 1.0 Essence
x.8 for Alpha Grade = .8 Essence
x.9 for Biocompatability = .72 Essence
x.9 for Adapsin = .648 Essence

you can rearrange the order you apply the 3 multipliers but you will get the same number each time.

My reasoning for this is when asked how much essence an Alpha Grade cyberarm costs, I don't say "1x.8". I just say .8...

A 10% reduction on .8 Essence is .72 Essence.


Another way of looking at it is like this:
Why is Alpha Grade Cyberware listed as having a Essence Cost Multiplier of .8 instead of saying it reduces the Essence Cost of Cyberware by 20%?

I think they used different wording to express that you change the Essence cost, and not the Essence Cost Multiplier.
--- And at this point I've just noticed that they capitalize the word "Cost" when referring to "Essence Cost Multiplier" but don't when referring to "Essence cost". Sounds like an official game term for the one, and just English for the other...


- Umbra

[Mäx]

I'm 99% sure that Synner has sayd that you just count all the multipliers and then reduce that from the original esence cost.
So that cyberarm would cost 0.6 essence.

[Tarantula]

Seems pretty straightforward. They didn't want people to get Adapsin and suddenly pick up a giant essence hole where 10% of their cyber used to be. Makes sense that you need to have the immunosuppressive measures in place BEFORE receiving the transplant.

In which case you can just go see your local street doc, and have everything removed and re-installed, getting the essence hole. Even using the surgery rules in Aug, its not that tough, (1-3 hours most likely on average per implant).

[jago668]

I'm 99% sure that Synner has sayd that you just count all the multipliers and then reduce that from the original esence cost.
So that cyberarm would cost 0.6 essence.

Yes this was covered before. You add up the multipliers, and then apply them. So you can actually get down to a 0.2 multiplier, with delta, biocompatibility, adapsin, and cyberware suites. Hooray essence 1.0 for a rating 3 move-by-wire system.

[Stahlseele]

well, at least then it's actually worth implanting it . .

[Umbra]

I'd love it if someone could point me to the book or thread that says Alpha + Adapsin + Biocompatability = x.6 instead of x.648

- Umbra

[Tarantula]

Here
The guy quotes the discussion of the discounts being added, and asks why the suites don't match up. Synner says the suites were made wrong, and it would be fixed.

[Umbra]

Thanx for the link, I thought the math in the Augmentation book looked like it confirmed my interpretation. Now that I know it was a typo in the book, I'll be able to squeeze one more level of Muscle Toner into my Character...

- Umbra