TM Advanced Echo: "Mind over Machine", Whats it good for? Options

[Wasabi]

On pg148 of Unwired is a second-tier Echo that allows a TM to jump into any device even if it doesnt have Rigger Adaptation. It cites 'cameras, locks, and commlinks'.

Whats the point of that? With the skinlink Echo a TM can interface with anything even if its not skinlink adapted so it can't be to hack it. There must be some reason why they included this Echo. Any ideas what its point is?

I ask because I'm working up a SWAT team style TM who will use Mesh Reality constantly and I can't for the life of me see what the point is. Control Rigs only seem to add to Vehicle tests. (BBB4, pg331)

Any clue what the "Mind over Machine" echo is good for?

[GreyBrother]

Thats easy.

Skinlink won't allow you to jump in. So if you hacked a car which for some reason doesn't have a Rigger Adaption, you can control it now through jumping in. Guess how surprised some people will be when their car isn't doing what they want to.

And you save 500 Nuyen per non-drone-vehicle so you don't have to install an adaption yourself. Plus: unemerged Riggers aren't able to pull of that trick on you.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Oh, now there's an interesting thought...

Strip the rigger adaptation from your drones, and laugh when the opposition tries to hijack them.

[GreyBrother]

One question: Which kind of control is "more powerful"? Jumped in, Pilot, Command or Manual?

[Eryk the Red]

Mostly, it depends on which method you build your character for. My group's rigger is best off using Command to remote control them. On the whole, jumped-in rigging has the most potential "power", at least in terms of possible dice pool sizes, but it has downsides (mostly the feedback damage).

Far as I can tell, using the Command program is the most cost-effective (in terms of money spent to dice gained).

The advantage of letting a drone or vehicle's pilot do the work is mostly that you can go about your business instead of focusing on controlling it. The dice pools are rarely all that good, and upgrading drone pilots is somewhat expensive.

Manual driving has no particular advantages over any other, except that you can turn off the wireless controls (that's explained in Arsenal) to make it unhackable.

[Jaid]

for a technomancer, using the command program can beat out rigging.

otherwise, i agree that rigging is certainly the strongest option.

[Eryk the Red]

That's true. The ability to thread the Command CF is bro-awesome.

[GreyBrother]

No, i didn't mean stuff like "which has the most dice pools". Let me give an example.

You have your nice corp Spenny Spider and your ordinary Harry Hacker. Harry one day goes on and hacks into the facility Spenny is guarding, but he is on a quick coffee break. So Harry slices himself through the nodes defenses and orders a delivery drone to fetch that nice new prototype of the Whatevergun and deliver it to Harrys chummers at the backdoor.
In that Moment, Spenny enters his VR Workplace and gets the Info that there is a strange acting delivery drone. So he jumps in and controls the drone to bring the Whatevergun back, but Harry commands the drone again to deliver the Gun to his buddys.

Would the pilot actually follow the order given by Harry? Or are the "jumped in" Orders on a higher priority than simple Textorders like Harry did?
What would have happened if Spenny used his Command Program instead of jumping in?

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

I'd assume an actual rigger always trumps the drone's pilot...otherwise, how would you ever control anything with a pilot score?

[Muspellsheimr]

I would be using Mind over Machine primarily for infiltration of closed nodes. For example - you need to hack a node that is only accessible inside a Renraku facility. Solution - find someone with physical access to the area, such as an employee, jump into one of said employee's devices, and next time he is within range of the node, so are you.

That is, if my understanding of the Matrix rules is correct. They are poorly written, and I haven't played a hacker enough to fully familiarize myself with them.

[Tarantula]

I would be using Mind over Machine primarily for infiltration of closed nodes. For example - you need to hack a node that is only accessible inside a Renraku facility. Solution - find someone with physical access to the area, such as an employee, jump into one of said employee's devices, and next time he is within range of the node, so are you.

That is, if my understanding of the Matrix rules is correct. They are poorly written, and I haven't played a hacker enough to fully familiarize myself with them.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

What'd work better, is going, hey, theres this door I need to open, techno with skinlink & mind over machine touches the maglock, hacks, jumps in it, and unlocks it directly. No need to go through all the other stuff in the way.

[Muspellsheimr]

In a high-security facility, good luck just walking up to a door.

[Tarantula]

Assuming you're with your team, you can at least open doors a lot quieter than say, explosives would. Or carjacking, etc.

[Oenone]

What'd work better, is going, hey, theres this door I need to open, techno with skinlink & mind over machine touches the maglock, hacks, jumps in it, and unlocks it directly. No need to go through all the other stuff in the way.

Wouldn't you get the same result by having Skinlink and the Command Complex Form?

Persumably the advantage is the Immersion Echo you need to take Mind Over Machine gives you a bonus when jumped into a device.

Which means the main use would be say jumping into a camera and then getting bonus dice for looking around with it or driving any vehicle and getting a hefty bonus to piloting tests. And as was mentioned above, it lets you rig anything regardless of if it has the Rigger Upgrade (which means more upgrade slots you can spend on fun toys).

Edit -

No, i didn't mean stuff like "which has the most dice pools". Let me give an example.

You have your nice corp Spenny Spider and your ordinary Harry Hacker. Harry one day goes on and hacks into the facility Spenny is guarding, but he is on a quick coffee break. So Harry slices himself through the nodes defenses and orders a delivery drone to fetch that nice new prototype of the Whatevergun and deliver it to Harrys chummers at the backdoor.
In that Moment, Spenny enters his VR Workplace and gets the Info that there is a strange acting delivery drone. So he jumps in and controls the drone to bring the Whatevergun back, but Harry commands the drone again to deliver the Gun to his buddys.

Would the pilot actually follow the order given by Harry? Or are the "jumped in" Orders on a higher priority than simple Textorders like Harry did?
What would have happened if Spenny used his Command Program instead of jumping in?

Well if Harry was smart he'd have commanded the drone to disconnect itself from the network or even better he'd change the logs so the rogue drone didn't show up as acting weird. If they both kept trying to use command on it I guess whoever has the higher user access would win. Or if they're both say Admins whoever has the better command program.

[MYST1C]

Would the pilot actually follow the order given by Harry? Or are the "jumped in" Orders on a higher priority than simple Textorders like Harry did?

That's the point of rigging - you don't give orders to the drone, you are the drone! When you jump in the drone becomes a replacement body that you control unconciously, just like your meat body.
That's why rigging beats any other method of vehicle control (at least in the fluff).

[hobgoblin]

lets not forget people, that jumping in gives a -1 to tresholds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Oenone]

lets not forget people, that jumping in gives a -1 to tresholds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Which means a Jumped in TM with Immersion 2 not only has a huge DP boost but doesn't need quite so many hits to do things. Nasty.

Does this then mean a TM using Mind Over Machine to jump into a camera finds it easier to edit the feed? A reduced threshold and increased dicepool seems to suggest you could pull off some /very/ convincing fake footage.

[dionysus]

lets not forget people, that jumping in gives a -1 to tresholds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Can you give a pageref? I looked through UW and BBB and couldn't find that rule. Probly just me.

[Tarantula]

BBB, 159, "Characters who are driving a vehicle through virtual reality (whether they are directly jacked in to the vehicle or piloting it remotely), receive a –1 threshold modifier to all Vehicle Tests."

[Wasabi]

Thanks, everyone! Tarantula, your assesement makes perfect sense. By becoming the item in question there is no "you must be an administrator or you'll need to spoof a command to do that" you simply jump in and will it to happen. BRILLIANT!