Arsenal MA: Firefight, Advantages and how does it work? Options

[[jackal]]

I apologize ahead of time if this has come up previously. Since a search for Firefight tends to pull up mostly gun threads as well as nearly every discussion of gun fights on this forum I found it pretty much useless attempting to find old threads.

My questions are in regards to the Firefight Martial Arts Style from Arsenal. The one mention of Firefight I did find in another thread was about how the other styles have four different Advantages while Fire Fight has three (two, with the first one being available twice). Does anyone know if this has been corrected or if three really is the limit?

My second question is what skill would you use for the Firefight style? Reading Martial Arts Specialization on page 156 leads me to believe that it would either be Pistols (Martial Arts) or possibly Clubs (Martial Arts) since Pistols isn’t actually a melee skill and hitting someone with a pistol would be treated as a club. Or would you just do Unarmed (Martial Arts)?

- Jackal

[psychophipps]

Pistols(John Woo Shit) and Clubs(Pistol Whippinz) would work for me as a GM. This way you get bonus dice when you're doing cool two-gun action, diving around with gunz blazin', and when pistol slappin' bitches into submission. Gotta love them stunt dice!

Of course, this is also from the guy who's sheet for his ganger reads: Unarmed Combat(Manhandling)- 3(+2) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Metalmek]

IMO the skills would apply primary to firearms, unarmed combat and clubs.
the WHY ;
-1- one of the advantage gives a -1 back to attacker in melee (from -3 penality to -2) and it's in the ranged combat modifier.
-2- in the description of the martial art it is said that; gunfighter whirling through a melee with a pistol in each, shooting (pistol) as much as punching (club since he got pistols in each hands) and kicking (unarmed combat)

as for the first part of the question ... 3 levels of advantages... I don't know yet... but hey maybe it's a new martial art that is complementary to others ... nothing bars you from learning a secondary style and cumulate the advantage ... Krav maga as some similar advantage

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I have always ruled it that 1) both advantages can be taken twice, and 2) you would go Pistols (Martial Arts).

[Oenone]

Personally I think you could apply Firefight to Pistols or Clubs. Because Unarmed doesn't really work as you're not actually unarmed, you're carrying pistols. Pistols is the primary skills for it though, because the description says it's all about firing stances.

(And the combo with Krav Maga is awesome. You can remove the penalty for firing in melee entirely, which would give a close combat character a nasty shock when they charged in and suddenly took an Ex-Ex round in the face. You can also get the free aiming option too, which makes you even more deadly at a distance.)

[[jackal]]

Great advice, thanks all. I’ve been working to try to recreate a character of mine, which originally was named Jackal and over the years became Pariah. The concept was from when I started playing 2nd edition and it’s evolved over the years.

At the moment I’m bouncing between the Rugar Super Warhawk and the Cavalier Deputy. I like the visual of both these heavy revolvers. The Deputy requires the least modifications to do what I want, but something is just amusing about a semi-auto Warhawk that chambers 8 rounds. But it’s a thin line between badass and munchkin.

[CanRay]

I also include Blades.

After all, bayonets are still useful.

And Vic the Cabbie has a pair of wicked-looking guns with blades built into them!

[Voran]

You get a +1 to your combat dice pool if there are doves flying in the area as you act.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

My second question is what skill would you use for the Firefight style?

Whatever skill it's advantages and chosen maneuvers actually are useful for.

[Mäx]

You get a +1 to your combat dice pool if there are doves flying in the area as you act.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
+10 karma for Voran

[Cyntax]

Troll Ganger: Okay, so tell me again why I have to lug this big fraggin' box of birds?
Elf Technomancer: Because Gunbunny says so.
Troll Ganger: Yeah, and?
50 security guards walk along a path heading towards the building.
Elf Technomancer: We're going to need more birds.

[psychophipps]

My big question is "How can you decide when Pistols (Martial Arts) comes into play?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Only usable when they judo-chop someone as they fire their handgun? Maybe only when they do the 80s ninja flying side kick as they fire?

You need a specialization that can be applied to a usable condition when the character is firing a handgun, people. Selecting "Martial Arts" as a Handgun specialization is like picking "Toaster" for your Ground Vehicles specialization. Not making a whole lot of sense there.

Besides, effective combat use of a handgun is a martial art.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

My big question is "How can you decide when Pistols (Martial Arts) comes into play?"

GM fiat.

Leave the 'Martial Arts' specialisation alone, it only causes pain.

[Mäx]

My big question is "How can you decide when Pistols (Martial Arts) comes into play?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

For Firefight it would mostly gome into play when shooting in melee combat and possibly short range.

[CanRay]

You need a specialization that can be applied to a usable condition when the character is firing a handgun, people. Selecting "Martial Arts" as a Handgun specialization is like picking "Toaster" for your Ground Vehicles specialization. Not making a whole lot of sense there.

Actually, Toaster would be a specialty for "Pilot Aircraft" or "Flight" (Runner's Companion, Page 88). It can only be taken by Pixies with little Fireproof boots and pants. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

[Tarantula]

My ruling would be you'd get your bonus dice anytime one of the advantages of firefight was being used.

[[jackal]]

My big question is "How can you decide when Pistols (Martial Arts) comes into play?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

After rereading yet again, it actually wouldn't make much sense to have Pistols (Martial Arts) as Arsenal says "If the gamemaster allows, this specialization may be taken for other melee combat skills as well (presuming that the martial arts style used by the character trains for such weapons use)."

It however does make sense to me to have Clubs (Martial Arts) and Unarmed (Martial Arts) as mentioned before since any melee strikes made by the style are either through kicks or pistol whipping basically which is Clubs. Unless the final decision was simply to allow pistol hits to be covered under Unarmed Combat, which if I recall was how it was handled at one point either under 2nd or 3rd edition.

I did however look into Krav Maga and it does stack really well with Firefight. Justifying how the runner found the opportunity to learn both could be tricky though. Firefight can probably be picked up as a Tutorsoft from your local Weapons World or even from a local actors guild. Since it's only two years old the number of instructors that weren't still learning the technique themselves could be rather limited. Krav Maga on the other hand has been taught in the United States since about 1981.

[[jackal]]

Whatever skill it's advantages and chosen maneuvers actually are useful for.

Could you try to be a little more or less specific next time....

The point I was making is due to the nature of the style and the lack of detail in the book that it was a little unclear how best to handle the technique.

GM fiat.

Leave the 'Martial Arts' specialisation alone, it only causes pain.

Sorry, as someone that invariably winds up as the GM in nearly every game I've played, unless it's to keep the action of the game moving the use of the GM fiat to me is the equivalent of sticking my fingers in my ears and going "la,la,la I'm not listening". As for the specializations, the point was for fleshing out the character more than anything and trying to understand how the author intended the style to be used.

[DMFubar]

I did however look into Krav Maga and it does stack really well with Firefight. Justifying how the runner found the opportunity to learn both could be tricky though. Firefight can probably be picked up as a Tutorsoft from your local Weapons World or even from a local actors guild. Since it's only two years old the number of instructors that weren't still learning the technique themselves could be rather limited. Krav Maga on the other hand has been taught in the United States since about 1981.

If I remember things correctly (and that is debateable), when the big dust up in the middle east happened, it was Ares that came in backing Israel. Seems that would give more than enough reason for someone to be trained in both systems, whether the character is Israeli, their instructor was, or possibly a mercenary that served in the area.

[psychophipps]

My issue with the Krav Maga description is that Kra Maga is the unarmed portion of the previous IDF fighting system. In fact, the IDF until fairly recently taught that their soldiers and police should carry without a round chambered and hammer down (or the equivalent if striker fired). While their technique does have safety merit, it's not exactly "Drawing a weapon is a free action", material when compared to modern "condition one" competition and combative firearm techniques. And since this was in use during the Krav Maga era....yeah.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The point I was making is due to the nature of the style and the lack of detail in the book that it was a little unclear how best to handle the technique.

Look, all it does is changing some modifiers. If that helps with a certain use, it's great - if it doesn't...

Sorry, as someone that invariably winds up as the GM in nearly every game I've played, unless it's to keep the action of the game moving the use of the GM fiat to me is the equivalent of sticking my fingers in my ears and going "la,la,la I'm not listening".

Just that's what Arsenal tells us about the MA spec.

As for the specializations, the point was for fleshing out the character more than anything and trying to understand how the author intended the style to be used.

You don't need the MA spec at all to use the style.

[Voran]

Hacker Dude: "Why's our gunbunny moving so slowly?"

Street Shaman: "Cinematics"