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> A GM's headache - nightmare party member stating
masterofm
post Aug 21 2008, 08:27 AM
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My GM (Weavermount) was just thinking about what would be the worst party you would have to GM for. We came up with a few... those party members being the high charisma shaman with tons of spirits (sporting mind control and mana static at the least,) the rigger general, a possession voodoo mage with channeling, and the adept demo expert. I was just wondering what people would consider their nightmare rolled up party that they would have to deal with. Common... go nuts!
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Muspellsheimr
post Aug 21 2008, 08:37 AM
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Your group has made a mistake with the demolitions expert. Far more effective & deadly when you combine demolitions & chemtech.

My next character, should something happen to my current, will very likely be said Adept.
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Cardul
post Aug 21 2008, 09:16 AM
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If I were GMing? My nightmare would be...a party where no-one has any useful non-combat skills..of course..no-one would do that in my group..we have a real killer GM...no, seriously..she has this little stamp, and every time a PC dies, she stamps her screen...the worst thing, though, is for you to get "plot protection" or her "special interest"...then, you will WISH you character was dead...
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Stahlseele
post Aug 21 2008, 09:26 AM
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worst group is one that is made up enitrely of "cool" characters like the kicked out yakuza, the ex aztechnology rigger, the pacifist thunderbird shaman eco terrorist, the elven chem/history student looking for . . whatever it was . . his elven sister with the natural 9 charisma and no social skill to speak of and her only combat skill being throwing knives with a strength of 2 . . none of those had a body of more than 3, same for agility and strength . . more or less maxed out non physical stats, but totally wonky skill-sets that were bound to lead to flying lead if they fucked up . . aside from being awesome cool/slick/broody/intelligent in theory, no real utility in any of them . .
guess who got to keep them alive?
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AngelisStorm
post Aug 21 2008, 09:32 AM
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Technomancer takeover artist, who's goal is to work up to owning a AAA one day. Oh, and he feels that the Matrix isn't ready yet for the evolution that Sprites represent, so he has (Decomping?), and that's his only Technomancer skill group skill.

What do you do with that? Besides run a "take over the world" campaign... but what other types of plots can I fit him into?
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toturi
post Aug 21 2008, 09:35 AM
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There are 2 way to give your GM nightmares. To be able to do nothing well. Or to be able to do everything well. Either way would give a GM nightmares.
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Cardul
post Aug 21 2008, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 21 2008, 04:26 AM) *
guess who got to keep them alive?


Certainly not the GM....A team like that in any game me or my GM ran? They would not live very long.
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Stahlseele
post Aug 21 2008, 09:45 AM
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QUOTE (Cardul @ Aug 21 2008, 11:41 AM) *
Certainly not the GM....A team like that in any game me or my GM ran? They would not live very long.

nope, me playing the can-troggy, that's who . .
more or less softmaxed(SR3) combat twink Troll, cyber/bio up to the horns . . but i more or less basically just stood around looking dangerously bored untill there came the inevitable "oh shit" from one of the others and alarms started to go off .. they all knew that the GM would make the combat situations so that they could and would indeed die, if they got caught in one of those without my character around . .
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sunnyside
post Aug 21 2008, 10:16 AM
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While some groups of character are better or worse to work with. Fundamentally it's more about the players being a problem than the PCs.

If they want to make a group with purely combat skills? Fine. You're worthless for Seattle runs, so you're hired out as Mercenaries in the desert wars. If they're good players we'll probably buy some miniatures and have a jolly time as they try to outwit Mitshumas new line of combat drones out in the sands.
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treehugger
post Aug 21 2008, 11:11 AM
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Worst group composition :
- A former Shadowrun and Earthdawn GM. But when he mastered SR only one member of the group was alowed a gun, and runs where about beating up a grocer that did not pay the local gang ... When you GM a "storyline" based run, he spoils everything to everyone and laugh at it ... When you do a classical run, he rants as soon as someone draws out an SMG saying everyone is really overpowered ...(he was playing a troll houngan ...)

- A former SR and ED GM. He never says a word on the background. Good. But he's a rule lawyer. BAD. Each and every roll is analysed, and if you miss a +1 or -1 he rants until you roll everything over again.

- A LARPer vet, but PnP game noob (yes it exists in France). 7 hours to create a character. Hates her background (it changed 8 times during character generation). Dont understand the rules. Each die roll must be explained at each time. That means her die rolls but also all other die rolls.

- Mr Munchkin. Actually lets call him cheater. He cant fail a single die roll. Once he had to make 3 die rolls, requiering 5 success each. He had 4 dices to roll. Of course he succeeded the 3 die rolls (I always consider the players totaly fair players, and never check their rolls only ask if it succeeds/fails.)

- My Girl friend. Dont understand the rules, the game world, and cries when her character is about to die. Good thing i can change the dice results as the GM.

How about that ? ^^ (never had the "chance" to have this particular combination, but at some point i had at least one of them at my table ...)
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sunnyside
post Aug 21 2008, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (treehugger @ Aug 21 2008, 06:11 AM) *
- My Girl friend. Dont understand the rules, the game world, and cries when her character is about to die. Good thing i can change the dice results as the GM.


Ok. The girlfriend can be just as much of a problem for the rest of the people at the table due to the "change the dice results" issue.

That said however, my general response to this and similar issues relating to female players in generally along the lines of:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040623h.jpg

On that note is that actually a problem you're having treehugger? If so may I suggest you not f*&% that s#!$ up. You've got the potential to have a very good thing going there.

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Cyntax
post Aug 21 2008, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (Cardul @ Aug 21 2008, 04:16 AM) *
If I were GMing? My nightmare would be...a party where no-one has any useful non-combat skills..of course..no-one would do that in my group..we have a real killer GM...no, seriously..she has this little stamp, and every time a PC dies, she stamps her screen...the worst thing, though, is for you to get "plot protection" or her "special interest"...then, you will WISH you character was dead...

I hate GMs like that. Thankfully, we have MMOs now.
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treehugger
post Aug 21 2008, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (sunnyside @ Aug 21 2008, 07:19 AM) *
On that note is that actually a problem you're having treehugger? If so may I suggest you not f*&% that s#!$ up. You've got the potential to have a very good thing going there.

More or less.
I have 3 regular girls at my game table, and my girlfriend plays like once a year ^^.
What i'm describing is a nightmare's group, not my regular group (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
She's more into LARPs than table top rpg (like the other girls i'm playig with btw.).
Must be something related to the costume thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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sunnyside
post Aug 21 2008, 12:37 PM
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QUOTE (treehugger @ Aug 21 2008, 08:31 AM) *
More or less.
I have 3 regular girls at my game table, and my girlfriend plays like once a year ^^.
What i'm describing is a nightmare's group, not my regular group (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
She's more into LARPs than table top rpg (like the other girls i'm playig with btw.).
Must be something related to the costume thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


Oh yes. People keep ragging on LARPs, and I have to keep explaining that...

That said I reiterate not to mess this up.

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paws2sky
post Aug 21 2008, 01:23 PM
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I'm going to turn this question around a bit and tell you about my headache GM...

At the end of mt SR2 days, there was only one guy left who had any desire to GM. Everyone, including myself, was burned out trying to keep the old gaming club together. Eventually thing fell completely apart for a few months. Then this GM comes along as offers to run a game. He was a GMing newbie (veteran player though) and we were all pretty jazzed about getting to play again.

His ground rules:
No reflex boosting anything above level 1, and even then, only with a good reason.
Avoid concealed carry larger than a heavy pistol or machine pistol.
No heavy armor.
No heavy weapons.
Brand new characters only.

These seemed pretty reasonable, as they addressed all the major issues that had been burning us out.

So, the first mission, we have out meet, it goes well. Then, we're heading out to the parking lot where we get jumped by gangers. We figured this wouldn't be a problem. Except, we were out numbered, they had SMGs, and, oh, some of them where fraggin' Street Samurai (with Wired 2), not Sprawl Gangers. It went about as well as could be expected. TPK.

So, he apologizes and we forgive him because he's new to this GMing thing.

Next week, we try again. Same ground rules, though he's a little less strict about the reflex boosters (still nothing higher than level 1 though). This time he's decided to run a game set in Tir Na Nog. Unfortunately, he didn't bother to tell us that ahead of time, so we were a typical bunch of Seattle-area runners. By happy accident, I'd made an Elf physical adept with Sperethial of, like, 1 or 2.

Because we want to play, we decided to take the job (as absurd as it was) and fly to TNN. We were supposed to meet someone there to get gear, but that fell through, catastrophically. We ended up on the run from the authorities. We had no outdoor skills. No gear to speak of. No familiarity with the country.

End result was that we did eventually get arrested. It was unclear on the final result, but we assumed that everyone except my character (the only elf in the group) was executed for treason or terrorism or something. My character sought leniency from the court. We suspect, she's stewing in a prison somewhere for the next 100-ish years.

That was the last straw for me. I didn't come back for the third week, but I understand they went for perhaps 3 sessions before everyone was dead that time.

-paws
PS and then there was the GM who wanted us to roll our Trailblazing skill to make our way throug the Amazon to our target...
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Ryu
post Aug 21 2008, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (toturi @ Aug 21 2008, 11:35 AM) *
There are 2 way to give your GM nightmares. To be able to do nothing well. Or to be able to do everything well. Either way would give a GM nightmares.


That´s when you team up: "does everything well" does nothing all day, "low-wattage-lightbulb" takes over everything that is important, including demolitions.
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Stahlseele
post Aug 21 2008, 02:49 PM
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my nightmare GM was that one guy who knew less of the rules than i did(and i specialize in the combaty aspects), and was a total plot-whore . .
ok, in some cases it was a big advantage, that he did not know some of the rules . . for example chunky salsa, the only way i actually managed to live through 3 16M Grenades with 2L damage . . but when he started throwing ruger thunderbolts with ExEx and APDS at us and when we said we'd loot them he simply ignored everything and the trainwreck rolled on, and a STR16 Troll lost BOTH Heavy Pistols in his two at least 1m apart to ONE little drone in one flyby after i had hit something with one of those guns for the first time in that game it got too much for me . .
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Skip
post Aug 21 2008, 02:49 PM
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Like other's have said, it is really the player more than the character, but there are some stereotypes lets see:

1) The Munchkin - aka the cheater, plays a Sam, of course. His build is not possible given the starting BP or karma, he has equipment not allowed at char gen, and will only roll with his "lucky" dice. He wants to name his character Master Chief and has a tendency to spit when he talks.

2) The Lawyer - usually plays an aspected magician. He thinks he should have 30 dice in every pool because of the comma placement somewhere in a rulebook the GM doesn't have and he never remembers to bring. He challenges every ruling by the GM and feels the need to explain himself even if the GM gives in on the point. Games he misses tend to go about four times fast than the ones he attends and he can be heard telling players that he would GM if he had as much free time as the current GM and things would be so much cooler. Yet he never GMs even when offered all the time he wants to run a one-off. Talks with his mouth full.

3) The Engineer - usually plays the hacker/rigger or sniper/adept. He disagrees with the rules, because they don't make logical sense. He will show up with detailed specs for the gun/car/bike/knife and explain why the rule book is wrong. In some states he may show up with said gun or knife, and not understand why everyone backs away from the table. Where the lawyer wants to use the rules to his benefit, the engineer wants the rules to conform to his understanding of what they should be. This guy never misses a session unless there is a con to go to.

4) The Artist - plays the face or a non-combat shaman. Doesn't know the rules, doesn't own a book, doesn't care to learn any either. This person doesn't really want to RP, they want an audience. They like to be very "in-character" though because of their lack of interest in the game the character doesn't really fit into the Shadowrun oeuvre. This person will talk loudly on the cell phone during the gaming session.

5) The "General" - plays whatever is cool and powerful. This person wants to be the group leader, even though both the character and player have no social skills. They insist on telling everyone how to do their job, including the GM. May own one rulebook. Cannot understand why you cannot "call" group leader.

6) Married with kids - no one knows what he plays because he never shows.

7) The Druggie - he does show, but no one knows what he plays because he promptly passes out at his seat. He will attempt to do drugs during the session, and may attept to sell them as well.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) The old man - can be of any age or sex and may play any character type. This person lives to complain about how much better their last game/group/GM/whatever was. May yell at gangers to get off the lawn.

9) The chaotic evil GM - kills people randomly and will not share the "house rules" with the players.

10) Tinkerbelle the GM - Everyone always lives and gets great stuff. Will always allow a "re-do" if the player asks. The Munchkin's enabler and best friend.
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otakusensei
post Aug 21 2008, 03:08 PM
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Doesn't matter what the others play, when someone rolls up a troll with obvious full body cyber conversion and a street lifestyle. To avoid the locals coming with torches and pitchforks (Read: LAW rockets and AKs) the players had to pretend that the big guy was a piece of industrial equipment someone had loaded a personality into and lost the password. The hacker even spoofed a license to "operate" him. A special truck was purchased to haul him around, and a nice sim deck added to keep him occupied so he wouldn't wander off and try to help. He had almost no skills and the social graces of a violent 2 ton gorilla.
I couldn't help but have the first mage they faced panic and manabolt him. Big guy sucked the hit, low willpower and he was down. The groups mage couldn't make the heal with such a low essence and they watched him die right there on the street. The fact that the player hadn't come up with a name yet got noticed, but they took it like he had to have had one, they had just never asked. Then the whole group looked at me like I had hit their puppy with a car.
Worst one shot game ever.
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Stahlseele
post Aug 21 2008, 03:16 PM
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hey, he was the groups mascot O.o
basically the whole group revolved around their "little" brother . .
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otakusensei
post Aug 21 2008, 03:23 PM
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I once had a GM for all of two games who would roll and single d6 anytime a question was asked. He would would then look at the roll and give an arbitrary answer. These questions ranged from "What gang are they from?" to "Are they short range from here?". One die, roll, call. One die, roll, call. Drove me to the point where I told him to leave it on the damn table and just run his game. He did for a bit, an hour later he left for the bathroom. After ten minutes someone went to see what was up and he wasn't there. We were playing at the local community college so we just packed up our stuff and left. When we did we realized that he didn't own any books and borrowed his dice from a player. I never saw him again, but I wasn't attending at that time either. The firend that had gotten me in said one of his friends told him about the game, but no one remembered knowing Jeremy (the GM) personally.

Worst GM? The Ghost GM.
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DireRadiant
post Aug 21 2008, 04:40 PM
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The players choose their characters, whatever the characters are and can do, or not do, the NPCs can do it an order of magnitude better, or worse. There are no problem characters for me as a GM. (Though there may be problem characters for other players....)

There are players I have nightmares about though.
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tete
post Aug 21 2008, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE (Skip @ Aug 21 2008, 03:49 PM) *
Like other's have said, it is really the player more than the character, but there are some stereotypes lets see:

1) The Munchkin - aka the cheater, plays a Sam, of course. His build is not possible given the starting BP or karma, he has equipment not allowed at char gen, and will only roll with his "lucky" dice. He wants to name his character Master Chief and has a tendency to spit when he talks.

2) The Lawyer - usually plays an aspected magician. He thinks he should have 30 dice in every pool because of the comma placement somewhere in a rulebook the GM doesn't have and he never remembers to bring. He challenges every ruling by the GM and feels the need to explain himself even if the GM gives in on the point. Games he misses tend to go about four times fast than the ones he attends and he can be heard telling players that he would GM if he had as much free time as the current GM and things would be so much cooler. Yet he never GMs even when offered all the time he wants to run a one-off. Talks with his mouth full.

3) The Engineer - usually plays the hacker/rigger or sniper/adept. He disagrees with the rules, because they don't make logical sense. He will show up with detailed specs for the gun/car/bike/knife and explain why the rule book is wrong. In some states he may show up with said gun or knife, and not understand why everyone backs away from the table. Where the lawyer wants to use the rules to his benefit, the engineer wants the rules to conform to his understanding of what they should be. This guy never misses a session unless there is a con to go to.

4) The Artist - plays the face or a non-combat shaman. Doesn't know the rules, doesn't own a book, doesn't care to learn any either. This person doesn't really want to RP, they want an audience. They like to be very "in-character" though because of their lack of interest in the game the character doesn't really fit into the Shadowrun oeuvre. This person will talk loudly on the cell phone during the gaming session.

5) The "General" - plays whatever is cool and powerful. This person wants to be the group leader, even though both the character and player have no social skills. They insist on telling everyone how to do their job, including the GM. May own one rulebook. Cannot understand why you cannot "call" group leader.

6) Married with kids - no one knows what he plays because he never shows.

7) The Druggie - he does show, but no one knows what he plays because he promptly passes out at his seat. He will attempt to do drugs during the session, and may attept to sell them as well.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) The old man - can be of any age or sex and may play any character type. This person lives to complain about how much better their last game/group/GM/whatever was. May yell at gangers to get off the lawn.

9) The chaotic evil GM - kills people randomly and will not share the "house rules" with the players.

10) Tinkerbelle the GM - Everyone always lives and gets great stuff. Will always allow a "re-do" if the player asks. The Munchkin's enabler and best friend.



I think 3, 4, and 8 could all apply to me at some level. Though I enjoy RPing my character to the extreme (I get the whole "why are you doing something that dumb" because its what my character would do, yes he would die here because hes not that bright) and would be pissed if my cell phone interuped me (thus why like a movie theater I turn it off).
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jago668
post Aug 21 2008, 09:36 PM
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A gamer that tries to make up, odd, stuff. In one D&D (3.0) game, I was playing a mage with a 19 int (range of 6-7 for shadowrun). I come up with a plan, and he complains, asking how my character would be smart enough to think of that. My response was that I thought it up, and chances were my character was smarter than I was. His response was, "A high int stat doesn't mean as much for our characters. This is set in a midevil level fantasy game, and people were dumber back then." You could almost hear the squeeling brakes as everyone stopped and turned to look at him.
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Stahlseele
post Aug 21 2008, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (Skip @ Aug 21 2008, 04:49 PM) *
Like other's have said, it is really the player more than the character, but there are some stereotypes lets see:

1) The Munchkin - aka the cheater, plays a Sam, of course. His build is not possible given the starting BP or karma, he has equipment not allowed at char gen, and will only roll with his "lucky" dice. He wants to name his character Master Chief and has a tendency to spit when he talks.

2) The Lawyer - usually plays an aspected magician. He thinks he should have 30 dice in every pool because of the comma placement somewhere in a rulebook the GM doesn't have and he never remembers to bring. He challenges every ruling by the GM and feels the need to explain himself even if the GM gives in on the point. Games he misses tend to go about four times fast than the ones he attends and he can be heard telling players that he would GM if he had as much free time as the current GM and things would be so much cooler. Yet he never GMs even when offered all the time he wants to run a one-off. Talks with his mouth full.

3) The Engineer - usually plays the hacker/rigger or sniper/adept. He disagrees with the rules, because they don't make logical sense. He will show up with detailed specs for the gun/car/bike/knife and explain why the rule book is wrong. In some states he may show up with said gun or knife, and not understand why everyone backs away from the table. Where the lawyer wants to use the rules to his benefit, the engineer wants the rules to conform to his understanding of what they should be. This guy never misses a session unless there is a con to go to.

4) The Artist - plays the face or a non-combat shaman. Doesn't know the rules, doesn't own a book, doesn't care to learn any either. This person doesn't really want to RP, they want an audience. They like to be very "in-character" though because of their lack of interest in the game the character doesn't really fit into the Shadowrun oeuvre. This person will talk loudly on the cell phone during the gaming session.

5) The "General" - plays whatever is cool and powerful. This person wants to be the group leader, even though both the character and player have no social skills. They insist on telling everyone how to do their job, including the GM. May own one rulebook. Cannot understand why you cannot "call" group leader.

6) Married with kids - no one knows what he plays because he never shows.

7) The Druggie - he does show, but no one knows what he plays because he promptly passes out at his seat. He will attempt to do drugs during the session, and may attept to sell them as well.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) The old man - can be of any age or sex and may play any character type. This person lives to complain about how much better their last game/group/GM/whatever was. May yell at gangers to get off the lawn.

9) The chaotic evil GM - kills people randomly and will not share the "house rules" with the players.

10) Tinkerbelle the GM - Everyone always lives and gets great stuff. Will always allow a "re-do" if the player asks. The Munchkin's enabler and best friend.

1,2,3,5,8 . . that could be me from time to time . . yeah, no, i don't really know what i want most of the time either ^^
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