Uhmm.... Copyright infringment in Unwired?, Any other WH 40K players notice this? Options

[BRodda]

I was rereading Unwired during lunch when I came across a picture on page 183. It\'s a guy sitting drooling on himself with a bunch of AR screens around him.

The icons on the screens are Eldar runes from WarHammer 40K.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldar_Craftwo...rhammer_40,000)

I know for a fact that one is Ulthwé craft world (eye with the tear drop).

The other ones look familiar, definitely Eldar Runes. Can\'t tell if that are other craft worlds or aspect warriors or possibly Harlequins. It\'s been a while since I looked through the books.

[Starmage21]

bad link

[Aaron]

Would you mind editing that link? It's extremely broken.

EDIT: Fear my Data Search rating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldar_Craftwo...rhammer_40,000)

I'm not sure it's copyright infringement. To be copyright infringement, the artist must have actually copied an actual image owned by someone else, not simply drawn his or her own rendition of someone else's (reversed) logo.

For it to be trademark infringement, someone has to actually claim that the symbol in question is their trademark, and then actually defend it. So ultimately, it's up to Games Workshop to complain to IMR about it.

There are other possibilities, too, like it's just an artist's tribute, or the artist came up with the symbol originally, or they're just saying that Warhammer 40,000 will be around for decades.

[BRodda]

bad link

Fixed.

[Irian]

And why should Copyright be violated by showing a hacker searching Warhammer infos?

[BRodda]

And why should Copyright be violated by showing a hacker searching Warhammer infos?

Because those icons are owned by Games Workshop Inc and not Catalyst. It falls outside of fair use to have them in a for profit book. Its why they can't say people in Shadowrun play World of Warcraft, Blizzard owns that copyright.

Technically now that I think about it artwork is Trademarked and not Copyrighted. Personally I don't care, but I've had problems with people violating my copyrights and trademarks before.

[MJBurrage]

Artwork is copyrighted, with said copyright owned by the artist unless a contract or sale transferred the copyright to someone else.

Logos on the other hand are usually trademarked. Trademark has a different set of legal restrictions than copyright.

For example Campbell's trademark prevents anyone using said logo to pretend to be the company, or from selling or marketing products in a way that could be confused with the soup company. Said trademark does not however stop Andy Warhall from producing and selling paintings of soup cans, and it is Warhall who own the copyright to his paintings.

So probably no copyright issue here, but as all companies involved are game companies, there may be trademark issues.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer, and so my knowledge of Copyright, Trademark, Patent overlap and interaction should not be taken as definitive.

[BRodda]

For example Campbell's trademark prevents anyone using said logo to pretend to be the company, or from selling or marketing products in a way that could be confused with the soup company. Said trademark does not however stop Andy Warhall from producing and selling paintings of soup cans, and it is Warhall who own the copyright to his paintings.

Warhall's art falls under fair use, as it is art for arts sake and it is displayed without inferring that the subject of the painting is anything other than a Campbell's soup can. Also he modified it enough that it is considered to be a derivative and separate piece that would not be confused with the original.

[Jhaiisiin]

Then how is a SR hacker surrounded by Augmented reality that happens to have WH40K in it any different? Warhol sells his paintings, shadowrun it's books. SR != WH40K, and couldn't be confused for it as far as I know.

[Dumori]

I'm quite sure that I've seen those rune in other places. There not as far as I know GW invention but are based on runes on earth. Plus there's always a change that it happend to be drawn by some one how knows nothing about GW and the elder. I'll have a hunt around but im sure the weeping eye has a wiccan (or many its form druidism) meaning.

[BRodda]

Then how is a SR hacker surrounded by Augmented reality that happens to have WH40K in it any different? Warhol sells his paintings, shadowrun it's books. SR != WH40K, and couldn't be confused for it as far as I know.

Because Campbells can't claim that Warhall casues brand confusion because he sell art, not soup.

Both SR and WH40K are both games that are set in a dark future and feature elves with high technology, magic and guns. Not sure if the fact that one is a table top PNP and the other is primaraly wargaming is a big enough diffrence.

[BRodda]

I'm quite sure that I've seen those rune in other places. There not as far as I know GW invention but are based on runes on earth. Plus there's always a change that it happend to be drawn by some one how knows nothing about GW and the elder. I'll have a hunt around but im sure the weeping eye has a wiccan (or many its form druidism) meaning.

The weeping eye is close to the Eye of Horus in Egyptian lore. However it doesn't matter if druids created them, it matters who put in the legal paperwork to claim them. (Gotta love Corpers)

[Johnny Jacks]

The weeping eye is close to the Eye of Horus in Egyptian lore. However it doesn't matter if druids created them, it matters who put in the legal paperwork to claim them. (Gotta love Corpers)

But did they put through the paperwork for those runes? I've never seen them displayed with a tm or ® next to them, so it looks like GW isn't asserting any ownership over them. Further, a single image in a book would be hard to argue as causing brand confusion.

[Dumori]

Yep I think that the runes are just taken from mythology as a few other on that page ring bells and not to do with GW. One is a Shinto symbol or very close to one then other is astrological. But http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ulthwe.jpg is in the public domain not under fair use so I think that it isn't copyright in the first place.

[Johnny Jacks]

Its why they can't say people in Shadowrun play World of Warcraft, Blizzard owns that copyright.

Actually they can say that if they want to. Using brand names in written work is perfectly legal as long as it doesn't stray towards libel. They don't because they don't want to give them free advertising.

Edit: And also because it's unlikely people still play WoW in 2070.

[hyzmarca]

It's a shout-out. They're relativity common in creative communities. By the same token, Freddy Kreuger's glove appears in Evil Dead II and The Middleman once used the alias of Dr. Brown from Hill Valley Institute. It's little subtle things that people won't notice unless they're paying attention but that the fans of the genre will get.

If McHugh's hasn't sued yet for the very prominent shout-out to them, I very much doubt that the Eldar are going to sue for a little shout-out to them. Besides, its bad form to complain about a shout-out. The proper response is to put a reciprocal shout-out into one of your books.

[Rad]

This reminds me of the time a DC comics artist did a scene where a group of villains were fragging tied up superheroes. In one panel, you saw the silhouette of several characters that looked remarkably like Wolverine and a few other Marvel heroes, who were subsequently energy-blasted to death.

Marvel sued. Hard.

[BRodda]

But did they put through the paperwork for those runes? I've never seen them displayed with a tm or ® next to them, so it looks like GW isn't asserting any ownership over them. Further, a single image in a book would be hard to argue as causing brand confusion.

They have the paperwork put through.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...jsp?aId=3900002

and I'm sure that nothing will come from it. It's not a big enough issue. Not attacking or blaiming Catalyst, just caught my attention.

[Aaron]

They have the paperwork put through.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...jsp?aId=3900002

Er ... sorta not really. It looks like they're claiming a blanket "intellectual property" thingy in that document, rather than specifically claiming that the logos are trademarks. Intellectual property covers copyright (the rights to the actual work you produce in the form in which you produce it), trademark (a symbol that you use to identify your company, business, or product), and patents (the right to commercially exploit an invention or process which you created). The logo could sorta be a trademark, but one needs to explicitly say "this is my trademark" in order to claim such.

Note: I'm not a lawyer, but I used to run a game publishing company.

[MYST1C]

Back in hte SR2 days there was an artist (forgot the name) who liked to place Queensryche's logo somewhere in his SR art.
Heck, there's Manowar's winged hammer on the cover of Man & Machine!

[Delta56]

Also, while we're going over the Eye of Ulthwé, the other symbol furthest to the right has also been used on Eldar minis and I believe might even be on their water transfer decals (assuming I can find where mine went!)

[jago668]

They have the paperwork put through.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...jsp?aId=3900002

and I'm sure that nothing will come from it. It's not a big enough issue. Not attacking or blaiming Catalyst, just caught my attention.

Actually if you read that, that is for stuff on the website, not print materials.

[Voran]

I forget which sourcebook it was, but I got a nice surprise when I saw UNATCO listed (pretty much described as it was from Deus Ex) and some of the shadowtalk was by JC Denton (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Angier]

Actually the symbols used in this artwork fall under derivation. They are copyrighted, sure, but as single symbols not as part of a bigger artwork.

[imperialus]

They have the paperwork put through.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...jsp?aId=3900002

and I'm sure that nothing will come from it. It's not a big enough issue. Not attacking or blaiming Catalyst, just caught my attention.

Actually "the Citadel logo" and the "Games Workshop Logo" are the only two that actually have trademark's applied to them. The bit where they say "and all other marks appearing on this site" is just saying you can't copy/paste their website artwork onto your own fan site. It's a pain in the ass to trademark a logo, and it needs to be something instantly recognizable as belonging to your brand, the Nike Swoosh, the Mc. Donalds arches, the Windows... well window. An Egyptian rune does not meet these criteria. No court would allow it to be trademarked to begin with.