So a Sasquatch can't speak or understand spoken language..., WTF? Options

[Ancient History]

"A character can only possess either Magic or Resonance—never both." - p.73, SR4

[The Jopp]

"A character can only possess either Magic or Resonance—never both." - p.73, SR4

DO'H

I stand corrected.

Still, Why was such a ruling made?

Considering what heavy hit BP/Karma vice both parts are it would hardly be Munchkin material...

Hmm Mystic Technomancer...Buy one attribute split it between magic use and resonance...

Possible Sprite+Spell "Analyze Device" could be a problem but other than that...

[Ravor]

Remember that despite the rules being similair, Technomancers are not "Awakened" and Resonance is NOT Magic, thank God.

[Ancient History]

Generally to prevent what I call "Ascendant Masters" - individuals with Magic and Resonance.

[/edit]Totally aside, there were various reasons technmancer qualities were specifically disqualified for Infected characters, including a brief but unlamented debate about the utility of "resonant ghouls," but mostly because a) Magic and Resonance are incompatible, and b) trying to pull the same trick as above with a vampire and your character will have an especially short lifespan - a couple sessions at most.

[hyzmarca]

[ Spoiler ]

It was left open so that a sufficiently determined character could play a TM sapient critter, but that would effectively require you to take the Latent Technomancer quality, lose your Magic rating and any associated powers, and then have your LT quality activated. Fairly large investment for an otaku pixie, but there ya go.

[ Spoiler ]

Given that those lost powers would include Sapience, the utility of such a tactic is limited at best.

[Rasumichin]

[ Spoiler ]

Given that those lost powers would include Sapience, the utility of such a tactics is limited at best.

[ Spoiler ]

At least shapeshifters explicitly don't lose sapience when they lose their Magic attribute.

[Ancient History]

Hey, in the first draft when Magic hit 0 they all died...at least, until it was pointed out that Mana Static essentially became Genocide ParaCritters.

[Tarantula]

Could word it that if magic hit 0 permanently instead of temporarily, they'd die. Keeping mana static just the giant neutering tool that it is.

[Jackstand]

I am fluent in both English (my native language) and Spanish (learned) and neither language is truly logical. It is interesting to note that my English improved as a result of learning Spanish grammar. Don't ask, I have no idea why.

A professor of mine has written extensively on grammar education, with one of the main arguments he makes being that study of English grammar, on which he focuses, being an American, and because of the lack of grammar education in American schools, makes it much easier to study any foreign language. Assuming that you're American and went to public elementary and high school, chances are that learning a foreign language is the first time that you had any significant introduction to the grammatical concepts which are common to most languages, including English.

EDIT:
For anybody interested in the subject, here is one of his essays.

[Ancient History]

I keep telling myself that the fact Shadowrun fans are more intelligent than other roleplayers and not only willing but eager to debate the semantics of language use in fantasy primates is a good thing. I really do.

[Cain]

Some sasquatch have had 20+ years of contact with metahumanity, and some rare sasquatch - some now adults - may have been born into a metahuman community in Awakened lands. We don't have evidence of lifespan, but unless we are talking elf-like lifespans and all exisiting sasquatch being several decades old before they are first 'discovered' in the Awakening, limiting linguistic ability by age is no more reasonable than it is with metahuman characters.

Length of time immersed in another language doesn't matter; once you're past the critical period, you cannot fully gain language *at all*. The most famous case is "Genie", a girl found in 1970, who had been locked into a room until she was discovered at age 13. It's been an awful long time since then, but she still hasn't developed much in the way of language skills.

We don't know how long the critical period is for sasquatches, so it's possible that they have a shorter one than humans do. As far as them being raised in a metahuman community, that would depend on the individual character's backstory. But I suspect that sasquatches who were raised with humans would be a distinct minority.

[HappyDaze]

Length of time immersed in another language doesn't matter; once you're past the critical period, you cannot fully gain language *at all*.

I'm not saying fully - that 'Native' rating that cannot be learned - but rather the levels 1-6 that are typically learned.

But I suspect that sasquatches who were raised with humans would be a distinct minority.

So what? Sasquatch that take up shadowrunning for a career are going to be in the minority too. If the rules stated that only a minority of sasquatch grow up speaking I wouldn't have the same problems as I do with the silly rules that they can never learn to use spoken language.

[hyzmarca]

The way I see it, its a simple matter of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Fsl2xFkCM...feature=related

Koko the Gorilla, who uses sign language, is cool. Gorilla Grod, who can actually speak, is just silly.

[Chrysalis]

I keep telling myself that the fact Shadowrun fans are more intelligent than other roleplayers and not only willing but eager to debate the semantics of language use in fantasy primates is a good thing. I really do.

My area of expertise is linguistics, Anglo-Saxon studies, with a degree in teaching English as a Foreign Language (K-12). Currently working at the Language Centre here (on and off since 2003) at the University of Oulu Finland and continuing on in with my pedagogical studies.

Language acquisition is a passion of mine.

[HappyDaze]

Koko the Gorilla, who uses sign language, is cool. Gorilla Grod, who can actually speak, is just silly.

I hold the exact opposite view (Grodd is cool and Koko is lame), and it seems that you want to equate sasquatch with gorillas - which is not necessarily correct in any way.

[Tarantula]

I hold the exact opposite view (Grodd is cool and Koko is lame), and it seems that you want to equate sasquatch with gorillas - which is not necessarily correct in any way.

Its more correct than equating them with people. Take their magic away and they lose their sapience.

[Ancient History]

*sigh* No, they do not.

[Tarantula]

You're right, I was going off memory and thought they lost all powers. Seems they get to keep sapience, natural weapons, and armor. And just to throw fuel on the fire...
RC, 66, Sidebar, "Frumious
Shield Wall’s legendary musician and backing vocalist vanished from the scene shortly after the band’s first major hit."

Emphasis mine. If he was their backing vocalist, doesn't he need to know what words to sing?

[Ancient History]

Nope.

[Ol' Scratch]

Nope.

Then I guess he shouldn't be considered a vocalist and instead an imposter. Since, obviously, he must be mimicking something he heard exactly due to a complete and total inability to understand and learn spoken languages.

As a side note, maybe you guys shouldn't have made Sapience a "critter power" let alone emphasize it at every turn as one.

[HappyDaze]

So does the sasquatch have the ability to selectively Mimic, or must it be total? That is, can he just imitate one sound or does it pick up the background sounds and everything else too? Can he mimic multiple people speaking/singing at once if that's what he heard? The latter possiblities seem silly, but since some believe that they are incapable of discerning speech from other sounds, it might be possible.

[Ancient History]

Then I guess he shouldn't be considered a vocalist and instead an imposter. Since, obviously, he must be mimicking something he heard exactly due to a complete and total inability to understand and learn spoken languages.

No, it just means his vocalizations aren't necessarily sung.

As a side note, maybe you guys shouldn't have made Sapience a "critter power" let alone emphasize it at every turn as one.

Let me clue you in on a little something Doc: the people that wrote SR4? Most of them are not the ones writing things now. The ones who are writing SR right now like to be consistent, which means not forgetting about rules from the main book just because we might personally have gone a different way. M'kay? So saying things like "you guys" is a bit insulting, because most of the gals and guys writing now had zero input on SR4 to begin with, and we're not looking to do another edition anytime in the foreseeable future in which to try out our own ideas as regards basic rules for y'all to grill us on. So if you're unhappy that Sapience is currently classified as a critter power, I and the current crop of freelancers are most definitely not the ones to voice your complaint to.

[Tarantula]

The acappella sasquatch?

[Chrysalis]

You know I just realised something. Sasquatch have the adept power Voice Control as their racial power. Page 189 in your hymnal.

[Ancient History]

The acappella sasquatch?

The a lingua sasquatch.