So a Sasquatch can't speak or understand spoken language..., WTF? Options

[Wesley Street]

Fine, synthetic intelligence inside the printer copies the stick man perfectly. Did the AI make his own art? Or is it just a copy of the art the person who drew it did?

As I understand Runner's Companion, A.I.s are sentient so the same logic I've used applies. There's still an intelligence and a creative reason behind the imitation, despite the medium and who creates it. Many contemporary artists don't even touch the work they create. They just direct others.

[Jackstand]

Then I guess he shouldn't be considered a vocalist and instead an imposter. Since, obviously, he must be mimicking something he heard exactly due to a complete and total inability to understand and learn spoken languages.

As a side note, maybe you guys shouldn't have made Sapience a "critter power" let alone emphasize it at every turn as one.

I don't think that, really, there's any problem with sapience being a critter power, at all. Critter powers are the things which distinguish any particular non-metahuman life form from the basic critter template, which is, essentially, attributes and skills, and is not sapient. If they didn't make sapience a critter power, they would, either have to include it in the flavor text regarding each individual critter type, which, I'll admit, isn't so terrible, but there are probably people who wouldn't read it, and just skip to the bullet points in the power list below, or make the critter baseline sapient, with non-sapience a critter power, and that just doesn't make sense at all.

[Tarantula]

As I understand Runner's Companion, A.I.s are sentient so the same logic I've used applies. There's still an intelligence and a creative reason behind the imitation, despite the medium and who creates it. Many contemporary artists don't even touch the work they create. They just direct others.

So the fact that its the exact same doesn't matter? If I take someones drawing to a xerox machine, and copy it, and then put my name on it, won't I get hit with copyright laws? Doesn't that mean it isn't my own art?

[Jackstand]

As I understand Runner's Companion, A.I.s are sentient so the same logic I've used applies. There's still an intelligence and a creative reason behind the imitation, despite the medium and who creates it. Many contemporary artists don't even touch the work they create. They just direct others.

John Cage created a computer program based on I Ching to write music for him, endeavoring to remove from his compositions any personal involvement.

[Wesley Street]

So the fact that its the exact same doesn't matter? If I take someones drawing to a xerox machine, and copy it, and then put my name on it, won't I get hit with copyright laws? Doesn't that mean it isn't my own art?

No, the fact that it's the exact same doesn't matter. Yes, you can take a drawing to a Xerox machine, copy it, and put your name on it and call it art. You may or may not get hit with an infringement lawsuit depending on if you claim the idea is yours and yours alone. I don't know how the law works in that instance. It may only matter if you try to sell the art commercially but again, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know all the details of free-usage. Anyway, the law and pure art don't often play well together. And museums who show this kind of work usually do their homework and, on the label tags, state the piece's title and the artist and how it was made and from where the "original" art was sourced.

Duchamp found a urinal, signed his name on it and called it art. It's what's referred to as found art. I personally don't like it but it's interesting discussion material. And I'm not going to say it isn't art.

[Tarantula]

Ok, we're getting a little off topic here. I am now curious who would and wouldn't let a sasquatch mimic speech from his linguasoft and thus be able to talk to people, but still have to have the linguasoft translate what they say into sign for him to understand them.

[MJBurrage]

If a Sasquatch had some form of DNI (implant or trodes) than a device could interpret what they want to communicate without the need for AR gloves, and play back a generic voice (via an earbud) that could be mimiced as speech.

[Tarantula]

If a Sasquatch had some form of DNI (implant or trodes) than a device could interpret what they want to communicate without the need for AR gloves, and play back a generic voice (via an earbud) that could be mimiced as speech.

Exactly! In fact, it could even play back the generic voice through DNI and a sim module as a voice in their head that they hear. No need for earphones!

[hobgoblin]

at that point, just strap a speaker to his chest...

[Tarantula]

That makes it less natural. I'm sure the computers in SR4 are fancy enough that they could make him a realistic sounding voice that he could speak with.

[HappyDaze]

but still have to have the linguasoft translate what they say into sign for him to understand them.

Or text? Sasquatch don't really have a limit on reading too, do they?

[hyzmarca]

I don't think that, really, there's any problem with sapience being a critter power, at all. Critter powers are the things which distinguish any particular non-metahuman life form from the basic critter template, which is, essentially, attributes and skills, and is not sapient. If they didn't make sapience a critter power, they would, either have to include it in the flavor text regarding each individual critter type, which, I'll admit, isn't so terrible, but there are probably people who wouldn't read it, and just skip to the bullet points in the power list below, or make the critter baseline sapient, with non-sapience a critter power, and that just doesn't make sense at all.

Or just slightly expand the stat block, as was done in previous editions.

[hobgoblin]

That makes it less natural. I'm sure the computers in SR4 are fancy enough that they could make him a realistic sounding voice that he could speak with.

why worry about real? we are talking about something thats about 3 meter tall and covered in fur...

the least people will worry about is his ability to sound natural when speaking...

[Tarantula]

Yeah, but if he sounds like an old out of sync robot, its gonna cause issues.

And from the fluff, sasquatches have been in culture for quite a while now.

[Ol' Scratch]

Or text? Sasquatch don't really have a limit on reading too, do they?

If you go by Runner's Companion they do. Their commlinks translate to and from sign language for them. Apparently, they even have trouble learning non-hand gesture symbols taken from a spoken language.

[Tarantula]

Yeah, thus the trodes pick up what signs they want to sign, plays it as sound for them in their head to mimic, and then does the opposite with what they hear and translates it into visual sign in their head. Functionally, all they need is a good linguasoft and they can talk with everyone else just fine. And they'd have perfect grammar and such to boot!

[HappyDaze]

If you go by Runner's Companion they do. Their commlinks translate to and from sign language for them. Apparently, they even have trouble learning non-hand gesture symbols taken from a spoken language.

This is certainly true if the sasquatch doesn't know how to read/write the tongue in question, but it doesn't really come out and say that they can't learn to read/write... or, at least, I don't think that it does.

[Roiben]

Sasquatch don't speak a language, they sign language, they obviously don't have the capacity to link the sounds they make into a fluent & functional language. They use sounds for warnings, to scare threats & the like. They use sounds to hunt. Why does it need to have a spoken language when it signs? It just can't speak. So it mimics, but it doesn't apply meaning to the sounds it mimics.

[Tarantula]

Still, theres no reason it can't have the linguasoft show it what to mimic to make the humans understand, and then have it translate what is heard into the sign so the sasquatch can understand.

[HappyDaze]

they obviously don't have the capacity to link the sounds they make into a fluent & functional language

The argument is that they obviously do have such a capacity. Thanks for reading the thread before posting.

[Tarantula]

The argument is that they obviously do have such a capacity. Thanks for reading the thread before posting.

By all rights, they should, but they're magical, and they don't. Oh well. Magic > logic.

[Ancient History]

By all rights, they should, but they're magical, and they don't. Oh well. Magic > logic.

Well, there is the little fact that no one as yet has been able to come up with a reasonable counterargument to the various arguments supporting the positions in the book and against your position.

Or, to be blunt: your logic fails.

[Ol' Scratch]

This is certainly true if the sasquatch doesn't know how to read/write the tongue in question, but it doesn't really come out and say that they can't learn to read/write... or, at least, I don't think that it does.

Reading and writing is a specialization of a language, not a separate skill.

[Tarantula]

Well, there is the little fact that no one as yet has been able to come up with a reasonable counterargument to the various arguments supporting the positions in the book and against your position.

Or, to be blunt: your logic fails.

Who said it was my logic? I just said its magic, the end, you don't get to argue.

[Ancient History]

I wrote the bloody thing. I do damn well too get to argue.