While you were out...and became possessed..., On the matrix and the astral plane... Options

[The Jopp]

The mind of the vessel remains in
whatever state it was when possession began;
if conscious, it becomes an impotent witness
locked inside its own body for the duration

What exactly happens to the following three people when they become possessed.

mage on the astral plane getting his body stolen by a possessing spirit
hacker in hotsim/VR out on the matrix and his body is possessed by a spirit
technomancer in VR out on the matrix with his persona and is possessed by the spirit.

Basically, since a mage is locked out of his body shouldn't the same apply to the other two as they have already accessed Resonance or activated their commlinks...

A hacker would essentially become an E-Ghost for the duration of the possession unable to get back into his body as A: The spirit cannot control DNI controlled hardware like a commlink to force the hacker back into his body and B: the hacker cannot force himself back into body without becoming a prisoner.

Alternatively a hacker due to access to hardware MIGHT access DNI ware and switch between helpless watching and hacking.

Thoughts?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Interesting.

Spirits can't handle DNI, the mind of the victim still is there... so, theoretically, it could use DNI.
Nothing like calling the Ghostbusters with an internal commlink: "Help, I'm possessed!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If it doesn't, it's persona just would go idle - hackers are not really 'out there' and neither are technomancers.

[Steampunk]

Basically, since a mage is locked out of his body shouldn't the same apply to the other two as they have already accessed Resonance or activated their commlinks...

A hacker would essentially become an E-Ghost for the duration of the possession unable to get back into his body as A: The spirit cannot control DNI controlled hardware like a commlink to force the hacker back into his body and B: the hacker cannot force himself back into body without becoming a prisoner.

No, sorry, I think that's nonsense. A hacker does never "leave" his body behind. All the inputs from the matrix go INTO his brain and only signals get out there. When projecting astrally, some part of the mage REALLY leaves the body, but this isn't the case with hackers in VR.

VR is just much better TV, it goes directly into your brain. But that doesn't mean, that you are inside the TV - the TV is inside YOU.

Imho, an E-Ghost can always just be a digital copy, nothing more.

[The Jopp]

No, sorry, I think that's nonsense. A hacker does never "leave" his body behind. All the inputs from the matrix go INTO his brain and only signals get out there. When projecting astrally, some part of the mage REALLY leaves the body, but this isn't the case with hackers in VR.

VR is just much better TV, it goes directly into your brain. But that doesn't mean, that you are inside the TV - the TV is inside YOU.

Imho, an E-Ghost can always just be a digital copy, nothing more.

Sorry, i was being unclear. I didn't mean that the hacker left his body in teh literal sense but part of his mind is not "active" with the rest of the body - its communicating with the commlink.

The main thing is that the DNI is "ON" and the Commlink is "ON" sending signals to the part of the brain that is "Activated" while working on the matrix. The spirit cannot disconnect DNI or affect any DNI controlled ware. Can the hacker then control any DNI connected parts that are part of his PAN?

These "mental" controls of the matrix is something a spirit never even touches as it doesn't use the hosts brain. And since the description is that the "state of mind" of the host is as it was during possession one starts to wonder if the poor sod isn't "stuck" in Virtual Reality and/or hotsim whils under possession.

[crizh]

These "mental" controls of the matrix is something a spirit never even touches as it doesn't use the hosts brain. And since the description is that the "state of mind" of the host is as it was during possession one starts to wonder if the poor sod isn't "stuck" in Virtual Reality and/or hotsim whils under possession.

Pity the poor projecting mage then. He's got Magic hours to get his body back or he will simply cease to exist and the spirit gets to keep his body indefinitely...

[The Jopp]

Pity the poor projecting mage then. He's got Magic hours to get his body back or he will simply cease to exist and the spirit gets to keep his body indefinitely...

Yea, while the hacker can subscribe to his cybereyes and watch his life pass by like a movie...not much better as the latter is a slow walk into madness...

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Actually, the victim (if conscious) is always aware of what happens as per quote.

[The Jopp]

Actually, the victim (if conscious) is always aware of what happens as per quote.

Well, the question is more if the concious person can switch on/off his/her DNI setting on the commlink to log on-off while possessed...

Can they even log out from hotsim if they loose command over their body and become a mental bystander in their own mind? Or can they still command DNI equipment?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Well, the only thing sure is that the spirit can control it.

In fact, even p. 103 notes that the posessed character is completly aware and might even communicate with the spirit.

[The Jopp]

In fact, even p. 103 notes that the posessed character is completly aware and might even communicate with the spirit.

I think this is only between a mage and their summoned spirit, I cannot find a clear reference where an unwilling victim can do it.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

It's suggested for other characters and friendly spirits, too... and unfriendly spirits won't listen anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[The Jopp]

... and unfriendly spirits won't listen anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A very good point...

Or they might listen and just snicker... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Dumori]

Your yell at you to shut up and stab its self...

Don't piss some one controlling your body off. they might up off a building and then lave you there.

[crizh]

Your yell at you to shut up and stab its self...

Don't piss some one controlling your body off. they might up off a building and then lave you there.

I have always thought that Possession Mages shouldn't waste time Possessing themselves. They should Possess their opposition...

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

I have always thought that Possession Mages shouldn't waste time Possessing themselves. They should Possess their opposition...

What, haven't you seen the channeling rules? Glass cannon to main battle tank in one easy initiation.

[Rasumichin]

What, haven't you seen the channeling rules? Glass cannon to main battle tank in one easy initiation.

Just make sure you have enough bound spirits at hand to do both.
And bring one for the sam along, too.
What's a better tank than a houngan posessed by a high-force guardian spirit?
A cybered troll posessed by a high-force guardian spirit (okay, he lacks that "glass cannon inside" feature, but he'll be next to unbreakable).
Just be sure to have the reflex enhancement turned on beforehand.

Hm...if you lend the spirit's services to the troll, can he give the spirit orders while possesed?
I'd think so.

[Hound]

DNI = direct neural interface. Neurons are part of the body, they just happen to be the part that controls your mind. A spirit cannot access these things, not because it doesn't not control the body but because the workings of DNI are not clear to the spirit. The hacker would not be able to control any of his DNI gear, because to do so he would have to make his neurons fire, and he cannot control said neurons. Unlike magic, DNI things are not directly connected to the "soul" of the hacker. And in the end, the "Soul" is the only thing that a person who has been forced out of their body retains.

So, if a hacker got possessed while in VR, I would perhaps give him minuses to resist it, not quite the auto-possession of unconscious targets, but still, he is distracted and what not. He would immediately lose control of all his gear, upon failing the test, and would be forced into the astral plane, as per the rules for regular possession, as I understand them

As for technomancers, I'm not too sure, but I expect it would be similar. Resonance and magic are not the same, as far as we know they're not even similar. The matrix world does not exist on the astral planes, therefore it can be assumed that a technomancer's "soul" is basically the same as anyone else's, as far as spirits/astral plane are concerned.

[Da9iel]

I agree with your first paragraph, but I see no reason to punish VR hackers/technomancers any more than someone else concentrating on something else. They are still "in" their body after all. And only certain (nasty) free spirits push the victim into astral projection upon possession. Usually the "soul" is just locked into a little box inside the mind or some such thing.