Magic Residue, Detecting permanent spell traces Options

[Seidaku]

I understand how spell signatures work. Even without erasing them, they should disappear within (spell's force) hours, correct? Does this mean, then, that an action such as, for example, mindprobe has no lasting effects upon the subject? If someone had such a spell cast upon them repeatedly, even, is there no way to detect such a thing after the fact? How about permanent spells, such as heal? Alter memory? Is there any way to find out that such magic has been performed upon the subject, and by who?

[Sphynx]

No.

Once a signature is gone, there is no canonical way of determining who created a spell effect (unless it is sustained in some manner, such as via Tattoo'ing or Quickening, of course)

Sphynx

[Seidaku]

[toturi]

Off hand? No specific magic-based or astral method I can think of.

But I think the mental programming rules in CC can detect mental tempering even if it is magic based.

[spotlite]

If the person had been mind probed and was aware of it(even if only peripherally), and for whatever reason couldn't now answer questions (unconcious but still alive) then another mind probe looking specifically for it might find it. But no, in terms of magically detecting something has been done, no. Sorry. maybe if a preserve spell had been cast.

However, it is worth bearing in mind - in your game, as this is a GM call and not canon - that it is known for certain that areas where frequent and similar magical activity occur can gain in magical power, and that it is obvious to Astral characters if they observe such a place. Equally things can become corrupt, hazy, static-filled, and otherwise different from the norm enough for a mage to say 'ooh! background count'. It is not such a great leap to imagine that the same thing can happen to a person given enough exposure. And I mean a LOT more than even your average shadowrunner experiences. You might only be able to tell 'well, its an effect of lots of sorcery', or 'he's spent a lot of time with spirits', rather than being able to tell a mind probe has been used recently unless someone had a lot of successes (say, into double figures), but its all I can think of. You could rule I suppose, if an individual spell was powerful enough, that a good Psychometry metamagic reading might provide information to narrow it down, as you more or less are reading psychic impressions from the object, magical 'echoes' as opposed to the actual living aura.

hth.

[Sunday_Gamer]

It is a valid problem, meaning: How does one detect that Bob had his memory altered 3 days ago? Can it be done?

With current resources, no, it cannot.

They were however kind enough to leave us spell design rules.
It might be worth the time to consider using a detect spell, but how to define it?

Let's try detect magical tampering: We'd have to work out a whole successes vs results chart for it of course but let's instead look at what it might notice.
It's designed to detect if magic was used to alter the subject, which could be many many spells, no doubt rolls would be involved, but it's conceivably one way to do it.

One might also argue that a more powerful alter memory spell could "fix" the damage, and I would agree, but that still does not detect it. Could we simply allow an existing spell the option to scan for alterations? If so which spell?

Mind probe would be the best choice. So arguably, a good mind probe and alter memory would be all that is required.

I guess, in the end, the important part is that in terms of detection, you are no longer looking for traces of the spell, since that faded long ago, but you instead look for traces of it's effect(s).

I think I'd allow a good probe/alter combo to potentially detect and repair altered memories.

Sunday


and yes, I changed my mind as I was writing and thinking =) Started with a no, ended with a yes...uluvit.

[Bearclaw]

So, would you use the same combo to detect/correct Laes damage?

[Ancient History]

Laes physically removes the memories. No getting them back. Which is why I always make my character immune to it :)

You can see altered memories (magical or otherwise) in the aura, but not erased memories (unless due to some physical trauma, i.e. a large object impact the head, which would be visible as an injury.

[kevyn668]

[Bearclaw]

It's a 3 point edge.

[Ancient History]

Or some genetech.

[Sunday_Gamer]

My mind is racing as I try to figure out what Laes is...and I'm drawing a blank. I'd like to use one of my lifelines and ask the audience...

Wassa laes?

Sunday.

[toturi]

Laes = nice chemical that makes u forget... + instant no saving throw knockout potion if you fail save to forget.

[Ancient History]

Check out this page, scroll down, and look under "Laes." Also, check under "Laesal."

[Sunday_Gamer]

Ouchies, but that stuff sounds rarer than Pope poop!

I suddenly feel absosmahingly delicious about my little quirk of never eating or drinking anything other than that which I summon.

But ya it says pretty clearly there is no known cure, detecting it's effect might however be possible, but there wouldn't be a damned thing (known) that you could do about it.

Sunday