IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Mages for Dummies
SpasticTeapot
post Sep 12 2008, 05:34 AM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 560
Joined: 21-December 04
Member No.: 6,893



Since I'm the only one in the group with even a pathetic grasp of the SR4 system, I figure that playing a basic combat character should be left to someone else. Instead, I figure I'll take a crack at the specialist of splash damage, the mage. I only played one for a bit in a demo, but I must say that it was a hoot being able to take out an entire squad of gangers - intended to delay our entire party - with a minor distraction and a heavy-duty stun spell.

I am not, however, too familiar with the rules. I'm very keen on the firepower end of magic, but having a high charisma would be a major bonus, especially if we can't find someone to play a face - hence, an elf shaman seems like the way to go. Can anyone make some recommendations for an effective, balanced mage build?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ol' Scratch
post Sep 12 2008, 05:41 AM
Post #2


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Validating
Posts: 7,999
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,890



The sample characters are a good starting ground. By and large they're not very optimized, but they're effective if you're in a "street level" game. If your group tends to prefer the more "seasoned professional" types, well, the sample characters are still a good place to look.

Basically, I usually start by picking out my essential skills and what spells/spirits I want to focus on. Then I'll look for a tradition (assuming I didn't have one as part of my original concept, which I usually do) that fits in and... well, just go from there.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cain
post Sep 12 2008, 06:09 AM
Post #3


Grand Master of Run-Fu
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,840
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Tir Tairngire
Member No.: 178



Few pointers:

Max your Edge! Hard or soft, your choice, but raise your Edge as far as you can. In addition to the normal uses, it removes the success cap on spells. You can use more successes than your Force, something you can't normally do.

Seriously consider an Increase Charisma spell, and definitely try to get Improved Reflexes and the highest Force sustaining focus you can. Both spells will be very useful to you, and work much better in a sustaining focus.

Banishing is next to worthless, so don't pick it up. This also means: "Don't buy the conjuring group!" If you have to fight a spirit, use a manabolt. Buy the other skills up, and specialize if you can.

Likewise, Ritual Sorcery will not be useful to you for a while. You may want to consider not picking it up at all.

Ask your GM if you can customize your spirit list. The spirits in SM have new and useful powers, and might fit your concept better. You can still be a shaman.

Mentor Spirits can be useful, but they're a double-edged sword. Consider your choice of mentor spirit carefully. Unlike previous editions of Shadowrun, Mentor Spirits aren't mandatory for shamans. If you can't find a choice you like, feel free to go without.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glyph
post Sep 12 2008, 06:33 AM
Post #4


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,116
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,449



For a mage face, you are going to have to min-max a bit, and sacrifice in a few areas - not to powergame, but simply because a mage face is trying to do two jobs that are both pretty expensive, build-point wise.

Attributes - your Charisma and Willpower are going to be soft-maxed. They are both your Drain Attributes and the two primary Attributes of a face. Body, Reaction, and Intuition will be about average, and Agility, Strength, and Logic are going to have to be dump stats. Magic will be soft-maxed, but as useful as Edge is, it is not essential, so it will be minimal to start with. I like high Edge, but any time you do a dual-specialty type of character, there will not be enough points for it.

Qualities - Dragonslayer is a the best mentor spirit for a mage face, giving combat spell bonuses and a bonus to a social skill (Seductress has disadvantages that are too crippling), and you will want first impression. And, of course, magician.

Skills - the Influence group, of course, along with some minimal Intimidation. For magic, get spellcasting, counterspelling, and summoning. Binding and ritual sorcery can be picked up later, and banishing is just about worthless. The minimum other essential skills.

Spells - a pretty bare-bones assortment to start with, but enough to be versatile. Avoid mental manipulations - they can cause too much ill will, and give you a bad rep, if you use them in conjunction with your face duties. They are more acceptable used for other purposes, but can be picked up later.

Gear - a power focus and a counterspelling focus. Wait until after char-gen to get sustaining foci - you want them high enough Force to get the maximum benefit from them (5 hits for improved invisibility=force: 5 focus needed). Cosmetic bioware modifications are cheap, don't hit your Essense, and can give a potential bonus to your social skills.

(I hatehatehate empathy software. It's not on this build, but if your GM uses it, then you had better move a point from contacts to resources, and get the software (not the friggin' toy) and a micro-sensor with a skinlink).



Different players will have different priorities, but those would be mine for an elven mage face intended to be the primary person in both roles. So here is a rough build:

[ Spoiler ]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Sep 12 2008, 08:33 AM
Post #5


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



Pretty good rundown and sample build there, so I´ll just to the usual thing and suggest going Ork for the combat mage. Charisma 4 + Influence group 4 should be sufficient, at least if you buy the also suggested Increase Charisma and Sustaining Focus.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cain
post Sep 12 2008, 08:46 AM
Post #6


Grand Master of Run-Fu
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,840
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Tir Tairngire
Member No.: 178



Oh, almost forgot. A while back, someone started a thread on the must-have spells. Everyone's list is somewhat different, but here's mine, in no particular order:

1. A direct combat spell. I prefer Stunball, but others like manabolt. YMMV, but the important thing is to have a good offensive spell.

2. Heal. You have no idea how often you'll be called upon to use this spell. In fact, you might end up feeling like this.

3. Improved Reflexes. This, plus a sustaining focus, will be your best friend. It's the easiest way to get extra IP's, which multiply your effectiveness in battle.

4. Improved Invisibility. If you can't afford stealth skills, this is the next best thing. If you *can* afford stealth skills, so much the better.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glyph
post Sep 12 2008, 12:58 PM
Post #7


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,116
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,449



QUOTE (Ryu @ Sep 12 2008, 01:33 AM) *
Pretty good rundown and sample build there, so I´ll just to the usual thing and suggest going Ork for the combat mage. Charisma 4 + Influence group 4 should be sufficient, at least if you buy the also suggested Increase Charisma and Sustaining Focus.

Unfortunately, the SR4 rules really mess up the Increase Charisma/Sustaining Focus combo. The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the augmented value of the Attribute being affected, and a spell sustained by a sustaining focus cannot have a Force greater than that of the focus. So in other words, if you are trying to increase your Charisma to 7, you need to cast the spell at Force: 7 into a Force: 7 sustaining focus.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Sep 12 2008, 01:15 PM
Post #8


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



This might sound weird, and perhaps minmaxed in a different way-but even for a mage-face, I'd play a dwarf, not an elf.


Dwarves cost 5 less points. Softmaxing Willpower will net you a full 6, which is awesome-OR, go with a 4, modifed to 5.

Soft-max Charisma.

You'll only need 20 BP to bring Body to a 4, for awesome armore. Or, 10 points for a more moderate 3.

You won't need to tough Strength, and it starts at 3-as opposed to the 1's mages tend to end up with these days for whatever reason(Im one of those folks that aren't into natural 1's unless it's for a specific character purpose. Yes, I know starting with a base X in a metahuman is kind of like having a natural 1...but for some reason, it doesn't...irk me as much. It's my personal thing, I guess.) So you'll be able to pick up your own shoes and actually carry some gear like a normal person.
Check out this attribute spread:

B: 4(20) A: 2(10) R: 3(20) S: 3(0) C: 5(40) I: 3(20) L: 4(30) W: 5(30). Total BP cost: 170. With wiggle room to spare. Also, your Thermographic vision, and extra dice for resistance.

Elf:

B: 3(20) A: 2(0) R: 3(20) S: 2(10) C: 6(30) I: 3(20) L: 4(30) W: 5(40) BP Cost: 180. Low-light vision. Elves also cost more BP. Less wiggle room, and all you get for it is one more die for social tests, you're less survivable as well.

IMO, the Dwarf might be your man of choice here.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wasabi
post Sep 12 2008, 01:39 PM
Post #9


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,251
Joined: 11-September 04
From: GA
Member No.: 6,651



Against Bound spirits mana bolt is much easier to use than Banishing.

Against summoned spirits the Banishing makes them evaporate.

It sounds similar but the difference is that with Mana Bolt the spirit loses 1 life (so to speak, its current service is ended)
When Banished you can not only potentially take all of its lives (lose all its services) you can also get a task on it and ask some very useful questions:

1. Who summoned you?
2. What were your instructions?
3. Where are they?
4. Did you assense any spells on the person who summoned you?
5. Would you please go kill them?

Throw some spells like Increase Reflexes and Increase Willpower on the spirit and let 'em loose!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Sep 12 2008, 04:20 PM
Post #10


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



QUOTE (Glyph @ Sep 12 2008, 02:58 PM) *
Unfortunately, the SR4 rules really mess up the Increase Charisma/Sustaining Focus combo. The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the augmented value of the Attribute being affected, and a spell sustained by a sustaining focus cannot have a Force greater than that of the focus. So in other words, if you are trying to increase your Charisma to 7, you need to cast the spell at Force: 7 into a Force: 7 sustaining focus.


I thought rating 4 was kosher. That´s what I get for playing without availability. Rating 3 is not enough, that´s certainly right.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cain
post Sep 12 2008, 05:42 PM
Post #11


Grand Master of Run-Fu
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,840
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Tir Tairngire
Member No.: 178



QUOTE (Wasabi @ Sep 12 2008, 06:39 AM) *
Against Bound spirits mana bolt is much easier to use than Banishing.

Against summoned spirits the Banishing makes them evaporate.

The problem is that summoned spirits may also have a lot of services backing them up. The more services that're on them, the less effective Banishing is. When you add to this the fact that it can take several rounds to banish a spirit, the one-shot-one-kill manabolt starts looking more attractive.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 08:19 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.