Arcane Arrester - Clarification..., Always "on" regardless of friendly spells? Options

[The Jopp]

Arcane arrester is a positive metagenic quality for 25 whopping points...

But does it also half spells cast from friendly casters? Does the changeling have ANY control over it?

Sure, it halves spells, including healing spells?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The rules don't make exceptions for 'friendly' spells, so it's the price to pay.

[Ol' Scratch]

It's definitely confusing if you use the text for other similar effects as a basis. Astral Hazing, for instance, specifically states that it affects beneficial as well as harmful spells, including spells cast by the changeling. Arcane Arrester, on the other hand, implies that it only applies to harmful spells cast at the changeling. Even the two samples they list are harmful spells and effects. So while logically it should apply to everything cast on the changeling, the text for it implies it's only harmful spells.

Considering it's a 25-point positive metagenic quality that isn't altered for Awakened characters (whereas other similar traits are usually more expensive/cheaper for the Awakened; see Astral Hazing), it also seems the intent is that it's only for harmful spells, too. Especially since Gnomes and Fomori -- the two metavariants that come standard with this trait -- wouldn't be the amazing magicians they've always been described as being

[Tarantula]

I agree, its language doesn't match the other effects that also reduce helpful spells, and I believe the intent is just that it reduces harmful effects.

[Muspellsheimr]

Arcane Arrester: Does the original Force or adjusted Force determine the Raw Hit limit for spells?

My ruling on this is that it the adjusted Force should limit hits as normal, however, the ambiguity of the writeup allows gamemasters to rule the other way if they want Arcane Arrester to be less powerful.

Arcane Arrester: Under the ruling that the adjusted Force is the limit on the caster's hits regarding that character:

1) Does Arcane Arrester adjust spells that do not affect the character, but they must still resist, such as Invisibility?
2) In the case of Indirect Combat spells, is the Force adjusted as the spell is cast, lowering the Raw Hits limit before the Defense roll, or after the subject is hit, reducing possible increases to damage from Net Hits, but not the chance of being hit?

1) It is a innante and uncontrollable ability which affects all magic effects against the character including stuff like Invisibility and Heal.

2)The latter. I've already noted this one for a FAQ reply.

Of course, he didn't actually answer my intended question, but your current one instead.

[Stahlseele]

so with that, one can now build a complete nega-mage? O.o
if you can get astral hazing too?
of course, every mage in the surrounding premises will want you dead, but aside from purely mundane things, there's not much they can do to you any more *g*

[BRodda]

so with that, one can now build a complete nega-mage? O.o
if you can get astral hazing too?
of course, every mage in the surrounding premises will want you dead, but aside from purely mundane things, there's not much they can do to you any more *g*

I the game I run one of my NPC Prime Runners is Hex the hunter. He is a SURGEd Fomori with shiva arms, astral hazing, and a love of flamethrowers. I'll leave off some of the others stuff as my players read here, but against a mage or physad he is basically death on foot. Especally considering that Fomori also tend to have high body to start with.

[Stahlseele]

well, as long as the mage does not think indirekt . . all your magic resistance basically means squat,if the mage decides to levitate 600kg of something rock solid above you and letting it drop from some height *g*

[Ol' Scratch]

It's value should be lowered quite a bit for Awakened characters if Synner's reply becomes official, then. It's a major hindrance for them, afterall, and hardly worth 25 BPs.

[Muspellsheimr]

It is no different on an Awakened character than a Mundane; it does not affect spells you cast unless they are targeting you.

Your self-buffs loose a lot of effect, but you gain insane resistance against other mages, especially considering your Counterspelling tacked on. Further, casting Ball spells centered on you just became a viable tactic (Force 5 Powerball on myself - I get 2 Hits, I am unaffected, everyone else resists full Hits (up to 5); if for some reason I fail, I only take 2~4 damage).

[Ol' Scratch]

It is no different on an Awakened character than a Mundane; it does not affect spells you cast unless they are targeting you.

Let's see, just off the top of my head we have Heal, Increase Reflexes, Increase [Attribute], Clairvoyance, Armor, Invisibility, Physical Mask, Fashion, Makeover, etc. Yeah, no noticable effect there on a magician. What was I thinking? That's not a hindrance at all for a magician. No sir, not at all. It even affects Conjurers, since it has the same effect on spirit powers like Concealment, Movement, etc.

Your self-buffs loose a lot of effect, but you gain insane resistance against other mages, especially considering your Counterspelling tacked on. Further, casting Ball spells centered on you just became a viable tactic.

Exactly the same benefits as a non-Awakened gets. Except they don't have the hindrances. At least not nearly as much as the magician himself does.

I guess this also means that Gnomes and Fomori aren't supposed to be the hot-shot magicians they've always been, either. You know, since they're forced to have this "beneficial" trait and all.

[Muspellsheimr]

A mage notices the downsides more than a mundane, but said downsides are still equal in effect between the two. Further, most on your list can be compensated for by slightly increased Drain.

Second, Arcane Arrester does not affect Critter Powers aside from Innate Spell.

As I pointed out, having the quality also allows new tactics for the Magician, and because a Magician will have a significantly higher spell resistance Dice Pool than a Mundane, the benefits of the quality are increased.

Final point, like everything else, the usefulness varies between characters. I would gladly take Arcane Arrester on a combat mage, but would hesitate on some support builds.

[Tarantula]

Further, casting Ball spells centered on you just became a viable tactic (Force 5 Powerball on myself - I get 2 Hits, I am unaffected, everyone else resists full Hits (up to 5); if for some reason I fail, I only take 2~4 damage).

If your counterspelling succeeds, then the entire ball spell is negated.

Edit: So I thought? I can't find where I thought I'd seen that, I'll post back later when I have more time to hunt.

[Muspellsheimr]

If your counterspelling succeeds, then the entire ball spell is negated.

Reflection Metamagic, yes. Anything else (such as Arcane Arrester), no.

[Machiavelli]

Does anybody know if and when this question will be treated in an official errata? There are definitely too many things completely unclear. If this thing also works against the mage, it would be the most expensive "quality" ever if you think that it causes more trouble than it helps. (no proper healing, nearly impossible to cast a spell into a sustaining focus etc.) It only makes sense to spend so many points, if it only works against enemy spells AND to limit their successes.

[Ol' Scratch]

Yep. It's extremely overpriced if it works the way the not-even-a-FAQ answer says it does, as opposed to what the actual text for it implies (but admittedly never says).

[Stahlseele]

what i like about this is the simple fact, that if you take it as a non awakened and add astral hazing and maybe astral chamaeleon, if it fits, you have finally a cyber character that does NOT automatically lose to most mages . .
not one of those is based on essence, or is it?

[Machiavelli]

And now to something really different ^^. If you combine arcane arrester with astral hazing, which one works first if you get attacked by a hostile spell? I would prefer the arcane arrester because the result would be better, but I can´t even find some clues about the range. Astral hazing only seems to spread if you are too long on the same place. And what happens if you cast e.g. a manabolt force 8 on such an character? Arcane arrester halves it to rating 4 and the astral hazing kills the last remaining 4 points? I think it would look funny to see the mages face but if you can drop the force to zero, would the additonal successes still count? The more I think about this abilities, the more questions it causes. I pledge for an instant errata. Heeeeeeeey SR-officials, here I am, waving with my handy. Please give me an answer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Steampunk]

Imho, Astral Hazing comes first, as it's "around" the character. Arcane Arrester just changes the character itself. This means, that the spell's power never can be reduzed by zero by Arcane Arrester.

[Machiavelli]

Could be, could be. But how far does it spread and works it also on contact. Could you "jump" on a force 4 spirit and make it dissapear just by contact? Or if the ghost uses his elemental attack, would it dissappear at a force of 4 or lower?

[The Jopp]

Astral Hazing doesn't actually "drop" the spells force as far as i have managed to find regarding casting into such an area.

Instead the caster gets a +4 to the drain test. A F8 powerbolt would get a F/2+5 instead giving a 9P to resist...

Quite a nasty surprise for the caster if they overcast at F12 (11P)...

The receiver of the spell would still halve the spell to F6 in the case of overcasting.

[The Jopp]

Could be, could be. But how far does it spread and works it also on contact. Could you "jump" on a force 4 spirit and make it dissapear just by contact? Or if the ghost uses his elemental attack, would it dissappear at a force of 4 or lower?

As soon as they get within the area all F4 or lower astral beings would go *POP*

[Stahlseele]

hmm . . high body and everything that lets you survive such a thing and you can be the antimagical bomb!
hey, with a character like that, even bug city would be surviveable . . and you'd probably be paid lots of money to go there o.O
sometimes, shit just happens . . and then:
"Who ya gonna call?"
Ghostbuster! *snickers* ^^
or to work/clean up in a toxic environment O.o

[Machiavelli]

Astral Hazing doesn't actually "drop" the spells force as far as i have managed to find regarding casting into such an area.

Instead the caster gets a +4 to the drain test. A F8 powerbolt would get a F/2+5 instead giving a 9P to resist...

Quite a nasty surprise for the caster if they overcast at F12 (11P)...

The receiver of the spell would still halve the spell to F6 in the case of overcasting.

Ok, but the caster actually doesn´t stand "within" the area. he is just casting "into" the area of the backround count. I haven´t read the section of backround counts and mana voids, but is increasing the drain really the only effect? The last time we went into the SOX, I played an adept whose magic dropped equal to the level. Shouldn´t that happen to magic effects, too? I´m confused.^^ Ok, magic-loss swithes drain from stun to physical, but if it doesn´t lower the force, it wouldn´t be that funny.^^