Technomancers, Mainly good choices of complex forms, etc. Options

[Nigel]

I'm going to be in an 800bp game soon, as detailed in Coldhand Jake's thread in Com.Proj., up to 400 of which can be turned into Karma. Rules, other than previously mentioned, are:

No availability restrictions.
Up to 200bp on resources.
Any bioware greater than 0.5 halves all cyberware essence cost.
Any SR4 books available (and that's not a problem, as I have all of them).
We're playing when Emergence is set.
All RC rules, as far as Advanced Lifestyle/Companions, are allowed. Ask for further RC rules, as I don't have a comprehensive list of what is forbidden (but can quite easily ask the GM).

Nothing else I can think of at the moment, but I'll update if I do.


I want to play a Technomancer, because I love the fluff and feel of them, but I've never played one or a Magician. I have a lot of experience with Adepts, but none for Magicians or other spell-types. I have also never played a hacker. Will these be huge restrictions on this character? I've read through the basic primer (recently posted on Com.Proj.) and the BBB rules sections, and I understand the rules. The questions I have mainly revolve around effectiveness, because this is going to be a group that takes on the big threats. What complex forms to take, what submersions to take, stuff like that.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for any assistance!

[Cain]

Quick answer: Build up your Resonance, and Submerge as often as you can. You can get away with very little in resources, because you don't need to buy programs. Raise your Compiling and Registering to the max allowed, but ignore Decompiling; it's useless against anything but Wild Sprites.

CF selection is a personal choice, but I highly recommend Analyze.

[Tiger Eyes]

I'll second the idea to submerge as often as possible. Start with your resonance at 6, plus your number of complex forms at 6. Then just submerge, submerge, submerge. You may want to consider Biowires and Acceleration (x3) if you anticipate a lot of combat. Buff up your Attributes, too, because with biowires you'll be able to pick up any skill you want... (for 4 karma!). Beyond those echos, I personally really like skinlink (comes in useful so many times for hacking) and E-Sensing. E-Sensing, actually, has saved our team's hide more than once. Resonance Trodes can be very fun in close combat. See if your GM will allow you to take a TM group as a contact (saves on Karma for submerging and can give him some good plot hooks) - there's several in Unwired ready-made.

Pick what Stream you'll follow carefully - read the Sprite descriptions. You only get 5, and unless your GM will let you make a custom stream, each stream has 5 already assigned. Whatever you choose, remember Machine Sprites are your friend. And Paladin Sprites make you undamagable in Matrix Combat (unless, of course, you go up against another TM who decides to decompile your sprite first -- only time Decompiling is a useful skill, damn it).

Resources can go to buying skillsofts. Stay away from cyberware/bioware.

Consider getting a TacNet as a Complex Form, your team will thank you. If you've played adepts in the past, you may find that with the echos presented in Unwired, you can actually get a sort of 'adept feel' with a TM.

As for Complex forms... I use Exploit and Stealth every session.

[Sir_Psycho]

If you have 800 BP, then why not just get all the complex forms?

Also, pump up your drain... ahem, Fading stats and get a good threading. If you can soak the drain, Threading can be much more cost effective than CFs.

Consider sacrificing a point of resonance for cyber/bio bonuses. Particularly genetic enhancements to attributes such as intuition and willpower.

[Abschalten]

If you're sacrificing a point of Resonance for bio or cyber, I highly recommend the trauma damper and the pain editor. You can't have them both active at the same time (you only benefit from one or the other at any given moment.) But if you're going to be doing alot of threading, the trauma damper can keep you from being nickel-and-dimed on fading quite so much. The pain editor will allow you to risk compiling and registering higher rating sprites. Since they're analogs to spirits, you don't want to let an unregistered sprite go free because you passed out from the fading, especially if it's one of the nastier ones that you've just compiled with Attack or Black Hammer.

[Ryu]

Submersion is good, but choose your Echos wisely. A resonance 6, high mental attributes TM has the matrix aspect handled. Go for things that make you special, or enable you to keep up physically.
Your main advantage over common hackers is increased (threading + support operation) short-term stealth for use with exploit, or increased spoof for simple orders. Low-rated compiled sprites don´t cost a thing.

You will want to have resonance 6 + logic 6 at chargen, and buy all the rating 6 CFs you can with BPs.

Then you should look into loosing two points of resonance to implants, virtually since you´d rebuy those with karma.

[Tarantula]

If you're sacrificing a point of Resonance for bio or cyber, I highly recommend the trauma damper and the pain editor. You can't have them both active at the same time (you only benefit from one or the other at any given moment.) But if you're going to be doing alot of threading, the trauma damper can keep you from being nickel-and-dimed on fading quite so much. The pain editor will allow you to risk compiling and registering higher rating sprites. Since they're analogs to spirits, you don't want to let an unregistered sprite go free because you passed out from the fading, especially if it's one of the nastier ones that you've just compiled with Attack or Black Hammer.

I'll disagree. If a TM goes unconcious, his biological node is crashed. Unless the TM has regular old trodes/datajack/internalcommlink attached, then the free sprite has no way to wail away on him.

[Cain]

Cyber is a contentious issue. Like with mages, some people think you should avoid all Essence-sapping augmentations; others recommend a select set of carefully chosen 'ware. The choice is yours, but if you decide against cyber, you should definitely take the flaw Sensitive System. It doesn't affect bioware or genetech, only cyberware. You can end up with a big-time bonus to your mental stats that way.

[Krule]

If the GM allows that sort of thing, I've know some GMs who would say no, if you don't have any cyberware, you can't have that flaw.

That said, there is reason to concider the various options cyberware offers you, and reason to ignore them. If you take levels of initiation, without raising Resonance, then some cyberware has it's advantages.

But, to your actual point. I've played magicians, and adepts, and a technomancer or two, mostly, had a few other characters, I vastly prefer the development options they offer you.

I agree with the others, Submersion is your friend.... a lot of capablities of the technomancer are based on mental stats, so elves and dwarves are really good racial choices... Willpower is your firewall.. and Charisma gives you a biofeedback filter for free. Also, your stream matters here, E-scapists base thier fading off Willpower + resonance, while Networkers and Technoshamans after Charisma + Resonance... another reason to concider Elves and Dwarves, though due to the attribute bonuses, they can excell in any stream, more then humans IMO.

Of course, no complex form, or any part of your Living Persona can exceed your resonance, so sense you have the option, take a few levels of submersion and raise your resonance to at least 7, if not further.. it has other advantages too.. as signal is based on 1/2 resonance round up, and your complex forms are limited only by your resonance

It's already been said, but... it bears repeating, certain Echos can really give you some bonuses... Biowire, Overclocking, Advanced Overclocking, Aceleration x3, Multiprocessing and Mesh reality, all together, give you some insane bonuses... It a high cost in Karma, of course.. but it's worth it.

[Cain]

If the GM allows that sort of thing, I've know some GMs who would say no, if you don't have any cyberware, you can't have that flaw.

It's more legit than you might think. Sensitive System doesn't mean you can never get cyber at some point in the future; it means that if you do, it costs double Essence. That means no cybereyes for you, even if your own get gouged out.

[Ol' Scratch]

It's more legit than you might think. Sensitive System doesn't mean you can never get cyber at some point in the future; it means that if you do, it costs double Essence. That means no cybereyes for you, even if your own get gouged out.

??? Uhm, no. It means your new cybereyes cost twice as much Essence as they do for everyone else. Which is what you said at the beginning of the quote. Which, in turn, leaves my brain in a painful state of WTFness.

[Tarantula]

I think Cain is trying to say that the double essence penalty is so much that no one would ever voluntarily take cyber at double essence cost with the flaw.

[Phantom Gett]

Any idea for a Troll Technomancer Build?

I have one with a Resonance of 5, with Exploit 4, Stealth 4, Attack 5, Browse 2, Analyze 3... I think more, but I don't have it next to me... I need some help with this build due to the naturally low Cha of Trolls, but a few other low attributes, Logic I believe.

I need some help, it's mainly going to be the Team "combat-technomancer" and an NPC/PC when I play other games... If I find any.

[Tarantula]

Troll Techno build? Get ready to suck until you get a few hundred karma.

[Krule]

Well.. the troll technomancer is a viable option, but like the troll mage, his attributes give him a significant disadvantage where it counts, the Matrix. (Troll mages are actually more viable IMO then troll technomancers)

Mind you, that extra body comes in handy, and the strength is nothing to laugh at in the real world.. but strength has no effect on the matrix... and the hits to charisma, intuition and logic hurt.. however, it can be done.. if you've already chosen his stream, concider changing it to E-scapists, who have thier drain based on Willpower, the one mental stat that trolls arn't taking hits on, and those Tank Sprites can be nasty, the shooter Paragon can make you more dangerous in maxtrix combat too.

Mind you, Info Savants with access to Paladin sprites, who are really cool and useful in matrix combat, are intuition based.. but, Trolls take a hit there too.. the other stream with access to Paladin spirits are Charisma based, ignore the Technoshaman... it's definatly out for Trolls, unless your chosing it for roleplaying purposes.. [after all, I chose a Info Savant for an Elf.. for that reason, when Technoshaman would have been better]

Sense you have a 5 in Resonance... Cerebral Boosters is also possible.. that bonus to Logic is worth it, for someone who hasn't maxed out resonance..

[Cain]

I think Cain is trying to say that the double essence penalty is so much that no one would ever voluntarily take cyber at double essence cost with the flaw.

Or at least they're going to think about it heavily. But when it comes to having to choose between seeing now, or waiting for cloned implants to arrive, you might start considering cyber, even if it causes a double hit. Not to mention the threat of forced implantation ought to get their engines revving. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

A troll otaku, hm...

OK, here's a suggestion. This is one case where I'd recommend a generalist. With naturally high physical stats, you can afford to not raise them at all, and go for even numbers across the board, 4's or higher if you can do it. You're not going to have any really effective dice pools, but you can manage some decent ones-- 4 stat + 4 skill + Specialization = 10 dice, which will usually be enough for unopposed tests.

[Jaid]

just to clarify something which i'm getting the impression some people in this thread (possibly only one) have misunderstood...

any kind of essence reduction reduces your *current* resonance as well as your maximum. so statements like "Sense you have a 5 in Resonance... Cerebral Boosters is also possible.. that bonus to Logic is worth it, for someone who hasn't maxed out resonance.." or "If you take levels of initiation, without raising Resonance, then some cyberware has it's advantages." are not true at all.

i would only suggest considering essence-reducing gear of any kind if you have a resonance higher than all of your complex forms. resonance is cheap to buy up with karma. your complex forms are not, and are capped at resonance, so if your resonance ever drops below your complex forms, you are flushing a whole lot of karma down the drain.

so the correct statements would be something along the lines of "if you have all your CFs at 5 or lower at chargen, and your resonance at 6, it may be worthwhile to get some 'ware" or "if you have initiated and bought up your resonance, but have not improved your complex forms above your old resonance, it may be worthwhile to get some 'ware".

on a side note, given how much BP you have, spend as much BP as you can on boosting your resonance and logic to max, and spend the maximum amount of BP possible on your CFs. you can probably even ignore boosting your other stats from BP, and buy them up cheap with karma, but that's up to you... certainly, submersion should be high on your to-do list, because it will make all the difference. you can be a reasonably competent TM without submerging, but when you submerge you open up a whole new set of options that can make you an awesome TM.

[Nigel]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I can submerse a full 6 times (I'm definitely taking Resonance 6) for 231 karma, which is just over half my limit. I'd have 400bp + 169 karma/bp if I were to do that. I think I'll be a Dwarf TM, because I like dwarves and hate elves. With this many BP and no real need for resources, I can probably get all the CF at 6. With the relative importance of Charisma to technomancers, should I raise it to 5? I don't see what I really need beyond Logic 6, in terms of stats, and more Sprites on standby is always important. Also, is it worth it to register sprites? It seems like a really cool concept to me, having AIs coming to your beck and call when you require their services, but I'm not sure if it's a good choice.

As for stats, I was thinking good charisma and intuition, with max logic. My living persona will be good, and I'll be able to compile sprites/use complex forms well. Plus I'll have 5 sprites on retainer, with 5 charisma. They last 8 hours, and that's enough time to run in.

[Cain]

BindingRegistering sprites is definitely worth it. That's the only way to have more than 1 at your command, for starters, and the only way you can keep one for more than 8 hours. Second, you can send them on remote services without losing them. Third is the fact that you can mix and match sprite types, so you have a full array of powers when you need it.

[Jaid]

BindingRegistering sprites is definitely worth it. That's the only way to have more than 1 at your command, for starters, and the only way you can keep one for more than 8 hours. Second, you can send them on remote services without losing them. Third is the fact that you can mix and match sprite types, so you have a full array of powers when you need it.

fourth is the fact that certain registered services (which, naturally, cannot be provided with regular compiled sprites) are *extremely* good. in particular, support operation is one of the most critically important tools for effective use of a technomancer. it really is that good.

seriously, it doesn't cost you anything but downtime to register, and downtime to recover from the fading. why would you *not* register your sprites?

[Tiger Eyes]

To emphasis what Jaid said, because it really is just that important: Registered Sprites can help a TM with support operation. They add their rating to the TM's Complex Form. Who can get a Stealth of 19 in the Matrix? Answer: A TM with several registered sprites. Want a Blackhammer with a rating of 15 (or more)? Want to rip through a node? Exploit of 20.

Raise your Charisma as high as possible, because that's the number of registered sprites you can have on hand. (in fact, it's one reason that elves can make such good Technoshamans, with a sprite-based build)

[Tarantula]

Except, how long does that stealth 19 last? Very short really. Assuming you have a 6 already, and you're boosting it by 13. You'd probably have 2 rating 4 and 1 rating 5 sprite assisting you. So, that'll last for 4 combat turns per service (5 for the rating 5) and you'll likely blow through it with 1-2 hacks.

Then you get to spend all that time to re-register them.


Or, you can submerse, pump your software skill, get the swap echo, and thread a rating 12 stealth (on top of your rating 6) for a rating 18 stealth program with no downsides (get a machine sprite to diagnose the medkit before the team medic patches you up, you'll be fine).

[Cain]

fourth is the fact that certain registered services (which, naturally, cannot be provided with regular compiled sprites) are *extremely* good. in particular, support operation is one of the most critically important tools for effective use of a technomancer. it really is that good.

seriously, it doesn't cost you anything but downtime to register, and downtime to recover from the fading. why would you *not* register your sprites?

He's got a point. Unlike mages, it doesn't cost you anything to bind sprites. If you wait until the end of session (assuming your GM refreshes Edge at the start of each session) and spend your Edge on the summoning and binding rolls, you'll get a lot more successes. Even if he doesn't, this is sometimes worth it anyway.

And Jaid is right. Summon your Sprite, sleep off the fading for a few hours, then bind it. It works for mages when the summon spirits; sprites are effectively the same thing.

Edit: Forgot to add: ask your GM if he's using the optional rule, that treats CFs more like spells. You'll only have to pay a flat cost, if he does it that way.

[Abschalten]

I'll disagree. If a TM goes unconcious, his biological node is crashed. Unless the TM has regular old trodes/datajack/internalcommlink attached, then the free sprite has no way to wail away on him.

You know, I realized this after I'd typed my recommendations up, but I was too lazy to edit (and in a hurry) so I hit enter anyway. However, a sufficiently motivated sprite could still get back at a technomancer, up to and including screwing with devices in the vicinity (emptying bank accounts), attacking team mates that may be nearby, jumping into drones and killing the technomancer with them. While not as immediate of a threat as a spirit -- and steps can be taken to greatly reduce the threat of a pissed-off sprite -- you still don't want to let a sprite go uncontrolled, especially if you have a reputation for feeding them to other sprites for cheap submersions.

[Rasumichin]

Pick what Stream you'll follow carefully - read the Sprite descriptions. You only get 5, and unless your GM will let you make a custom stream, each stream has 5 already assigned. Whatever you choose, remember Machine Sprites are your friend. And Paladin Sprites make you undamagable in Matrix Combat (unless, of course, you go up against another TM who decides to decompile your sprite first -- only time Decompiling is a useful skill, damn it).

Totally seconded.
Best stream choice IMHO would be Technoshamans- they get -along with the relatively bland, but still useful Crack and Data sprites- access to Machine, Paladin and Sleuth sprites (Sleuths are great for research tasks- they can track down virtually everyone), which is just awesome.
Plus, this stream is CHA-based, so if you're an elf, you can max out your second fading stat and the stat that determines the maximum number of sprites you can register.

But as CFs are so much more cheaper with BP than with karma, you may still want to hardmax LOG at chargen, along with Resonance.
CHA 7 is still good enough, especially if your team's mage packs Increase Charisma to buff it up to (12).

I'd like to add that you can expand your sprite selection by choosing the Sprite Link echo.
But the echo i'd recommend most is Swap, taken tow times- that means you get no penalties for sustaining your threaded CFs at all.
Pure gold (well, if your GM is halfway sane, he'll decide that this does not work anew for every CF you thread, so sustaining two CFs with Swap2 would still earn you a -2 penalty instead of the usual -4).

As far as other echos are concerned, people get agitated a lot about Biowire, Advanced Overclocking and Acceleration, as well as Mesh Reality.
I find it hard to say wether they are actually that good- you can get similar results with 'ware and use your echos for something else.
Of course, reducing your Resonance is even worse than reducing Magic, as it is also one of your drain...er, fading stats.

Taking Overclocking, Biowire and Acceleration x3 does the same as simply getting Skillwires and Synaptic Boosters 3, but it costs you a whopping 5 echos.
Going for the 'ware will cost you 2 points of Resonance and 264.000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , but you won't get the fifth matrix IP from Advanced Overclocking.
Tough choice, but i guess i'd stick with the 'ware and get Mesh Reality and Macro instead so you can act in VR and the real world simultaneously.


I also like resonance bonds (like spirit pacts, but with sprites)- the great thing about free sprites is, they don't require karma, you simply merge them with registered sprites.
Just take it at lvl 1 for 5 BP and you can raise your own pet supersprite during gameplay, which can assist you in fading and share its powers and CFs with you.
Compile, register and use sprites as normal until they only have one service left, then send them to breed with the bonded sprite, which will constantly grow stronger and stronger.
Be sure to roleplay the hell out of encounters with this sprite to get it as a high-ranking contact.


@ Abschalten :
Wether you feed them to other sprites or just merge their code with them is disputed even among TMs.
I'd rather stick to the latter.

And sprites are a bit different from spirits as far as having a personality is concerned.
See, spirits (as well as AIs) get the sapience power and a full range of mental attributes- sprites don't.

They get Edge and Resonance, so they are certainly more than just some kind of spontaneously programmed agent- probably like a program that is...alive, but in a metaphysical rather than biological sense.