[X] My Assistant

[Dakka Dakka]

Another Bug report:
Slot cost for Weapon mounts are still off.
According to arsenal p. 145-148 a normal mount (LMG or smaller) should be 1 slot, a reinforced mount (all weapons) should be 2 slots
Options add to that as follows:
Visibility
external +0
internal +2
concealed +3

Flexibility
fixed +0
flexible +1
turret +3
heavy turret +4

Control
remote control +0
manual +1
armored manual +2
manual control can be combined with remote control add additional ¥cost but without adding slot cost.

So the minimum Slot cost (normal external fixed remote controlled weapon mount) should be 1 and the theoretical maximum (concealed heavy turret with armoured manual control, I know this is ridiculous) 11, or more sensibly a visible heavy turret with combined armored control costs 8 slots.
In version L and in several earlier versions the normal fixed remote controlled weapon mount is 0 slots. The visible heavy turret with combined armored control comes up costing 7 slots.

[Thirty Second Ar...]

That would be becouse all the other armors use the different capasity rules:
From Arsenal page 44.
"Each piece of armor or clothing can only accept a total number
of modifi cation rating points equal to 6 or the highest number
of its armor ratings (Ballistic or Impact) x 1.5 (round up), whichever
is higher. Unrated armor modifi cations (for example, the gel
pack modifi cation) take up 1 point"

Not to sound hostile, but you should read the actual rules germane to the situation before reporting bugs ;)

Edit: Rebuttal retracted. Hm. Considering the armor capacity rules are optional, as noted at the top of Arsenal p.44, perhaps option flags are in order? It'd let players toggle armor modification rules based on their GM's preferences.

[Dakka Dakka]

Hm. Perhaps option flags are in order, to toggle armor modification rules based on your GM's preferences?

IIRC you can put as much modifications into armor as you like wih the sheet. If you exceed the optional maxima, the color of the cells changes. That's all.

After I checked the statement above I found out that the CharSheet does not show the rating of the modifications. It only shows for example Insulation instead of Insulation 6.

[Thirty Second Ar...]

IIRC you can put as much modifications into armor as you like wih the sheet. If you exceed the optional maxima, the color of the cells changes. That's all.

True, though the inconsistencies in capacity value tracking between armors make tracking armor mod capacity slightly more difficult than necessary when the GM's using the capacities on the Arsenal p.44 sidebar. Sure, you could just note it down on a piece of paper or something, but where's the fun in that?

[Dakka Dakka]

Agreed, it's just that I don't like those rules anyway so I allow to use as much mods as the players want. I don't get, why warm clothes must be bullet resistant.

Another thing is that the two rules apply to differnt types of armors. The Capacity rule only applies to Full-Body Suits of Armor. The slot rule (Highest armor *1.5) applies to all armor, even including those Full-Body types.

[DamienKnight]

It's trauma damper, not dampener.

Similarly, it's thermal damping, not dampening.

Doh. Good point. Fixed in version M.

From what i have expirimented, adding whole new lines to various data tabs, havent broken anythink.

This is nice and technically enough, but is there any chance at getting all the official elemental spell into the spell list(street magic has sidebar listing names for single target and AOE spell for all elements).
I can ofcource just add them myself, but would be super nice to not have to do that everytime a new version comes out.
Actually here's a link to a version that has them added, so all you would have to do is copy them in, pretty please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The biggest issue with adding new lines is that excel does not allow concatenating a range, so cell addresses are manually added to the list. If you insert a line, the new line will not be included in the Listing that ends up on the CharSheet page. Thats the biggest one. The other is sometimes there are formulas off the viewable page for charging nuyen/karma that could become thrown off by new cells.

That would be becouse all the other armors use the different capasity rules:
From Arsenal page 44.
"Each piece of armor or clothing can only accept a total number
of modifi cation rating points equal to 6 or the highest number
of its armor ratings (Ballistic or Impact) x 1.5 (round up), whichever
is higher. Unrated armor modifi cations (for example, the gel
pack modifi cation) take up 1 point"

Not to sound hostile, but you should read the actual rules germane to the situation before reporting bugs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Ouch. Your point is strong, but your reprimand is HARSH. You are correct though. Armor suits use the special capacity rules from Arsenal, and other armor uses the default capacity rules for SR4a.

I get an error when I try to enter a 0. Maybe it comes from OpenOffice. But that's not a big deal: I am not even sure there is an item with Availability 13, so 1 works well enough.

The dropdown should include a blank. Just select the blank if you do not want any bonus to availability limits for black market pipeline.


By the way, I forgot to mention in the update list, I have added an Intiation Group page. Please check it out and let me know how I can make it more complete.

[DamienKnight]

Agreed, it's just that I don't like those rules anyway so I allow to use as much mods as the players want. I don't get, why warm clothes must be bullet resistant.

Another thing is that the two rules apply to differnt types of armors. The Capacity rule only applies to Full-Body Suits of Armor. The slot rule (Highest armor *1.5) applies to all armor, even including those Full-Body types.

The rules allow that there is a minimum capacity an item can have, regardless of its armor value. So a Sweater can have thermal Damping without having any armor in it.

The special rules for capacity only apply to Armor suits and helmets. Everything else will use the default Highest Armor * 1.5 on the sheet. If you are using armor suits or helmets, you have to use the Arsenal rules with the sheet. No optional rules switching, that is just the way its gonna be.

Another Bug report:
Slot cost for Weapon mounts are still off.
According to arsenal p. 145-148 a normal mount (LMG or smaller) should be 1 slot, a reinforced mount (all weapons) should be 2 slots
Options add to that as follows:
Visibility
external +0
internal +2
concealed +3

Flexibility
fixed +0
flexible +1
turret +3
heavy turret +4

Control
remote control +0
manual +1
armored manual +2
manual control can be combined with remote control add additional ¥cost but without adding slot cost.

So the minimum Slot cost (normal external fixed remote controlled weapon mount) should be 1 and the theoretical maximum (concealed heavy turret with armoured manual control, I know this is ridiculous) 11, or more sensibly a visible heavy turret with combined armored control costs 8 slots.
In version L and in several earlier versions the normal fixed remote controlled weapon mount is 0 slots. The visible heavy turret with combined armored control comes up costing 7 slots.

Thanks for the reminder. Sorry I forgot about that one.

I altered the sheet to add 1 slot cost to ANY turret selected. I guess that doesnt really fix it, because the player has no option to select Normal or Reinforced (Except with a Heavy Turret).

I will have to re-examine this.

[Traul]

The dropdown should include a blank. Just select the blank if you do not want any bonus to availability limits for black market pipeline.

There is none, but simply erasing the value works :facepalm: Sorry for bothering you, guys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

By the way, I forgot to mention in the update list, I have added an Intiation Group page. Please check it out and let me know how I can make it more complete.

It was already there on Version 1K (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Mäx]

Ouch. Your point is strong, but your reprimand is HARSH.

But i really tried my best to not sound harsh, but still get across the point that one should know the rules their commenting about, honestly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The biggest issue with adding new lines is that excel does not allow concatenating a range, so cell addresses are manually added to the list. If you insert a line, the new line will not be included in the Listing that ends up on the CharSheet page. Thats the biggest one. The other is sometimes there are formulas off the viewable page for charging nuyen/karma that could become thrown off by new cells.

From what i have noticed (only tested addidng mentors,qualities and spells) it works just fine as long as you add the new line in the middle of the list, at least my additional spells(and other) show up just well in the selection drop down(s).

But ofcource i'm just dappling, i dont really understand excels inner functions, but i do know that if you add new lines between the lines in a range of cells used by a function,the excel automatically expands the range in the function that used it.

Also addidng new lines shouldn't throw of any formulas as the cell reverences for those formulas are updated to match the new cell numbers when you add a new line

[killfr3nzy]

Hi, I was just wondering where all the extra drones and gear came from, such as 'Light' and UltraLight' armour versions etc. Did Arsenal get Errata'd with bonus stuff, or am I missing a book somewhere? Or is it fan-made?

[Raven the Tricks...]

The Manias/Phobias negative quality from pg 164 in Augmentation is not in the qualities list. Which is odd, because I noticed plenty of other qualities in the list from that page.

[DamienKnight]

But ofcource i'm just dappling, i dont really understand excels inner functions, but i do know that if you add new lines between the lines in a range of cells used by a function,the excel automatically expands the range in the function that used it.

Also addidng new lines shouldn't throw of any formulas as the cell reverences for those formulas are updated to match the new cell numbers when you add a new line

Yeah, in range formulas that is true. But you are illustrating my exact point.. it only works in RANGE formulas. Concatenation formulas cannot specify a range, only a list of one-cell addresses, so they cannot expand.

You can create a work around with an excel Macro (see Link), but then the sheet would no-longer be Open Office Compatible.

Hi, I was just wondering where all the extra drones and gear came from, such as 'Light' and UltraLight' armour versions etc. Did Arsenal get Errata'd with bonus stuff, or am I missing a book somewhere? Or is it fan-made?

I dont know about extra drones... could you be more specific?

As far as armor goes, the Light armors category is completely house ruled. Basically it follows the Bal/imp ratio of greater armors, and is less expensive (but not proportionately so, because things never are). I just figure if they can make a vest with 4/2 armor, then its not a big deal to make one with 2/1 armor. Really important for the mages and low-bodied chars out there who want to get protection without slowing themselves down. I believe I kept all the custom armor in a section together so its easily identifiable. I need to add to the heading something like 'Light Armor (House Rule)'.

The Manias/Phobias negative quality from pg 164 in Augmentation is not in the qualities list. Which is odd, because I noticed plenty of other qualities in the list from that page.

Give me a page reference. I think with the cornucopia of mental disabilities available on the sheet I must have got it somewhere.

[Raven the Tricks...]

Like I said in the comment you quoted, page 164 from augmentation.

Also, there doesn't seem to be a way to give the ares executive protector it's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 500 internal smartgun system that is a specific option for that gun. It's right in the descriptive text, even on the sheet, but when you try to add a smartgun system to it in the custom weapon section it still costs the full (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 1000

edit: Also you still don't seem to have the discounted common use software suites for new commlinks from SR4A pg 232 that I had previously mentioned were missing

edit 2: There doesn't seem to be a cost associated with either the Tools > Chemistry Shop or the Electronics - Spy Toys > Operations Cleanup items in the gear list

[Mäx]

Yeah, in range formulas that is true. But you are illustrating my exact point.. it only works in RANGE formulas. Concatenation formulas cannot specify a range, only a list of one-cell addresses, so they cannot expand.

From my limited playing around with excel, when you add a new line or colum every single formula has its cell references updated to match the new cell address no matter what kinda of formula it is.
Ofcource it can be that i still didn't understand what you were saying, if so i apologize and shut-up, but i have to say all of this has made me understand excel much better.

[killfr3nzy]

Vehicles/Drones's I don't know the source for:
- Jena Robotnik Cyclone (yo-yo spytoy)
- Renraku Shrew (dissasemble-able drone)
- Ruhrmetall Wolfspinne
- Messerschmitt-Kawasaki Wandervogel
- Ruhrmetall Wolf III
- Mercedes PE Commando/(disguised)
- Mercedes Multimog Greif
- Scania VM 42
- Renault-Fiat 264 "Fattorina"
- Toyota Gopher
- There's more, but you get the idea..

Damn, was this cut content or did the German version of Arsenal just kick ass?
Some things also aren't marked as being from Arsenal or whatever, like the USS Boston class or Surfstar Marine Seacop. There's a fair few in the seatime section, actually - Lamprey, Nymph..

[Mäx]

Damn, was this cut content or did the German version of Arsenal just kick ass?

German version of Arsenal just kicked ass?
We will hopefully get that stuff someday in the Arsenal pdf suplement(like digital grimoire) as it was all written in english and aproved by Catalyst so its actually official stuff.

[killfr3nzy]

Wait, so you're saying those Drones were in the German Version of Arsenal, and they just haven't been translated?
I just said that because the names were German, and to be an ass.

[DamienKnight]

Vehicles/Drones's I don't know the source for:
- Jena Robotnik Cyclone (yo-yo spytoy)
- Renraku Shrew (dissasemble-able drone)
- Ruhrmetall Wolfspinne
- Messerschmitt-Kawasaki Wandervogel
- Ruhrmetall Wolf III
- Mercedes PE Commando/(disguised)
- Mercedes Multimog Greif
- Scania VM 42
- Renault-Fiat 264 "Fattorina"
- Toyota Gopher
- There's more, but you get the idea..

Damn, was this cut content or did the German version of Arsenal just kick ass?
Some things also aren't marked as being from Arsenal or whatever, like the USS Boston class or Surfstar Marine Seacop. There's a fair few in the seatime section, actually - Lamprey, Nymph..

Yeah, its probably all German version stuff. I have not created any custom vehicles on the sheet, so they came from SOME book somehere.

From my limited playing around with excel, when you add a new line or colum every single formula has its cell references updated to match the new cell address no matter what kinda of formula it is.
Ofcource it can be that i still didn't understand what you were saying, if so i apologize and shut-up, but i have to say all of this has made me understand excel much better.

Perhaps an illustration would help. Try to insert a row in the Active skills area. It will insert just fine. Now select 3 skills, one on the line you added, and one above and blow. Set the skills all to 2. Now go to the Charsheet. The skill on the inserted line will not be listed. That is because to create the string used by the CHARSHEET to display skills, gear etc. it has to concatenate text values from a range, but that is not possible in excel. So instead of CONCATENATE(A1:A5) we have to say CONCATENATE(A1,A2,A3,A4,A5). If you insert a cell after A2, the formula is updated to: CONCATENATE(A1,A2,A4,A5,A6), then you have to go into the formula and manually add 'A3' to the list.

[Traul]

When using a BP build, the cost of karma specialization for knowledge skills is not deducted from the remaining karma. I have just checked: it was also the case in version K.

[Thirty Second Ar...]

Magic, Spell List: Drain calculation cells F5 through F31 are filled identically, resulting in every spell selected in cells B6-B31 displaying drain identical to the spell selected in cell B5 - or to pitch a #N/A error if B5 is empty. If I grok the formatting right, this should be easily solved by properly incrementing F6 through F31, starting from [...]INDEX(Spell_Truename,3,5)[...] and moving on to Spell_Truename,4,5, Spell_Truename,5,5, etcetera.

Magic_Data, Spell_Truename: Discovered while attempting to fix the Magic, Spell List bug above. The code in cells BK2-BK24 increments forward from Magic!B4 properly in cells BK2-BK5 - that is, it properly references the spell list on the Magic sheet. BK6-BK24 also increments properly, though it starts at Magic!B10 rather than Magic!B8 as might be expected. Again, if I'm grokking this properly, this is an easily fixed problem.

Magic_Data, Spell_Truename: Discovered while attempting to fix the Magic, Spell List bug above. Spell_Truename covers BK2-BO24, which is five rows too short to match the length of the the spell list on the Magic sheet. I do not know enough about Excel's tools to fix this, but the solution is obvious: Extend Spell_Truename to cover BK1-BO29, and extend the entries in BK24-BO24 downward to match the new size.

I've put my attempted fix version up on megaupload, if anyone feels like picking it apart to see what I might've done wrong or inadvertently broken horribly in my overly-tired and overly-caffeinated state.

[killfr3nzy]

My version reads 1k, so this should still be relevant; I don't get my free Knowledge Skills. It tells me how many I get free, but as soon as I start adding them they come straight out of my pocket.
I've just been listing level in the Skill description as a read-able work-around (ie, instead of "Skill X | Level Y", I enter "Skill X, Rating Y | "), but it'd be nice not to have to relay on my mental math.

[Traul]

My version reads 1k, so this should still be relevant; I don't get my free Knowledge Skills. It tells me how many I get free, but as soon as I start adding them they come straight out of my pocket.
I've just been listing level in the Skill description as a read-able work-around (ie, instead of "Skill X | Level Y", I enter "Skill X, Rating Y | "), but it'd be nice not to have to relay on my mental math.

It is the biggest fix in version L. Upgrade now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Tyro]

Hey DK: You need to update your siggy to version L ^_^

[Edit:] Also the first post.

[Nifft]

Magic, Spell List: Drain calculation cells F5 through F31 are filled identically, resulting in every spell selected in cells B6-B31 displaying drain identical to the spell selected in cell B5 - or to pitch a #N/A error if B5 is empty. If I grok the formatting right, this should be easily solved by properly incrementing F6 through F31, starting from [...]INDEX(Spell_Truename,3,5)[...] and moving on to Spell_Truename,4,5, Spell_Truename,5,5, etcetera.

Magic_Data, Spell_Truename: Discovered while attempting to fix the Magic, Spell List bug above. The code in cells BK2-BK24 increments forward from Magic!B4 properly in cells BK2-BK5 - that is, it properly references the spell list on the Magic sheet. BK6-BK24 also increments properly, though it starts at Magic!B10 rather than Magic!B8 as might be expected. Again, if I'm grokking this properly, this is an easily fixed problem.

Magic_Data, Spell_Truename: Discovered while attempting to fix the Magic, Spell List bug above. Spell_Truename covers BK2-BO24, which is five rows too short to match the length of the the spell list on the Magic sheet. I do not know enough about Excel's tools to fix this, but the solution is obvious: Extend Spell_Truename to cover BK1-BO29, and extend the entries in BK24-BO24 downward to match the new size.

I've put my attempted fix version up on megaupload, if anyone feels like picking it apart to see what I might've done wrong or inadvertently broken horribly in my overly-tired and overly-caffeinated state.

I came in to report pretty much exactly this, but with far less helpful detail.

I'll take a peak at your fix.

Thanks, -- N

EDIT: First bunch of rows seem to work fine, error:502 on last 5 rows (F27 to F31).

[Thirty Second Ar...]

I came in to report pretty much exactly this, but with far less helpful detail.

I'll take a peak at your fix.

Thanks, -- N

EDIT: First bunch of rows seem to work fine, error:502 on last 5 rows (F27 to F31).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's because the Spell_Truename area being referenced is five rows too short. I don't personally know how to expand it, so I made mention of it in my bug report for DamienKnight to fix. Good to know everything else I hacked into working came out okay.