Upgraded Character Generator, Updated Generator Based on work from Autarkis and Blakkie Options

[DamienKnight]

I figured out how to do group-breaking in a workable (although not entirely intuitive) manner.

[ Spoiler ]

Three steps:

1. Change validation of column D to allow for values down to -4
2. Wrap column AN in a MAX(....., 0)
3. Replace column AQ with =IF(E29>ABS(D29),IF(ISERROR(FIND("(Group)",$A29)),
   VLOOKUP($E29,Complete_Karma_Math_Table,3,FALSE)-VLOOKUP(IF($D29="",0,ABS($D29)),Complete_Karma_Math_Table,3,FALSE),
   VLOOKUP($E29,Complete_Karma_Math_Table,6,FALSE)-IF($D29="",0,VLOOKUP(ABS($D29),Complete_Karma_Math_Table,6,FALSE))),0)

Then, when you want to say that a skill was raised to X as part of a group, you buy the group as normal, and give the skill a value of -X. Then the karma costs for raising beyond X are calculated appropriately.

Also, More than Metahuman (uw) is missing from the positive quality list, and the bioware/cyberware costs seem to have reverted to an older version, or something - they aren't halving the lesser of the two any more.

That is simple and elegant, and passive so that it is inherently optional. Fantastic!

Fixed Charisma, several missing qualities from unwired, and the bioware/cyberware essence costs.

Version Beta 7b

[Bobson]

That is simple and elegant, and passive so that it is inherently optional. Fantastic!

Fixed Charisma, several missing qualities from unwired, and the bioware/cyberware essence costs.

Version Beta 7a

Great. Now I need to go move the character from sheet to sheet a second time in the same day. You're too productive. Shame on you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Ehleric]

Great sheet so far Damien. I'm trying to make a magician with 7a though and I keep getting an error in the Magic sheet on cell I24, where it is trying to calculate max spells known based on the Spellcasting skill. I'm running it in OpenOffice, is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me?

[Mishra]

Hey there,
and me again - sorry for always having a new point ^^'
This time it's the calculation of karmacost with the attributes again.
Whenever you raise an attribute with a natural Minimum of more than 1, it calculates the karmacost as if the minimum was one lower. So if I raise Charisma for an Elf to 2, resulting in a value of 4, it should cost me 12, but it does cost 9+12=21. For raising Agility to 2 what is 3, it equally costs an additional 6 karma. Tried this out with Orks and their Konstitution/Strenght, getting the same results.
Hope, this helps (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Best regards
Mishra

[DamienKnight]

Hey there,
and me again - sorry for always having a new point ^^'
This time it's the calculation of karmacost with the attributes again.
Whenever you raise an attribute with a natural Minimum of more than 1, it calculates the karmacost as if the minimum was one lower. So if I raise Charisma for an Elf to 2, resulting in a value of 4, it should cost me 12, but it does cost 9+12=21. For raising Agility to 2 what is 3, it equally costs an additional 6 karma. Tried this out with Orks and their Konstitution/Strenght, getting the same results.
Hope, this helps (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Best regards
Mishra

Yeah, your right. Fixed in 7b.

I keep getting an error in the Magic sheet on cell I24, where it is trying to calculate max spells known based on the Spellcasting skill. I'm running it in OpenOffice, is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me?

This is because it is searching for Sorcery/Ritual spellcasting, but I have added spaces to their name so it is not finding them. Fixed in 7b the max spells formula to search for sorcery/ritual sorcery with spaces.

Sorry to have another incremental update, but these are major bugs that need fixin. Grab 7b here.

[brennanhawkwood]

Just downloaded 7b and I must say that I am quite pleased with the Generator...very good work!

I have run into a problem dealing with cyberlimbs. If it has already been reported, my apologies.

It appears that there is something not working right in the calculations dealing with the Bod, Str and Agi associated with cyberlimbs. In beta7 selecting a cyberlimb would give you #VALUE in the spots at the top of the page (Cyberparts!I4 for example) and would end up giving similar results in the CharSheet. In beta7b the error #VALUE no longer appears, but the numbers never change.

I've looked around a little to see if I could figure it out, but I think I have exceeded my meager programming skills with Excel at this point. I'm using the sheet on an XP Pro machine with MS Excel 2003 SP2 in case that is useful.

[Ehleric]

Okay, me again. Same problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I did some more digging this time around though and it may just be an Open Office problem. In the formula on the Magic tab Cell I24, the VLOOKUP function is being used to pull in the value for your Spellcasting skill for Build Points, then for Karma Points. The problem I am seeing is that when building a character with just build points the first function works fine and I get the value I have for Spellcasting. When it does the second check however, it finds the skill but the points column is empty. It returns an empty value to the formula... which then promptly falls apart. I'm not sure if Excell handles the function differently or not. If it's empty, does it return a 0? Is there some way to tell it to do that? It seems to me that would solve the problem... but unfortunately my Spreadsheet programming skill isn't quite high enough to figure it out yet.

[imrtlcomp]

DamienKnight

Thanks for the refrence fix.
But I am still having issues with the main page. When I open the document macros are disabled and I can see where the optional rules are. I also found the diagram where the check boxes are in cells BO14 through BT23

When I enable the macros the box moves over but the check boxes do not. When I go over to them I can check them. Although if I check the Karma system the options for the races show up in the box correctly.

I am sure that this is a bug with Excel 2007 but I don't know how to fix this one.

Dice Roller work just fine.

I think you have done a excelent job with this sheet.

[merashin]

not sure if you noticed, but on sapient critters it won't let you raise magic unless your a mage/mystic adept/physad

[Sceptic]

In Z3 you should probably have: =IF(AND(Standard_Races_Free;Karma_Build_System);"Infection";"Race")

Also, one tweak I tend to make is setting resources equal to the minimum of 250000 and 5000 * the number of build points remaining. This removes what I regard as a superfluous decision.

[Dakka Dakka]

First of all great work on the character sheet!

I have found some minor problems with it:

1. In Office 97 for some reason the Magic and Technomancer sheets are hidden. Even if the appropriate quality is selected they remain hidden. Otherwise the sheet works.
2. The sheet does not work correctly with OpenOffice 3. Are there plans to reintroduce OO compatibilty?
3. There doesn't seem to be a way to break up groups during character creation with the BP-method, though this is not completely illegal.[Edit]It does work if you remove the protection from the sheet and manually enter the suggested amount from cell AB13 into cell AA13. Also the Comment on the latter cell is misleading, as it speaks of breaking up the group after character creation.[/edit]
4. Reducing essence and subsequently magic with cyber- or bioware screws up the BP cost. MAG 5 in a character with essence loss between 0.1 and 1 point should be 65 not 40. Or is there a mistake on my part?
5. The Code of Conduct quality seems to be missing.
6. The modded weapons page does not seem to support weapons that have stock options for accessories, like the Ruger Thunderbolt with or without Smartgun System.
7. There is no way i see to modify melee weapons. At least plasteel components and personalized grip would make sense. Weapon commlink and Weapon personality are debatable but another Lilarcor or Enserric could be fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
8. I have discovered some problems with the calculation of recoil compensation. Optional RC like from a folding stock is not calculated correctly. Adding a gas vent to a weapon with a folding stock is shown as 3(1) instead of 3(4).
   Replacing a stock gas vent 2 system with level 3 still takes up two slots.
   The underbarrel weight is not cumulative with a gas vent, which it should be.
9. There does not seem to be a way to remove built in modifications from a weapon
10. What does the Alt: field (L6) mean?
11. Mystic Armor and maneuvres do not show up on the character sheet

[Cabral]

The sheet does not work correctly with OpenOffice 3. Are there plans to reintroduce OO compatibilty?

I'm using OpenOffice 3. I haven't seen any problems yet, but I've only just upgraded and haven't monkeyed as much as when I first grabbed the sheet. Where are the problems?

[Dakka Dakka]

First of all OO claims that there are links to other files and asks if i want to update them. What other files?

On the Main sheet the Check Buttons for Karma or BP Creation do not exist.

The Martial Arts Advantages are red on yellow background even though the appropriate quality was selected.

Also the different skills and qualities on the CharSheet are not sorted right. It looks something like this Skill ASkill B   12 instead of
Skill A   1
Skill B   2

That's just what I found with a quick look.

Oh i found some more things (in excel):

1. Specializations for knowledge skills cost 4 BP if you are over the limit of (LOG+INT)*3 or 2 of those points
2. Attributes improved by Cyber- or Bioware are listed as total on the CharSheet not as Natural Attribute(Augmented Attribute)
3. Specialized skill ratings should be listed like this 1(+2) not as 1(3) as the specialization does not improve the skill rating but adds two bonus dice.

[Ehleric]

I have noticed some of those problems as well Dakka.

I think the skill list one is just a formatting issue, if you put a specialization in a skill so that it lists SkillA 4(6) all of the rest of the numbers will line up properly with their associated skills. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the parentheses turning it from a numeric quantity to a string.

[Bobson]

There doesn't seem to be a way to break up groups during character creation with the BP-method, though this is not completely illegal.[Edit]It does work if you remove the protection from the sheet and manually enter the suggested amount from cell AB13 into cell AA13. Also the Comment on the latter cell is misleading, as it speaks of breaking up the group after character creation.[/edit]

Since it's not RAW-legal, and it'd be a pain to support (it took long enough to come up with a way to support breaking up groups afterchargen), it probably won't be implemented, although that's always DK's call. I think for minor rule breaking, unprotecting the sheet and changing it by hand is sufficient.

Reducing essence and subsequently magic with cyber- or bioware screws up the BP cost. MAG 5 in a character with essence loss between 0.1 and 1 point should be 65 not 40. Or is there a mistake on my part?

Did you put in that you were buying 5 magic, or was your magic rating 5 after taking essence into account (i.e. you put in 6)? (The final values show up a few columns over). If the former, it's certainly wrong, if the latter, that's intended behavior - you put in your base stats, and then they get adjusted for racial modifiers, essence loss, and so on.

Mystic Armor and maneuvres do not show up on the character sheet

I asked about mystic armor - the response was that since it listed under powers, it didn't need to add in to armor as well.

First of all OO claims that there are links to other files and asks if i want to update them. What other files?

I've noticed this too. I've never noticed any difference no matter what I pick. It's a bit odd, though.

[Dakka Dakka]

Since it's not RAW-legal, and it'd be a pain to support (it took long enough to come up with a way to support breaking up groups afterchargen), it probably won't be implemented, although that's always DK's call. I think for minor rule breaking, unprotecting the sheet and changing it by hand is sufficient.

As i corrected myself it does work. But for some reason the cell is protected. Btw what counts as RAW? The FAQ state that they advise against it but they don't forbid it either.

Did you put in that you were buying 5 magic, or was your magic rating 5 after taking essence into account (i.e. you put in 6)? (The final values show up a few columns over). If the former, it's certainly wrong, if the latter, that's intended behavior - you put in your base stats, and then they get adjusted for racial modifiers, essence loss, and so on.

I put in 6 (Cell bpMagic) for 65 BP shown in Cell AA5, the modified magic Attribute (modMagic) is 6 as well. After I added a synaptic booster, modMagic is 5 as it should be, but AA5 is at 40 BP and P11 is at 6 and red. If you enter 5 in bpMagic after the 'ware AA5 increases to 55 but modMagic at 4?!

I asked about mystic armor - the response was that since it listed under powers, it didn't need to add in to armor as well.

I just realise that there is no list for the 'ware on CharSheet. OK, but both the list and the calculated mystic armor would be nice.

[DamienKnight]

First of all OO claims that there are links to other files and asks if i want to update them. What other files?

I believe this may be due to the way Excel wraps sheet references in single quotes when the sheet name has spaces in it. The new character data mapping sheets were like this. I changed the spaces in their names to underscores and corrected related 'Names'. Hopefully this will fix it, but I only have Excel 2003 which does not get that error.

On the Main sheet the Check Buttons for Karma or BP Creation do not exist.

They do in excel 2003.

The Martial Arts Advantages are red on yellow background even though the appropriate quality was selected.

I am not seeing this problem on my sheet. Which Styles/bonuses etc. did you choose? You must select a style for each advantage, so you cannot just put Aikido Once, then select two advantages. Each advantage must list AIKIDO next to it. I did notice that cell AE33 was empty when it should have a formula similar to the cells below, but that would only affect the first martial arts advantage slot. BTW, AE33 fixed for next version.

Also the different skills and qualities on the CharSheet are not sorted right. It looks something like this Skill ASkill B   12 instead of
Skill A   1
Skill B   2

Nope. Looks great on Excel 2003. If you would like to create a charsheet that works nicely in OO, I will include it in the list of selectable charsheets to print. Hopefully when the data outputting is completed this will be a moot point.

Specializations for knowledge skills cost 4 BP if you are over the limit of (LOG+INT)*3 or 2 of those points

I dont know about that, but I changed the way those are calculated so they don't count towards the free knowledge skill limit.

Attributes improved by Cyber- or Bioware are listed as total on the CharSheet not as Natural Attribute(Augmented Attribute)

Interesting. Perhaps this will be addressed in the future.

Specialized skill ratings should be listed like this 1(+2) not as 1(3) as the specialization does not improve the skill rating but adds two bonus dice.

yes, lets use the format suggested by the book, it does make sense. Fixed in next version.

[Dakka Dakka]

I think you misunderstood me DamienKnight. The four issues you quoted first work fine in microsoft office 97 als well, but they are a problem with OpenOffice.

As for the martial arts, when you open the sheet in OpenOffice cells AJ33:AJ39 are already yellow. Once you select one of the martial arts positive qualities, AG:33AG39 abnd the maneuvre cells become green, but even if you select a style and a corresponding advantage, AJ33:AJ39 remain yellow with red letters.

[Cabral]

First of all OO claims that there are links to other files and asks if i want to update them. What other files?

There is a reference to a location within the workbook (Workbook#location) which it handles as an html bookmark. That's the only "external" file I know of. It's a reference to the same workbook but it's handled as an external link.

On the Main sheet the Check Buttons for Karma or BP Creation do not exist.

In Open Office, you modify Cells AG14:AG16 and AG18:AG22 directly.

The Martial Arts Advantages are red on yellow background even though the appropriate quality was selected.

There doesn't seem to be any error checking for the Martial Arts.

Also the different skills and qualities on the CharSheet are not sorted right. It looks something like this Skill ASkill B 12 instead of
Skill A 1
Skill B 2

Ah. It doesn't seem to be registering the char(10) in the formula for the skill value. Odd. Near as I can tell, it should work

[brennanhawkwood]

Also the different skills and qualities on the CharSheet are not sorted right. It looks something like this Skill ASkill B 12 instead of
Skill A 1
Skill B 2

Ah. It doesn't seem to be registering the char(10) in the formula for the skill value. Odd. Near as I can tell, it should work

I was messing with a character using the spreadsheet in OpenOffice last night and noticed the skills being listed wrong (on the charSheet) as well. It seemed to be doing this:

Skill 234
Skill
Skill

instead of:

Skill 2
Skill 3
Skill 4

If I added a skill with no skill rating the display generally started to work right. Sometimes once the display was correct I could add a number as the rating for that last skill and the display on the character sheet would stay correct, but not always.

[Cabral]

Weird. Now it seems to be messing up on the skills list too. SkillSkillSkill 234.

I suspect the problem is related to OpenOffice's difficulty with large updates. though, that's not the entirety of the problem. If it were, it would update properly after a moment. Interestingly, including a specialization causes the skill names to line up (ratings are still wonky)

I'll see if I can massage the formulas to work properly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Unnamed Technoma...]

i was wondering can you add something that will allow me to add program options to complex forms?

also when looking at immersion for Technomancers there is a place for Mesh (groups) but no place for an Ordeal thus the cost is to high

i noticed in P11 it states "=IF(L11<>"",MAX(N11,O10,1)+AM11,0)" and it needs to be "=IF(L11<>"",MAX(N11,karmaMagic,1)+AM11,0)"

and one last thing, when you select a technomancer shouldn't the living Persona info show up on the CharSheet under Commlink?

[Blind Guardian]

First of all, thanks for all your hard work on the character generator. This is an incredibly useful program.

I've only run into one rather curious bug so far. I'm using Excel 2000, and everything seems to work fine in BP Gen mode. If I switch to Karma Gen, I'm having an issue with the magic stat. If I choose a Magician, Adept, or Mystic Adept, the Magic attribute is not being calculated properly. If I fill in a value for magic before all other stats, the stat stays at 1 no matter what value I put in for magic, though the karma cost is calculated and deducted from my karma point total. Once I fill in a value for the Edge attribute, Edge overrides Magic and is used instead. If I give a character an Edge of 4, suddenly magic changes to 4 in all relevant fields.

[Dumori]

that is due to a cell refrance being wrong. came across this with my technomacer it links to the edge cell not the magic/resonance.

[DamienKnight]

First I want to say, Thanks to Dakka Dakka and all those OO users who help me make this sheet more compatible with the wise OO users.

Now some rambling:
If I did not already have Excel provided by my work I would bite off my left hand before I paid microsoft for something I can get for free from a community established by Sun. My father worked for Sun for a decade and has convinced me the wondrous wisdom in Open Source. As a professional programmer I feel I must make a note that there is a difference between sharing knowledge and stealing it, and if you pirate software you are stealing food from the tables of hardworking people. That said, knowledge increases at a much quicker rate if techniques are shared freely, rather than lamely protected with copyrights.

I think you misunderstood me DamienKnight. The four issues you quoted first work fine in microsoft office 97 als well, but they are a problem with OpenOffice.

As for the martial arts, when you open the sheet in OpenOffice cells AJ33:AJ39 are already yellow. Once you select one of the martial arts positive qualities, AG:33AG39 abnd the maneuvre cells become green, but even if you select a style and a corresponding advantage, AJ33:AJ39 remain yellow with red letters.

No, I do not misunderstand you. I know you are on open office. When I look at a problem and say 'It works on Excel 2003' I am saying, that is my only test environment and that is all I can guarantee. I do work to make things compatible with OO, but its difficult without having it to test with.

The first quote about external references... I was aiming my reply at OO users. The problem never manifests in Excel so long as there are not any actual outside references. I theorize that the problem has to do with single quotes in the 'Names'. I think this is fixed, we will see when 8 gets tested on OO.

As for the comment about skills not displaying correctly... I checked again and found some issues, and have them mostly worked out.

when you select a technomancer shouldn't the living Persona info show up on the CharSheet under Commlink?

Nope, this appears in the Technomancer page, which is the perfect place for it.

I've only run into one rather curious bug so far. I'm using Excel 2000, and everything seems to work fine in BP Gen mode. If I switch to Karma Gen, I'm having an issue with the magic stat. If I choose a Magician, Adept, or Mystic Adept, the Magic attribute is not being calculated properly. If I fill in a value for magic before all other stats, the stat stays at 1 no matter what value I put in for magic, though the karma cost is calculated and deducted from my karma point total. Once I fill in a value for the Edge attribute, Edge overrides Magic and is used instead. If I give a character an Edge of 4, suddenly magic changes to 4 in all relevant fields.

Yeah, the relationship between essence and magic is messed up and I am going to have to fix it. Thanks to those who pointed this one out to me.