[X] My Assistant

[Game2BHappy]

First off: wow. Well done dk! I look forward to building my next character in here.

I saw a couple things that are reeeaaally minor in scope and since i didn't go through all the pages in this topic please forgive me if they've already been mentioned:

[ Spoiler ]

Started playing with it today and couldn't get the "Efficient Dice Roller" to roll a glitch with 2 dice (which should be pretty common). I tried ... well I don't want to tell you how much time I wasted trying ... many times w/o success. The verbose roller seemed to work fine. Also, it could have been odd luck, but it was rolling an inordinate amount of successes when I chose 2 dice: over half my rolls were 2 out of 2 with the efficient dice roller. When I chose 100 dice, however, it seemed to work just right (about 1/3).

Tab "Initiation_Group", Cell F17 there is a typo "Max Initiaion Level" should read "Max Initiation Level"

I also like the idea of a codeblock format someone mentioned earlier.
Thanks for all the work you have put into this!

[SpellBinder]

I am just curious, where can I read the rules for purchasing a quality with karma after creating with BP system? I was not aware of these rules when I setup the quality sheet.

<snip>

If you want to get new qualities after character creation, just add them and put a negative karma entry in the karma log. Your BP does not matter once the character is out of creation mode, and you cannot spend Karma in the BP system until the character has already been put into play.

It's lengthy, but here's the source and a C&P for your reading pleasure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) :

Other Improvements

Karma may also be spent to buy new positive qualities, remove old negative qualities, and learn spells and complex forms, as noted below. Awakened characters use Karma for initiation (p. 198) and bonding foci (p. 199), just as technomancers may use Karma for submersion (p. 243).

Positive Qualities

If the gamemaster chooses, he can “award” a character with a new positive quality. This should only be done if the quality is appropriate to the character and her recent developments—the character must have worked hard or changed in some way that fits the awarded quality. Some qualities represent a major change, so there should be a good reason for why the character has transformed that way. Players will undoubtedly lobby their gamemasters to “award” them with qualities, but the gamemaster should only award them rarely and after significant effort/events; the gamemaster could even craft an adventure to dramatize the change.

The quality does not come for free, however—the character must pay for the quality at a cost equal to twice the quality’s BP cost. If the character does not have the Karma to pay for the quality, any new Karma she earns immediately goes to pay off the quality cost; the character may not spend Karma on anything else until it the quality is paid in full.

Note that some qualities might also be considered innate—not something a character could ever learn—and so should not be awarded (ambidexterity, for example). The Adept, Magician, Mystic Adept, and Technomancer qualities may not be awarded; they may only be obtained during character creation.

Note that if a gamemaster ever decides that a positive quality is no longer appropriate for a character, that quality may be permanently removed. The character is not “reimbursed” in any way for the lost points.

In short it's GM's discretion in buying a new positive quality. And with SM & Unwired there's some obvious exceptions on the Adept, Magician, Mystic Adept, and Technomancer qualities, but I'm sure most of us are aware of the "Latent *whatever*" positive qualities already.

[DamienKnight]

It's lengthy, but here's the source and a C&P for your reading pleasure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) :

In short it's GM's discretion in buying a new positive quality. And with SM & Unwired there's some obvious exceptions on the Adept, Magician, Mystic Adept, and Technomancer qualities, but I'm sure most of us are aware of the "Latent *whatever*" positive qualities already.

With that in mind, I think the best solution is to have two checkbox columns, not one. One for marking the quality as 'FREE' and one for marking the quality as 'PAID KARMA TO REMOVE'.

When a GM awards the new positive quality, you would select FREE. If the GM decided to charge karma for a certain awarded positive quality, or award karma to a player in return for adding another Negative quality, they could note any adjustment like that in the Karma Log.

The existing checkbox needs to stay put. If you start with a quality but lose it during gameplay, it should exist on your sheet forever, but in a 'removed' state, so that it does not print on your charsheet and keeps its strikethrough.

Thanks for the reference. Putting the text in your post saves me a bit of time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ShadowWalker]

As far as gaining qualities go there are several ways in which you could get one after creation.

For positive qualities you could get it for free from the GM, or you could buy it with karma.
For negative qualities you could get it for free (odd things to say really as they have a built in price to pay), or the GM could give it to you along with receiving karma.

For getting rid of them, you would probably get karma for loosing a positive one, or not depending on the GM and how you lost it,
and getting rid of a negative one would cost karma.

In one game I played the GM gave a negative quality and an offsetting positive quality to go along with it.

[Fix-it]

I have used Open Office and found no trouble using the cyberparts page.

apologies for the delay in responding. the specific problem I have in versions 1k onward is that the Cyberparts page seems to be nonfunctional. I am unable to click any of the options, to choose a type of cybereyes, for example.

this problem does not exist in version 1j, so I've been using that.

openoffice 3.2.1 build 9502, if that helps.

like I said, been using 1j with no problems, so don't strain yourself, it is probably be something on my end.

[SpellBinder]

Sounds like the same that I experience with the cyberware, where from version 1k and on I've had to edit the sheet to remove some conflicts to get it to work. If that version of Open Office is laid out like Excell 2007, I can help.

[DamienKnight]

Version m is available now.

SR4CG_DK_1m.zip

Version m includes one new feature and alot of fixes:

- NEW customizable settings presets
- Fixed prices on Skillsoft Clusters. Rtg1 for original SR4 prices, rtg 2 for sr4a prices
- Fixed issue where Martial Arts Is Not a Quality caused BP gen characters to pay twice for Martial Arts advantages
- Fixed Betameth price and added Breakable Tooth Storage Compartments
- Added prices for Passkeys and Passkey systems
- Fixed warning where player spends more than half points on stats… added Racial cost x2 to the threshold
- Added ratings for audio enhancements, changed ECM on hacking page to ECCM
- Added ratings to Sensor Cameras, fixed Sonar Gear naming issue
- Vehicle upgrades will now affect handling where appropriate. Added body mod calculation for Motorcycle sidecars

The settings page now has a dropdown for selecting presets. There is the 'default', which includes the settings I recommend. There is a 'RAW', 'RAW with Options', 'High Power', and two versions for the Shadowrun Character Archive Redux (RAW Karma, and Low Powered Karma System)

[Dakka Dakka]

Ah I missed the custom column in the Settings sheet. I forst thought you could only select the presets.

I guess with the presets we will be in disagreement again on how RAW the stacking Cyberlimb armor is. Don't let that stop you though. As long as both options are available, I'm happy.

Thanks for the update, and keep up the good work.

[ShadowWalker]

The area for spending karma on languages and knowledge skills is not properly decreasing the amount of karma remaining in version m.
Also, putting a k on negative qualities would be an easy way to denote negative qualities gained after creation.

Edit: Just to be clear I'm using Open Office 3.2.1, and the previous version seemed to work properly.

[SpellBinder]

So far so good, DK. I've still got the issue with the cyberware grades in Excel 2007, but what you did half worked. Now I've only got one item to fix instead of two, the Grade list that expands the area to include the Adapsin cyberware grade options once Adapsin has been selected. There's still a conflict in that where the cyberware grade cannot be selected at all. Deleting this and recreating it may also work in resolving this issue once and for all.

Added: Oh, also found that the cell for a dracoform's breath weapon on the Magic sheet is protected. Figure it'd be a problem for those who don't know how to format a cell's protection.

[Wizard_Thoarin]

Greetings Everyone,

I like this tool, but I'm hoping I'm missing something since I just started playing around with the 1mPre version and just now downloaded the full 1m version. Anyway, I'm trying to recreate the Bounty Hunter in the SR 20th Anniversary edition and I don't see a way to enter any of the specializations like:

Blades (knives +2) 1

Is specializations supported in any way or do I just have to type Knives 3 under the blades 1 skill and ignore going over in the BP cost?

Thanks,

Wizard Thoarin

[SpellBinder]

There's a column labeled "BPSpec" one short of the far right of the active skills list on the Main_Sheet (the very far right is "KarmaSpec"). Put anything in that box for the active skill, and type in whatever specialization you want in the row just below it. Specializations show up accordingly on the printable CharSheet.

So for example, from the drop down list you'd choose Blades, in the BP column you'd enter 1, in the BPSpec column you'd put in anything (I usually use an X), and in the drop down list below Blades you'd type in Knives and leave the rest of the row blank.

[Fix-it]

my problem is now fixed with the new version. seems fully compatible with the latest version of Openoffice on win7

[Wizard_Thoarin]

Thanks for the info SpellBinder, that helped a lot.

I have one other question and, again building the Bounty Hunter from the SR 20th Anniversary Book. The Synthacardium rating 1 (bioware) does not seem to be adding to the Athletics Skill Group like it should, or its not putting a +1 next to the skill.

I'm using Windows Vista and Office 2007. I also let office 2007 save it as a native 2007 XLSM workbook with macro's enabled. Is this a problem with Office 2007, my allowing it to be converted to a 2007 XLSM file, or just not part of the sheet yet?

Thanks,

Wizard Thoarin

[SpellBinder]

NP Wizard_Thoarin. And honestly I've never had any real issues with the file in an XLSM format, and found that it's about half the size at the same time (version 1m is 1.29MB as an XLSM vs. 3.39MB as an XLS).

[Mäx]

The settings page now has a dropdown for selecting presets. There is the 'default', which includes the settings I recommend. There is a 'RAW', 'RAW with Options', 'High Power', and two versions for the Shadowrun Character Archive Redux (RAW Karma, and Low Powered Karma System)

These are kinda nice, but it would be much nicer if the presets marked as RAW where actually RAW.
IE. the funkily named and badly explained "house rule" for cyber armor should be on in both of those.

[DamienKnight]

Ah I missed the custom column in the Settings sheet. I forst thought you could only select the presets.

I guess with the presets we will be in disagreement again on how RAW the stacking Cyberlimb armor is. Don't let that stop you though. As long as both options are available, I'm happy.

Thanks for the update, and keep up the good work.

These are kinda nice, but it would be much nicer if the presets marked as RAW where actually RAW.
IE. the funkily named and badly explained "house rule" for cyber armor should be on in both of those.

ALERT, OPINION ABOUT TO BE EXPRESSED!
************************************
* Its a sad misinterpretation of the rule.
* Any rule that allows for 20 armor while
* naked is completely broken.
************************************

A fringe benefit of authoring all these changes to the sheet is that I get to put the real Raw in as I see it.

You have three options for recourse:

1. You can modify any of the presets using the column directly to the right of where the values are displayed.

2. If your warped minds (heh j/k) are too annoyed by this option, you can always go to the Misc Data page and alter the Table that the presets read off of.

3. You can not use the sheet.

This is a plethora of options, all that end with you having an uber pimp cyber god starting character using your *ahem* Raw rules.

Please do not waste your efforts attempting to sway me in this matter. I have read the thread discussing it and the arguments are not compelling. I dont care if Errata elaborated that all mages should automatically start as Grade 10 initiates for free, I would not put it in the sheet. Call me a kook.

If you like, whenever a new version of the sheet is released you can go in and edit the sheet to your hearts content and re-release it as 'The_REAL_SR4CG_with_actual_RAW_rules_not_the_dumb_crap_that_DK_releases.zip' or whatever. Thats a great thing about releasing a spreadsheet without password protection... its easy for anyone to change and redistribute, so have fun!

[Draco18s]

ALERT, OPINION ABOUT TO BE EXPRESSED!
************************************
* Its a sad misinterpretation of the rule.
* Any rule that allows for 20 armor while
* naked is completely broken.
************************************

I know we've beaten this horse to death, but:
Said rule allows 20 armor while naked after spending a "small" fortune buying a tank and then putting your brain-in-a-jar into said tank.
It's like saying the rigger riding around in an armored crypod motor cycle is "cheap."

That said, it's your sheet.

[ShadowWalker]

So has anyone else had the problems I've had with spending karma on languages and knowledge skills not decreasing karma?
Or at least not decreasing the amount of karma remaining area on the main sheet.

Also of note:
There is no area in the Technomancer sheet for submersion to denote that a submersion tasks was done, and hence a 20% decrease in the cost.
The area to select or type in your Stream does not allow for simple typing, although the Comment for the cell says you are supposed to be able to do so.
Having an area to define a Network for technomancers, similar to the Initiation Group sheet would be nice as well. They are setup almost identically, with only a few changes, as some of the strictures are probably not relevant, or would need a name change to make them so.
It would also be nice to have an area to state that a sprite, and probably spirit was registered/bound during game place, and so does not cost BP/Karma in the build.

[Mäx]

Sorry, just had to do this.
The_REAL_SR4CG_with_actual_RAW_rules_not_the_dumb_crap_that_DK_releases.zip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Only thinks changed is that the RAW presets have the cyber armor "house rule" on as well has the reduced price option selected for all races in karmagen, as the pay race BP cost in karma is the rule in the German RC(that includes errata) and in the latest printing of the English RC(that also includes errata). or so i have at least heard, can't verify as i have neither of those.

[Dakka Dakka]

I know we've beaten this horse to death, but:
Said rule allows 20 armor while naked after spending a "small" fortune buying a tank and then putting your brain-in-a-jar into said tank.
It's like saying the rigger riding around in an armored crypod motor cycle is "cheap."

The point is that you don't put your brain in a jar and interface it with a cyborg adapted drone. You get the whole set of cyberlimbs including torso and skull and take the maximum cyber armor allowed (22 in total) and miss out on all the other goodies. Congratulations, you are almost immune to small arms fire but you can't do anything. The problem is the other extreme. You only get one limb, or even a partial one. No matter how much armor you put in, it will not have an effect (round down(4/6)=0) except taking up capacity. Two limbs with at least 3 armor each, will give you a single point of protection. I wouldn't bother wiith buying armor at all under those rules.

it's your sheet.

QFT

[Draco18s]

The point is that you don't put your brain in a jar and interface it with a cyborg adapted drone. You get the whole set of cyberlimbs including torso and skull and take the maximum cyber armor allowed (22 in total) and miss out on all the other goodies. Congratulations, you are almost immune to small arms fire but you can't do anything.

It's almost the same as the cyborg conversion: expensive and subpar (hell, with a cyborg conversion you still have mod slots/capacity left!)
That's all my point was.

[DamienKnight]

Sorry, just had to do this.
The_REAL_SR4CG_with_actual_RAW_rules_not_the_dumb_crap_that_DK_releases.zip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Only thinks changed is that the RAW presets have the cyber armor "house rule" on as well has the reduced price option selected for all races in karmagen, as the pay race BP cost in karma is the rule in the German RC(that includes errata) and in the latest printing of the English RC(that also includes errata). or so i have at least heard, can't verify as i have neither of those.

I did not realize there was Runners Companion Errata available. Could someone link me?

[ShadowWalker]

I've not seen any link on the official sr4 website, but then that place is not updated all that often, and I don't see anything on the official forums either.

[DamienKnight]

... as well has the reduced price option selected for all races in karmagen, as the pay race BP cost in karma is the rule in the German RC(that includes errata) and in the latest printing of the English RC(that also includes errata). or so i have at least heard, can't verify as i have neither of those.

I've not seen any link on the official sr4 website, but then that place is not updated all that often, and I don't see anything on the official forums either.

Thanks for checking ShadowWalker. I did a search myself and had the same result. Until I can find Official Errata, I am going to leave Raw set to Free.

However, my group adopted the increased cost (bp x 2 in karma for races) when we first started, when we were still using the 3 karma attribute multiplier. The meta races costs are greatly increased due to their high attributes when you factor in the 5 karma attribute multiplier, so increasing the cost of selecting a metatype is somewhat redundant.

So...

I changed the verbage for the multiplier:

It was:
Free (x 0)
Reduced (x 1)
Normal (x 2)

Now it is:
Free (x0)
Normal (x1)
High (x2)

I added another preset option to appear after RAW, 'German Raw'. It is the same as Raw except it includes the meta cost of 'Normal' (bp x 1).

The default has been left at normal, which in the new verbage means it is also the reduced (x 1) cost.

None of the presets use High. High remains available for backward compatibility, but I don't know if anyone will be using it.

Changing the verbage adds some confusion to it, but will be worth it to have an overall easier to understand Settings page.

These will be available in version N. I am looking at doing a few Technomancer fixes. If I do there will be a Technomancer specific release of M which will also include updated presets.