[X] My Assistant

[McDougle]

Hiya Guys, am i missing something, or is there no way to add specialisations?

I kinda can´t figure why a sheat of such complexity wouldn´t have that feature... I am missing it, right?

[Tyro]

Hiya Guys, am i missing something, or is there no way to add specialisations?

I kinda can´t figure why a sheat of such complexity wouldn´t have that feature... I am missing it, right?

To the right of a skill, there are columns for bp rating (for use with bpgen), rating (for karmagen or improvement after character creation), max, bpspec (bpgen again), and spec (karmagen or spec gained after creation). Put an X (or anything else, actually) in bpspec if you're using bpgen, or spec if you're using karmagen or modifying a character in play. Then enter the spec in the row immediately below the specialized skill.

[McDougle]

Thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I knew I had overlooked it somewhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tyro]

Thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I knew I had overlooked it somewhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anytime ^_^

[Thirty Second Ar...]

Huh, a couple other things I just noticed in 1M.

• Explosive arrows are listed as 75¥ each, with an availability of 8. Arsenal p.19 lists them as being 10¥ each, availability 9.
• Barbed, hammerhead, incendiary, and screamer arrows are not present. Arsenal p.19 lists costs and availability for all four of these, though the Arsenal errata changes Hammerhead arrows to Availability 5 and are 5¥ each.
• Stick-n-Shock arrows cost 13¥ each, according to the Arsenal errata. Considering that SnS bullets are 8¥ each, this will require a new entry for SnS arrows.

[Morvegil]

How do you set the magic for Mystic Adept?

[Tyro]

How do you set the magic for Mystic Adept?

If you mean the Spellcasting magic, it's in the adept powers list on the Magic tab. I think it's called adept spellcasting - look at the very top.

[TygerTyger]

First off, love this sheet. What a great resource for GMs and players. Thanks for putting this one together. My team and I have been using it since I was directed to it by Draco18 on this site, and its a huge help.

Two quick things.

1) Adept powers that ordinarily don't have ranks (Killing Hands for example) allow you to put ranks in the "Level" column and then increase the costs proportionately (so you can take Killing Hands at rank 5 for 2.5 Power Points). Is this intended?

2) When you purchase a skill group, and then want to increase only one skill within the group, you are charged full price for the skill. For example, if you take Conjuring (Group) at 4 ranks, and then buy Summoning at 5, it should cost 4 points but it costs 20. Is there a way around this?

[Draco18s]

1) Adept powers that ordinarily don't have ranks (Killing Hands for example) allow you to put ranks in the "Level" column and then increase the costs proportionately (so you can take Killing Hands at rank 5 for 2.5 Power Points). Is this intended?

I think so. There's not really anything that "checks" to see if a power has "ranks" or not.

2) When you purchase a skill group, and then want to increase only one skill within the group, you are charged full price for the skill. For example, if you take Conjuring (Group) at 4 ranks, and then buy Summoning at 5, it should cost 4 points but it costs 20. Is there a way around this?

There's a box up near the total point calculation for "breaking skill group BP refund" that allows you to fix that.

[TygerTyger]

Alrighty, and thanks for the catch on that skill thing. Love this builder. Makes building a character easy and fast.

[DamienKnight]

First off, love this sheet. What a great resource for GMs and players. Thanks for putting this one together. My team and I have been using it since I was directed to it by Draco18 on this site, and its a huge help.

Two quick things.

1) Adept powers that ordinarily don't have ranks (Killing Hands for example) allow you to put ranks in the "Level" column and then increase the costs proportionately (so you can take Killing Hands at rank 5 for 2.5 Power Points). Is this intended?

2) When you purchase a skill group, and then want to increase only one skill within the group, you are charged full price for the skill. For example, if you take Conjuring (Group) at 4 ranks, and then buy Summoning at 5, it should cost 4 points but it costs 20. Is there a way around this?

1. The adept powers were not checking against the MAX value in the Adept_Data tab. Thanks for pointing this out. I went ahead and fixed it in version N.

2. There are two cells on the Main_Sheet below your 'Build Points' Total (cell AD14 and AD14). When you expand out a skill group into individual skills, you dont want to pay for all of it. You can figure out how much you are overpaying and enter the value in the 'Skill Group Expand BP' or 'Skill Group Expand Karma' cells, and it will subtract that cost from your total.

An alternative method which involves entering negative values into the skills rating.. or skill group rating or something. I do not recall exactly what it was, but you can find it buried in this thread somewhere (I think Bobson pointed it out?).

Those two methods work with version m. After you pointed this OLD OLD problem out, I decided to go back and give the attribute cost calculations another look, and using my aged spreadsheet skills I figured out a way to have skill group costs removed automatically. So in version N of the sheet, you can simply add BOTH the group and the individual skills into your sheet and it calculates what the cost would be, assuming that your skills were raised above your group rating. The sheet will also highlight as an error any skill rating where the skill value is lower than the group's value.

The only situation this does NOT work for according to RAW is when you have a skill group, raise an individual skill above the group, then raise the skill group. In that situation, according to the book, you will have ended up paying for raising the individual skill above the group's level AND paid for the raising the group.

IE. You have Athletics group of 2, costing 20 karma. You then decide to raise your Gymnastics to 3, which costs you 6 more karma, for a total cost of 26. Later down the road you decide to raise your Athletics group up to 3. This costs 10 more karma, for a total cost of 36. You end up with an Athletics of 3 and Gymnastics of 3 for more than just the plain cost of getting Athletics of 3.

According to the book, you are supposed to just be screwed out of that 6 karma. (Seems fair to me).

Since the sheet does not know what order you raise your skills (And barring a dedicated Skills tab with historical Skill changes it never will) then it assumes that you Raised your Athletics to 3 and THEN broke out your Gymanstics of 3, so it only charges you 30 for the group.

Some groups will be ok with this. If your group is not, then simply put a -6 value in the 'Skill Group Expand Karma' slot to give yourself a -6 karma penalty.... or Put a -6 karma entry on the Karma_Log page, with a note for the reason.

I think alot of people yearn for this auto-skill group calculation, so I am looking to publish version N soon. (As soon as I catch up with all the Price updates yall pointed out!)

On a side note:

I spoke about a Calendar a few months ago. I have spent some time working on it and it is coming along... but I quickly decided that a good Shadowrun calendar is going to require its own spreadsheet. I will continue to develope the calendar alongside the Character Generator, and when it is done I may import a miniature version of it into the Character Sheet.

Currently the Calendar has an Overview tab where you see a list of all months in the year you are examining, then each month on the calendar is a clickable link which takes you to a sheet dedicated to that specific month. There is a settings page where you specify the starting year and month, then the sheet dynamically calculates the Months/Years for the 12 month period starting at the month you defined. Running this through testing I have seen it work perfectly with far future dates, such as 2072.

I am developing the Calendar in a general format currently. It has nothing Shadowrun specific on it yet. I am working on adding a task sheet that then triggers a display on the months for each task, marking them from start to finish. Once it is in a usable state, I will publish it here to get the Dumpshock community opinion then I will begin specializing the sheet for Shadowrun usage.

In the mean time, expect version N within a week!

[TygerTyger]

<A bunch of awesome stuff>

In the mean time, expect version N within a week!

DamienKnight, I assume you hear it a lot, but you are awesome. This is a great project, and for you to go to all this work, and make it accessible to thousands of people you don't know and will never meet, is beyond great.

Hats off to you.

[Tyro]

DamienKnight, I assume you hear it a lot, but you are awesome. This is a great project, and for you to go to all this work, and make it accessible to thousands of people you don't know and will never meet, is beyond great.

Hats off to you.

Well put. Seconded.

[DamienKnight]

If the character has any kind of augmentations, like from bodyware cyberware, bioware, or adept powers, the augmented physical attributes show up in the braces. Thus a troll/western Adept with the Improved Attribute (Body) power at level one would have a Body of 9 [10] in the dracoform column (which is what you would use while actually in your dracoform).

Yes, on the Main sheet the 'Base','Raise' and 'Modified' columns show your stats in human form. The 'Dracoform' column shows your stats in your Dracoform, with your MODIFIED stats in braces.

The printable character sheet on the 'CharSheet' page shows Cyber/Magic modified stats in Brackets, then Modified Drake states to the right in Parenthesis.

This is actually bogus in some cases, where cyberware should not be allowed. Technically Cyberware only works in Human form, and becomes useless in Dracoform.

In all cases I have seen, Drake players are not cyber-characters. If you decide to do a Drake Sammy, then please note the bogus stats. If it becomes a real issue, I can always change the spreadsheet calculation, but I really like the way it works now (where it is based off your averaged attributes from the Cyberparts page) and would rather not rework the formulas just for one odd character.

Small typos in the background tab:

out (question 1, word 5) should be our.
hight (question 1, sentence 2, word 5) should be height.
likley (question 4, sentence 2, word 2) should be likely.

Fixed in N. This inspired me to run a spell check on the page, it should be all straightened out.

[DamienKnight]

DamienKnight, I assume you hear it a lot, but you are awesome. This is a great project, and for you to go to all this work, and make it accessible to thousands of people you don't know and will never meet, is beyond great.

Hats off to you.

People do say it alot, but I cant hear it enough. The truth is if I did not have the dumpshock community's help through bug finding, feature suggesting and encouragement, I would never have gotten past the first beta version.

It has been fun work, and beneficial to me professionally. I am an Analyst and spend most of my time designing, programming and fixing data transportation scripts. When I started I only knew a minimal bit of excel, but found myself learning fast since the Company I work for had most of their reporting done out of Access and Excel. I learned a bit of excel on the job, but knew I needed to be better. When I found the spreadsheet by Arturkis/Blakkie I saw great potential, and began changing the sheet to fit the needs of my group. After my group quit, I wouldve stopped working on the sheet except for all of the response I got on the forums.

The sheet has been a boon to me, training my excel-fu so that I am better at my job, and keeping me interested in SR through the RP dry patches. Mostly though, it has just been fun to see the sheet get better and better through the months (actually years I guess, since I started this in 2008).

So again, I think I have gained much more from the community than have gotten from it, and I appreciate every ones input on this thread.

You sly cutters are the real deal, and can run with me anytime.

[DamienKnight]

Hoorj, more bug reports for version 1M.
...

For Simdeck, where the book says 1000+ without specifying a definite range of values, I decided to set the price to a base of 500 + 500 per rating. This comes out to 1000 for rating 1, 1500 for rating 2, 2000 for rating 3, etc.

This is a rough estimate that will allow you to pay as much as you want for a simdeck. If anyone finds more specific prices/examples in a future book, please post it.

Thanks so much for all these prices. I have FINALLY put them all into the sheet. I must say it was a big help, and seeing all the work you put into that post I was inspired to spend some more time on the sheet!

[Thirty Second Ar...]

For Simdeck, where the book says 1000+ without specifying a definite range of values, I decided to set the price to a base of 500 + 500 per rating. This comes out to 1000 for rating 1, 1500 for rating 2, 2000 for rating 3, etc.

This is a rough estimate that will allow you to pay as much as you want for a simdeck. If anyone finds more specific prices/examples in a future book, please post it.

That is a far more elegant solution than I came up with, which was just to use the build-your-own-item spaces and fill in GM-supplied information.

Thanks so much for all these prices Hoorj. I have FINALLY put them all into the sheet. I must say it was a big help, and seeing all the work you put into that post I was inspired to spend some more time on the sheet!

Glad to help!

[Dakka Dakka]

The only situation this does NOT work for according to RAW is when you have a skill group, raise an individual skill above the group, then raise the skill group. In that situation, according to the book, you will have ended up paying for raising the individual skill above the group's level AND paid for the raising the group.

IE. You have Athletics group of 2, costing 20 karma. You then decide to raise your Gymnastics to 3, which costs you 6 more karma, for a total cost of 26. Later down the road you decide to raise your Athletics group up to 3. This costs 10 more karma, for a total cost of 36. You end up with an Athletics of 3 and Gymnastics of 3 for more than just the plain cost of getting Athletics of 3.

According to the book, you are supposed to just be screwed out of that 6 karma. (Seems fair to me).

Since the sheet does not know what order you raise your skills (And barring a dedicated Skills tab with historical Skill changes it never will) then it assumes that you Raised your Athletics to 3 and THEN broke out your Gymanstics of 3, so it only charges you 30 for the group.

Some groups will be ok with this. If your group is not, then simply put a -6 value in the 'Skill Group Expand Karma' slot to give yourself a -6 karma penalty.... or Put a -6 karma entry on the Karma_Log page, with a note for the reason.

It does not work that way by RAW. If you raise an individual skill in a skill group you already have, the skill group ceases to exist. In your example you would not have Athletics 2 Gymnastics 3 but Gymnastics 3, Climbing 2, Running 2, Swimming 2. To be able to raise the whole group you would have to raise all other skills to 3.

If a character improves any skill in a skill group individually instead of improving the group, the remaining skills are
treated as individual skills with individual levels from that point—in other words, the skill group no longer exists.

I'm pretty sure there is also a quote about raising individual skill to the same level and making it a group, but I can't find it right now.

[DamienKnight]

It does not work that way by RAW. If you raise an individual skill in a skill group you already have, the skill group ceases to exist. In your example you would not have Athletics 2 Gymnastics 3 but Gymnastics 3, Climbing 2, Running 2, Swimming 2. To be able to raise the whole group you would have to raise all other skills to 3.
I'm pretty sure there is also a quote about raising individual skill to the same level and making it a group, but I can't find it right now.

Great, so if you follow the rules and never raise your Skill Groups once you have broken out the skills, then the new calculation follows the rules perfectly! Thanks for pointing that out Dakka!

In my group we had houseruled that groups and skills can be raised in any order without breaking synergy. In my personal opinion, I think they created the 'If you break the skills out the group is gone' rule because of the incremental way stat raising goes on paper. When you raise a stat on your character sheet, you are only concerned with that individual stat raise, so you dont want rules that require calculating in discounts.

When the sheet has a skill changed it recalculates the skill and its group in their entirety with 0 effort, allowing for skill group synergy to exist no matter the order of stat raising.

Also, if I say have Athletics 2 and raise Gymnastics to 3, I may not want all of my individual Athletics skills to spread out onto the skill list... I just want to know that all Athletics are 2 except Gymnastics which is 3. Version N of the sheet allows for this... or you can add all of the individual skills to to the sheet.

Just remember this... if you break out all of a skill groups skills, and then REMOVE the skill group, the sheet no longer has any idea that you shouldve had any kind of discount, so you will end up paying full price for the skills.

This is where the 'skill group expand' cells will still come into play. If you want to remove the skill group after breaking out ALL of the skills in that group, then you will have to add the karma/BP saved into the 'Skill Group Expand' cells.

The great thing about the automatic calculation of group/skill bp/karma discounts WITH the Skill Group Expand option is that you can use the sheet to calculate the savings for you.

For example (using the Karma build system for simplicity).

At character creation you buy Athletics (Group) 2 for 20 karma.

Later you decide to raise your Gymnastics to 3 for 6 more karma.

Now according to RAW (as Dakka Pointed out), you need to LOSE the Group and break out all individual skills:

Add Climbing, Running and Swimming all to your sheet at rating 2. The Karma cost should be 0, and version N of the sheet will reflect that.

BUT, now according to RAW you need to REMOVE the Athletics (Group).

One option is to move the Athletics (Group) to the bottom of your skill list as a Note showing why you should have any discount, and allowing the sheet to know that you had the group so it will calculate costs appropriately.

The other option is this: Look at your total karma, then delete the Group. What is the difference?

It should be 12 karma lost:
-20 karma cost for removing the group
+8 karma cost for raise 4 individual skills to 2 = +32 karma
-20 + 32 = 12

But we dont need to know the exact math... just watch your karma before and after you remove the group and note it (12). Now go and add 12 to the 'Skill Group Expand Karma' cell (Main_Sheet!AD15).

OR

Add an entry in the Karma log:

Karma Award 12, Reason: Broke Athletics 2 into individual skills

My personal preference is to leave the group and only add the skills that are raised beyond the group for a nice succinct skill list, but if you would rather see the individual skills you will now have an easy way to do it.

[Tyro]

<awesomesauce>

Wonderful as always, DK!

[DamienKnight]

Verion N is now available.



Updated Damage and Reach calculation for Drake Forms. Changed default drake Breath Weapon to fire.
Added the possibility to Glitch when using the 'Efficient Dice Roller'.
Added prices to many items in Gear list, fixed several typos in Gear
Skill Groups now reduce the BP/Karma paid for individual skills from that group
Added 'Additional Echoes' section to Technomancer for Optional rule allowing Immersed Technomancers to purchase echoes for 15 karma each
Added Immersion Tasks for Technomancers
Fixed various spelling errors on the Background tab

[SpellBinder]

Just did some quick peeks and I must say I'm liking it, though I still had to make a few edits for the cyberware grades to work in Excel 2007 (same as before). Since I've got an older copy of Excel installed on another computer now I can actually try to see what can be done to resolve this for good.

Added: Actually found how to fix this DK, and left you a message with the details.

[Tyro]

Just did some quick peeks and I must say I'm liking it, though I still had to make a few edits for the cyberware grades to work in Excel 2007 (same as before). Since I've got an older copy of Excel installed on another computer now I can actually try to see what can be done to resolve this for good.

Added: Actually found how to fix this DK, and left you a message with the details.

DK's been getting a lot of love lately, and I just wanted to say I (and I'm sure the other users of the sheet) haven't forgotten the other people working on this. I (we) really appreciate the few people who have the skills to go into excel and figure out fixes who actually do so and help us all thereby. Noticing bugs when I'm building a character is easy; actually going in and fixing the code is something else entirely. Thanks!

[DamienKnight]

Just did some quick peeks and I must say I'm liking it, though I still had to make a few edits for the cyberware grades to work in Excel 2007 (same as before). Since I've got an older copy of Excel installed on another computer now I can actually try to see what can be done to resolve this for good.

Added: Actually found how to fix this DK, and left you a message with the details.

I did not realize that an excel workbook could have duplicate names via a Tab Instance vs the Workbook names. Crazy!

Deleted like 20 duplicated names. I re-uploaded the file under the same name and have updated all the links.

If anyone is using Excel 2007 and having errors on the Cyberware page, you may want to re-download version n.

Thanks for the help SpellBinder. I dont have excel 2007 to verify the fix works, so please post here if you find the new version is working properly.

http://www.filedropper.com/sr4cgdk1n_1

[SpellBinder]

Just did and I am having no issues with the cyberware grades now. I'd call this pesky issue resolved.

Now I just wish I had gotten off my backside with the older version of Excel to figure out how it worked differently from 2007. Only put it on my other computer last week to verify the backwards compatibility of a Warmachine roster sheet I've been working on.