Upgraded Character Generator, Updated Generator Based on work from Autarkis and Blakkie Options

[DamienKnight]

Add Sign Language to languages. It's the only one a drake could use in dracoform (only oriental, probably), which is why I found it was missing.

And great on the fixes.
6b: yeah, you'll have to do it yourself, I figured as much, but at least it's not throwing meaningless errors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
3b: Ah! There it is. I scoured all over for it and kept missing it.

Thought I had another thought. Guess not.

Adding Sign language. By the way, after your huge list of fixes (very helpful, thanks for that) I was inspired to change my signature (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It would be kinda cool to have another sheet in here somewhere that would list out common dice pools.

Thats not a bad idea Ehleric. I think it warrants a new sheet in the workbook. I am focusing on getting the xml output working, but if anyone would like to create it, it can be easily integrated. Just design the sheet how you like, then create a list of cells on the right with labels for the base contributing attrbutes (Perception Skill, Intelligence, Dodge skill, Reaction etc.), and let all your formulas point to those cells. When I import the sheet I will replace the numbers that you use for testing with name variables that point to the attributes in the sheet.

It is important to have a sheet only contain references to itself if I am going to import it, or else Excel will add on file paths to the original workbook which I will have to manually delete (pain in the butt).

If anyone has any ideas for new sheets, just whip em up and toss them into www.mediafire.com and PM me a link. If it seems to fit in the Generator nicely I will include it in the next release.

[Draco18s]

Actually, one of the best ways to do that would just be to grab the Active Skill list on the main page, copy it, figure out the attributes, list both numbers, then have a cell show the total.
If you wanted, you (DamienKnight as opposed to a generic reader) could pick out some of the skills you consider the important ones and have a space for them in such cases as the player doesn't remember to take those skills. What? Didn't take dodge? Well, here's what you roll anyway.

Hum...actually, there's an idea. List all the common ones regardless of character (perception, armor, dodge, etc.) then allow the user to tick individual skills that they have that they consider common (Hacking for the decker, spellcasting for the magician, etc.) and have that second sheet pull those instead of just everything.

And your welcome on the fixes. Given the complexity of the sheet, I'm not surprised that there are errors and you always need help finding them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dreadlord]

I am too lazy to go back through the list of errors to see if this has been reported yet, but I noticed on CharSheet cells P7 and T7 both refer to "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$U$33:$U$46,0 and it should be "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$V$33:$V$46,0

[Dreadlord]

(sigh) Or it could be I loaded the wrong version by mistake...

DOH! Nebbe mind!

[Dreadlord]

Ooooooookaaaaaayyyy...

It was an error on the old v6 and was continued onto the 7b sheet shifted over by one column.

CharSheet cells P7 and T7 both refer to "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$V$33:$V$46,0 and it should be "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$W$33:$W$46,0

[rob]

Using it right now. Noticed you can't add/house nanohives or magnetic systems in a cyberlimb.

Maybe this is a question for another post, but the modular cyberarm rules confuse me. Basically, is the plug 'meat to metal', or is the plug 'metal to metal'? That is, in order to get a modular cyberhand do you have to purchase the whole lower arm, and the lower arm is fixed but the hand can be taken off? or do you just put the hand on a stump?

Same for lower arms, one joint up.

[Ryu]

The default modular cyberlimbs are set to replace the full cyberpart. Detaching parts of a limb would require some houseruling regarding capacity limits IIRC.

So the RAW version is always a stump, metal-to-flesh unless we are talking full limb replacements on a character with cybertorso.

[Draco18s]

The way I understood modular cyberlimbs was like Cyborg in Teen Titans: it's metal to metal, but the metal on the limb is just enough to act as a connector: you don't have to reattach nerves every time.

[DamienKnight]

Metal to metal.

[Tyro]

I noticed when building characters that making a piece of 'ware Alpha increases its availability by 2. This makes sense to me, but I can't seem to find the relevant passage in the core book.

[Cabral]

I noticed when building characters that making a piece of 'ware Alpha increases its availability by 2. This makes sense to me, but I can't seem to find the relevant passage in the core book.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that makes alpha-deltaware harder to come by than basic ware is the restrictions on why kind of setup can install them. (p122 Augmentation)

[Draco18s]

Arsenal 165, there is no availability modifier on ANY cyberware except secondhand (-1).

[DamienKnight]

Correct, the increased availability of higher grade wares is not in the rule books.

According to the Core Book, "Alphaware is more Essence friendly than standard cyberware, but is more costly as well. Betaware and deltaware are even more Essencefriendly and expensive, but are also harder to acquire and are not available to starting characters."

It seems that in the interest of simplifying things, SR4 removes availability modifiers for Cyberware Grades in the Core Book, and simply said 'Starting Characters Cant Have Beta/Delta at start". This is an unnecessary and inadequate simplification, which is apparent in later books. When they added a new Grade in the Augmentation book, 'Secondhand', they decided to go against their simplification and add an availability modifier.

And then in the Runners Companion they added new qualities, one which raises the 12 availability starting limit to 16, and another that allows players to purchase one Item at availability of 20 or less. Since the Core book was assuming a 12 availability limit, it simply said Beta/Delta is a no-no... But if you pay for a quality that allows you to get hard-to-get items at start, why shouldnt you be able to apply this to Cyberware?

The simple answer is, you should not be able to because the Shadowrun rules dont specifically allow it. My group's answer and house rule is to facilitate it through using Availability modifiers on Otherwise unattainable goods.

The modified availability is not a mistake, but a house rule. I could add a switch as other house rules, but it is not in my interest to add switches for every Optional or every house rule, especially when they are not affecting the usability of the spreadsheet. If you do not like the modified availability of Different Grades of Essence, simply dont get Beta/Delta ware on your starting character, and ignore the modified availability of Alphaware.

[Tyro]

I appreciate the clarification. This makes much more sense to me than does the "core" ruleset, and works nicely with Augmentation. Thank you!

[Cabral]

The modified availability is not a mistake, but a house rule. I could add a switch as other house rules, but it is not in my interest to add switches for every Optional or every house rule, especially when they are not affecting the usability of the spreadsheet.

Actually, if your house rule makes cyber/bio that is normally available at chargen by RAW (ie, Alphaware Cyber Torso) appear unavailable, it is impacting the usability of the spreadsheet.

For those that don't want to use Damien's house rule, unhide Sheet1 and find the Grade table (named cell reference of Complete_Grade_Table)
You can reset the values to RAW (0,-1,-1,0,0,0) or something else more to your liking. (Maybe you liked old school costs and want to make alpha-delta cost x4, x8, x10.)

Are there any other house rules incorporated into the sheet?

[Bobson]

Actually, if your house rule makes cyber/bio that is normally available at chargen by RAW (ie, Alphaware Cyber Torso) appear unavailable, it is impacting the usability of the spreadsheet.

For those that don't want to use Damien's house rule, unhide Sheet1 and find the Grade table (named cell reference of Complete_Grade_Table)
You can reset the values to RAW (0,-1,-1,0,0,0) or something else more to your liking. (Maybe you liked old school costs and want to make alpha-delta cost x4, x8, x10.)

Are there any other house rules incorporated into the sheet?

It'd be hugely complicated, but it might be nice to just have a "House Rules" sheet, where things like maximum BP worth of positive and negative qualities, starting BP, Availability of 'ware grades, etc. are all listed and editable.

[Tyro]

I don't know if this has been noted already, but the sheet doesn't know how to calculate the average of limb attributes when you have a partial cyberlimb.

Also, I noticed that when I got muscle toner 2, Agility went up by 1... 3, by 2... 4, by 3.

Often when I enter something into active skills (and a few other places) it puts spaces (usually 2, sometimes more) before the entry. This does not appear to be related to whether or not the entry in question is a specialization.

I think most or all of my other complaints have been handled above.

[edit]: The Availability of the Obvious cyberskull should be 16, not 6; the Obvious cyberskull with casemod should be 20, not 10. Pages 336 core (basic availability) and 165 Augmentation (casemod availability modifier).

[DamienKnight]

Actually, if your house rule makes cyber/bio that is normally available at chargen by RAW (ie, Alphaware Cyber Torso) appear unavailable, it is impacting the usability of the spreadsheet.

Yes, if the availability of your Alphaware is raised by two, and the cell turns yellow, requiring you to mentally subtract 2 to determine weither it is actually available in RAW... I can see how that would make the sheet unusable. I mean, a cell... in yellow. Mentally subtracting 2 from 13 or 14... jeez, I am so sorry for causing this huge problem.

Ok, I done being sarcastic. Added 'Wares Availability House Rule' to the option rules list. Click it to turn it off and use the broken RAW rules. Yay for Used Alphaware! Who will ever want to get Standard grade again, since used alphaware is easier to get, same price, and lower essence. In fact, I am just going to remove standard grade from the sheet, because why would anyone ever want to use it under the super-awesome RAW wares availability rules?

Alright, I guess I wasn't done being sarcastic. Sorry. Look for the new Wares switch in Beta 8.

It'd be hugely complicated, but it might be nice to just have a "House Rules" sheet, where things like maximum BP worth of positive and negative qualities, starting BP, Availability of 'ware grades, etc. are all listed and editable.

Its not hugely complicated. There is already a section for house-rules and optional rules on the main sheet, it would simply require moving this section to its own sheet and adding a couple of variables to it.

The question is, is there a need for it? Currently I very much like having the switches on the Main sheet. Its nice and easy to update. Adding a sheet for changing the BP is insufficient reason. Cell AB12 is unprotected. Simply change the value there. If you have a houserule that allows a different Quality limit, simply Ignore the Conditional Highlighting on Qualities. If there becomes a list of house rules/variables that is long enough, I will examine the possibility of moving them to a separate sheet.

I appreciate the clarification. This makes much more sense to me than does the "core" ruleset, and works nicely with Augmentation. Thank you!

You are sane like me, and I appreciate that.


Every man is wise when attacked by a mad dog; fewer when pursued by a mad woman; only the wisest survive when attacked by a mad notion.
- Robertson Davies

[DamienKnight]

I don't know if this has been noted already, but the sheet doesn't know how to calculate the average of limb attributes when you have a partial cyberlimb.

Correct, the sheet does not distinguish between partial and full limbs. It also does not facilitate modular limbs, nor does it increase your hit boxes for each full limb. These problems are remedied in version 8.

Also, I noticed that when I got muscle toner 2, Agility went up by 1... 3, by 2... 4, by 3.

I would have to know your race, BP put into agility, and number of cyberlimbs and associated agility augmentations if I were to identify the problem. What I see is this: Muscle Toner raises agility by its rating. If I get enough cyberlimbs (which have base agility 3) they can pull down the average agility, which could cause you to see a lower return on Muscle Toner.

Think like this: If you have two cyber legs and two cyber arms, the only place muscle toner would help would be your torso and head, so 3 points of agility bonus in the torso and head would not add 3 to your overall agility.

There was a problem with the averaging in Beta 7, in that it was Rounding the average, when it needs to be Flooring it. Fixed in Beta 8.

Often when I enter something into active skills (and a few other places) it puts spaces (usually 2, sometimes more) before the entry. This does not appear to be related to whether or not the entry in question is a specialization.

Oh, if only I could figure out how to add spaces in front of specializations. I tried very hard in the Custom Formatting setting to come up with a way for this, but alas I could not. There should be two spaces in front of any Active skill that could potentially be part of a skill group. If you could list any active skills that have more than 2 spaces, I will promptly fix them.

I find that the spaces makes it alot easier to identify the Group relationships. If your remove them, formulas that check for a certain skill (like max # of spells) will fail, so dont do it.

I think most or all of my other complaints have been handled above.

Were you to fully subscribe to the philosophies of your signature (which are very clever btw), you might instead say "Besides the issues noted above, it seems our hard work has really paid off, as the bugs I have previously reported are resolved."

The Availability of the Obvious cyberskull should be 16, not 6; the Obvious cyberskull with casemod should be 20, not 10. Pages 336 core (basic availability) and 165 Augmentation (casemod availability modifier).

As you have aptly noted, I have duly complied. Corrected in Beta 8.

[Bobson]

Its not hugely complicated. There is already a section for house-rules and optional rules on the main sheet, it would simply require moving this section to its own sheet and adding a couple of variables to it.

The question is, is there a need for it? Currently I very much like having the switches on the Main sheet. Its nice and easy to update. Adding a sheet for changing the BP is insufficient reason. Cell AB12 is unprotected. Simply change the value there. If you have a houserule that allows a different Quality limit, simply Ignore the Conditional Highlighting on Qualities. If there becomes a list of house rules/variables that is long enough, I will examine the possibility of moving them to a separate sheet.

Well, I started off thinking of it as a whole page with large amounts of house rule specification, but then I got bogged down and ran out of ideas. Mentally, it's the difference between having a checkbox to specify "Use custom 'ware availability" and having four fields to specify what those four custom numbers are. I do admit to choosing poor examples. :/

[Draco18s]

We have AIs added in yet? I went to start on this one idea and noticed that AI wasn't selectable.

I'm sure it'd take a lot of rewriting, sadly (no physical attributes, etc). :-\

[Cabral]

Yes, if the availability of your Alphaware is raised by two, and the cell turns yellow, requiring you to mentally subtract 2 to determine weither it is actually available in RAW... I can see how that would make the sheet unusable. I mean, a cell... in yellow. Mentally subtracting 2 from 13 or 14... jeez, I am so sorry for causing this huge problem.

I said impact (particularly for those who don't memorize availability), not render useless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
I actually prefer going over to Sheet1 and monkeying with the costs myself ... easily done with or without your switch

Oh, if only I could figure out how to add spaces in front of specializations. I tried very hard in the Custom Formatting setting to come up with a way for this, but alas I could not. There should be two spaces in front of any Active skill that could potentially be part of a skill group. If you could list any active skills that have more than 2 spaces, I will promptly fix them.

(" "&Cell reference) doesn't work? It should. Is Excel auto-trimming the leading spaces? It works in OpenOffice (but I still can't get the char(10) to work.

[Bobson]

We have AIs added in yet? I went to start on this one idea and noticed that AI wasn't selectable.

I'm sure it'd take a lot of rewriting, sadly (no physical attributes, etc). :-\

Nope, not yet. I actually played with an AI sheet just a few days ago. All you really need to do is manually set the physical attributes to 0 in the X/Y section (which requires unprotecting the sheet), then kill any errors that causes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Set Edge maximum to the average of the four mental stats, then set your total BP to 290, and otherwise treat the character as human (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[DamienKnight]

Nope, not yet. I actually played with an AI sheet just a few days ago. All you really need to do is manually set the physical attributes to 0 in the X/Y section (which requires unprotecting the sheet), then kill any errors that causes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Set Edge maximum to the average of the four mental stats, then set your total BP to 290, and otherwise treat the character as human (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

That sounds very easy. If that is all we need, I can setup the cells to respond accordingly if AI is selected for race. Isn't there more to it though... like selecting from a different skill list? By the way, I realized that List Validations can utilize very complex functions, which inspired me to redesign part of the cyberparts page. Cant wait for everyone to see it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

Well, they do have 2 special attributes: Firewall and...shoot, one of those other comlink ones (the other two are the same as the node they're in).

There are a few funky things but I'm not sure how they work (programs and whatnot).