[X] My Assistant

[Ehleric]

Read the rules on this. Lord Torgo pointed out to me that only Surge characters have access to all metagenic qualities. The only Metagenic qualities that Metavarients have access to is the ones that are specific to their race, which are not optional. Those will be listed on your Charsheet, without you having to pick them.

Hmm.. I'm going to have to read over those rules again I guess... I'll actually have to SURGE my minotaur to get him his mood hair then... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I do like what you did to the Cyberparts sheet, makes it nice and clean if you've only got a few bits of 'ware. Unfortunately I didn't get a whole lot of time to play with it last night to check out all the reorganization in depth. I just tried to transfer my one guy over to the new sheet and that is what stuck out when I got into work this morning to throw a quick post up here. I'll post more when I get the chance to look at it better.

[Narse]

Yeah, there is some very strange behavior of the cyberparts acessories listings when adding or removing other cyberparts. I got the eyes, ears and skull to display the limb lists (the limbs always display the limb lists) at various times by adding other cyberparts, for some of them, they then switched back to the intended list, when yet another part was added or removed. Very unpredictable.

Anyhow, I think that the new cyberparts design is certainly cleaner that the other versions of the sheet I have (v8 is the first I have tried of the ones you've released) but in some ways I think I like the other layout with everything always visible more. Certainly it is mainly a cosmetic issue but I suppose I just like to be visually reminded of all my options.

Could you explain the new functionality of the qualities drop down, I didn't notice any difference.

I also noticed that there are quite a few entries throughout the sheet that are missing the tag for the book they are from, e.g. "(sm)", but this is a really minor nitpick, as I know where they are in the books I have, and if I don't know what they are they are obviously not from a book I have (e.g. all the qualities from runners companion). And really, the fact that they work right is way more important.

Just noticed that I left out the nanohive from my previous list of possible cyberpart accessories that seemed to be missing.


Well I haven't had time to try them out yet, but I'm really looking forward to using the custom weapons, vehicles, hacking, and new (for me) gear sheets.

[edit]: all this is under OO in case it matters.

[Tyro]

I noticed that Black Market Pipeline: Vehicles still fails to give a 10% discount on vehicles purchased at character creation. The following modifications should be available to melee weapons; all page numbers refer to Arsenal:

Ceramic/Plasteel Components (150)
Chameleon Skin (150)
Custom Look (150)
Easy Breakdown (Judgment call; 150)
Exchangable Weapon Modification (For underbarrel weapons; 150)
Gecko Grip(152)
Metahuman Customization (152)
Personalized Grip (152)
Pilot Upgrade (152)
Powered Slide Mount (For underbarrel weapons; 152)
Propulsion System (So you can call your axe to your hand; 152-53)
Reduced Weight (153)
Skinlink (For communicating with underbarrel weapons, flashlights etc.; 153)
Tracker (153)
Underbarrel Weapon (Gunblades!; 153)
Voice Activation/Response (153)

Gecko grip is very nice if you don't want to be disarmed, chameleon skin is required if you want the full benefit of a chameleon suit, and personalized grip specifically gives a dice pool bonus by RAW. And so on.

Also:

<snip>
Just noticed that I left out the nanohive from my previous list of possible cyberpart accessories that seemed to be missing.
<snip>

I've already mentioned the missing nanohive cyberpart on at least one occasion.

<snip>
[edit]: all this is under OO in case it matters.

OO?

[Werewindlefr]

Any idea on how to implement cyber suites? Maybe by just having a box to tick which would set a piece of cyberware as part of a suite (multiplying its essence cost and cost by .9?)

And thanks for the replies about the hidden sheets. It was really helpful (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

OO?

Open Office.

[Jimson]

I would like to commend your work DamienKnight! This has been a great tool for me. It has allowed me to create many characters at my work. I do not have much time at home to prepare for Shadowrun, so having an excel character generator is perfect! Thank you.

[Tyro]

Could you give an option for free Knowledge skills as per the BP system rules?

Also, does anyone know why this wasn't included in the Karma system in the first place? RAW just encourage less well-developed characters, and someone with no knowledge skills just doesn't make logical sense. I've taken to buying many of my knowledge skills as knowsofts to save Karma at character creation.

[Xerxos]

Read the rules on this. Lord Torgo pointed out to me that only Surge characters have access to all metagenic qualities. The only Metagenic qualities that Metavarients have access to is the ones that are specific to their race, which are not optional. Those will be listed on your Charsheet, without you having to pick them.

I don't think so.

Metagenetic qualities are special Positive and Negative
qualities that can only be taken by characters with the appropriate
genetic background. Only characters that have bought a metavariant
metatype (pp. 70-72) or the changeling quality (p. 73) may
choose qualities from this section.

(emphasis mine)

[Ehleric]

Yeah, that is what I thought as well Xerxos based on that paragraph. Last night I read over the section again and there is a place before that where it states that only SURGE characters pick from them, metavarients just get the innate ones due to their variations. I don't have my book here so I can't quote the page number though.

[DamienKnight]

The Metagenetic qualities presented later in this chapter are
only available to characters who have first taken the Changeling
quality (see Creating a Changeling Character, p. 73) and as innate
abilities to various metavariants.

I believe this is the statement that has led many to believe Metavarients cannot select any old Metagenetic qualities. I can see why there is confusion, because the quote from p.110 suggests that Metavarients can 'Choose' qualities.

Its possible that when the book says 'Innate' on p. 96, what it is saying is that while Surge characters can have qualities that manifest after character creation (Dormant Surge), Metavarients must choose their qualities at character creation. Its a weak argument though... and merits an explanation from an official source.

Bottom line though, this thread does not exist to discuss or debate rules, but to discuss what the sheet should have. With that in mind, I am going to add a control option for 'Metavarients may Choose Metagenetic Qualities', which can be flipped on if you desire to use this house rule.

If you want to discuss this rule further, I have started this thread in the Shadowrun Discussion Forum.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=24680

[barrelv]

Yeah, there is some very strange behavior of the cyberparts acessories listings when adding or removing other cyberparts. I got the eyes, ears and skull to display the limb lists (the limbs always display the limb lists) at various times by adding other cyberparts, for some of them, they then switched back to the intended list, when yet another part was added or removed. Very unpredictable.

It looks like the logic for the dropdown 2 - 8 isn't the same as the logic for the 1st dropdown. I copy-and-pasted the 1st dropdown over the other 7 and it seems to work correctly now.

[Tyro]

[Edit]: Double post.

[Tyro]

When I purchase foci in the Magic tab, it doesn't look up the Availability and price, and if I bind one with Karma it doesn't deduct the Karma on the main page.

[Mäx]

Nice sheet, but i have few request
-Main page doesn't have enought room for active skills, i have lots of specialities so i ran out of space.
-Fiberoptic hair seems to be missing from ware list
-Custom weapons stab is nice, but it should have at least four times as many places for weapons and would it be possible to include a option to have multiple similar custom weapons( a cell where you input how many of the weapons in quesion the character has)

[DamienKnight]

Thanks to the excellent support of the community, Version 8c is now available.

Fixed some problems with Foci
Added, Removed and Adjusted some Cyberpart Accessories
Adjusted Qualities_Data so the drop down on the Main_Sheet will not have white space trailing the qualities list
Added Control for Metavarients Surge House Rule. When enabled, Metavarients can select Metagenetic qualities without having the Surge quality.
A few other minor tweaks.

[Tyro]

Added Control for Metavarients Surge House Rule. When enabled, Metavarients can select Metagenetic qualities without having the Surge quality.

Could you just make a checkbox to make those Qualities available to everyone? Some Qualities, such as Neoteny, could be plausibly had by non-changelings.

[DamienKnight]

Could you just make a checkbox to make those Qualities available to everyone? Some Qualities, such as Neoteny, could be plausibly had by non-changelings.

No, but feel free to manually enter any qualities you want. Also, you can modify qualities on the Qualities_Data sheet. Simply change the 'Standard' Column from 'N' to 'Y'. Once they have 'Y' in the Standard column, they will be available in the list regardless of Infection or Changeling status.

Main page doesn't have enought room for active skills, i have lots of specialities so i ran out of space.

Good point. Here is experiemental version 8d. Everyone who is so inclinded, please check it out and let me know if you like the revised Main_Sheet

I have added a Freeze pane, and added alot more spots for knowledge and active skills. Also, I changed the solid borders to dotted lines inside lists. Havent tested it much, so parts may not work, but I am mostly posting this to see if everyone likes the new style before I proceed with it. If you like the classic page better, please give me your opinion.

[Brazila]

Damien you ARE the spreadsheet master. Don't let these guys get you down, this character sheet is the best community made project I have ever seen, you clean it up a bit and it's gonna be good enough for someone to buy it off you man. I am working on some of the gear things we talked about and an email is headed your way soon. Let me know whatever I can do to pitch in with my limited knowledge. I can't wait for you got get the basics done so we can start mad tweaking things. Oh and there is always a seat at the UGT for you bro!!!!

[Deus Innomen]

Oh yeah, I definitely like the Freeze pane idea, it's fantastic to be able to see the base stats and remaining BPs and whatnot without scrolling up and down. Spot on.

[Mäx]

I just don't know partly i agree with Deus Innomen about the freeze pane, but IMHO it just makes the main page look little funky.
But i definedly like the extra space for skills.
Oh and what do you mean with no specializions for langueges. as the page 129 of the BBB has this under the language skill

Specializations: Read/Write, Speak, By dialect, By lingo

Why does the cyberlimb customization cost capacity, it shouldn't.
Where are all the geneware hiding.
Some cyberskull accessories should be availebul withouta cyberskull too, like horns and fibreoptic hair.

This post has been edited by Mäx: Dec 20 2008, 11:38 PM

[Tyro]

Damien you ARE the spreadsheet master. Don't let these guys get you down, this character sheet is the best community made project I have ever seen, you clean it up a bit and it's gonna be good enough for someone to buy it off you man. <SNIP>

For the record, I agree. I know I've posted a lot of issues I've found with the sheet, and I'd just like to say I do so in order to help the sheet. I love this generator, and look forward to each new incarnation with great anticipation. It's all I use anymore.

[Edit]: I like the new style.

[Bobson]

Lots of changes since I last downloaded a copy. Keep them coming!


Feedback:

Freeze pane: Useful, but feels a bit weird if your window is small enough that you have more lines frozen than moving. Not much you can do about that, though, and I think the utility is high enough to be worth keeping.

Cyberware_bioware tab: I miss seeing the stat columns, but I can always unhide them. The "Notes" field is populating with the price currently.

Cyberparts: Takes some getting used to, but I think I can learn to like it. The behavior when you add a new cyberpart higher up is weird, but again, there's not going to be anything you can do about it, and it's easy enough to fix (yay copy/paste (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) Also? I'm not sure you should be able to put breast/penile implants on cyber arms/legs.... On the other hand, I kindof expect that someone, somewhere has a use for that, which kindof scares me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Once you get to it, you might want to consider applying something like what you did with Cyberparts to the Armor section of the gear sheet, since you can easily load armor up with a lot more than three mods...

Keep it up!

[DamienKnight]

Lots of changes since I last downloaded a copy. Keep them coming!


Feedback:

Freeze pane: Useful, but feels a bit weird if your window is small enough that you have more lines frozen than moving. Not much you can do about that, though, and I think the utility is high enough to be worth keeping.

Cyberware_bioware tab: I miss seeing the stat columns, but I can always unhide them. The "Notes" field is populating with the price currently.

Cyberparts: Takes some getting used to, but I think I can learn to like it. The behavior when you add a new cyberpart higher up is weird, but again, there's not going to be anything you can do about it, and it's easy enough to fix (yay copy/paste (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) Also? I'm not sure you should be able to put breast/penile implants on cyber arms/legs.... On the other hand, I kindof expect that someone, somewhere has a use for that, which kindof scares me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Once you get to it, you might want to consider applying something like what you did with Cyberparts to the Armor section of the gear sheet, since you can easily load armor up with a lot more than three mods...

Keep it up!

Freeze pane: Thats a good point. I work on a laptop with a very high res. I think I should put a note on the front page (where the frozen pane is the largest) with a comment that explains how to remove a freeze pane.

Cyber/bio tab: I didnt realize people were using the stat mod table on the right. I will show it again... it doesn't really harm the appearance at all, I was just experimenting. Oh, and Notes will be fixed in my next incremental release prior to 9.

Cyberparts: I am considering writing a vbscript to move data when you add parts and displace like that. For people who want to see every part regardless of whither it is cyber or not, I could put placeholders in the selectable cyberlimbs list... something like 'Natural Arm'. That would allow you to fill up all limbs prior to entering any accessories. Personally, If I have a character with just a cyberskull, I dont want to have to scroll down the page looking for it, which is why I enabled the new functionality.

I added a comment to the armor area that should explain how to add more mods to a single piece of armor. You can have more than a dozen mods on a single piece of armor, you just have to put them on the next lines, and select '(mods)' as the armor for that line. I did it like this mostly because of the way I am displaying armor and mods on the Charsheet, and partly because it takes alot less room and makes sense to me.

[DamienKnight]

I just don't know partly i agree with Deus Innomen about the freeze pane, but IMHO it just makes the main page look little funky.
But i definedly like the extra space for skills.
Oh and what do you mean with no specializions for langueges. as the page 129 of the BBB has this under the language skill



Why does the cyberlimb customization cost capacity, it shouldn't.
Where are all the geneware hiding.
Some cyberskull accessories should be availebul withouta cyberskull too, like horns and fibreoptic hair.

Good points all around Max! Keep your eyes open for the next version, I will do my best to address these issues.

[bernardo]

I've been using your spreadsheet for a while and have to say that you are doing an excellent job with it.

Just downloaded the latest version and I may have found a bug in it. When you select a knowledge skill specialization the sheet discounts one point from the knowledge skill points (which is correct) AND discounts two BP from the total (like if it was also discounting the value from a normal skill specialization). I'm not sure if it is a real bug or if it's just my Open Office that misunderstood some xls calculation.

Another issue with Open Office are the selection boxes of the house rules that are dislocated several cells to the right, but that I can fix myself.

Keep up with the good work!

[Mr_lynch]

i've ben playing with the chargen and its great. thanks for making it and making it user friendly.

i need a bit of clarification

when im putting in stats its giving me a point less than i'd expected(i maybe doing it wrong)

e.g i was making a dwarf
the base stats read

2/7 bod
1/6 agi
1/5 rea
3/8 str
1/6 chr
1/6 int
1/6 log
2/7 wil

it has always been an asumption of mine that the first stat point is free as you can't start with a 0 stat. For metatype chars you pay for the points associated with the race. the dwarf being 25bp

therefore every point i add should put the attribute up from the base score.

but if i put 2 in the boxes for the stats it reads
3/ 7
2/ 6
2/ 5
4/ 8
2/ 6
2/ 6
2/ 6
3/ 7

to me this means i'm paying for something i should be getting for free

'Purchase Attributes
As mentioned in Game Concepts, normal attributes range
between 1 and 6. A character’s metatype may adjust the maximums
higher or lower. Augmentation (either through technology
or magic) can allow a character to exceed their metatype
maximum to a certain point.
All characters start with the minimum attributes as noted for
their metatype on the Metatype Attribute Table. Characters also
start with a value of 6 in Essence, 1 in Edge (2 for humans), and a
value of 0 in Magic and Resonance. Initiative is a derived value and
is not calculated until after attribute values have been finalized.'

can someone explain to me why i'm wrong, if indeed i am.

thanks