Help with character creation, very new to the rules! Options

[Banatine]

Hello everyone,

One of my friends is starting a shadowrun game soon, so i'm making am character, but not sure how best to do it.

very basically, i wanted to be a little like Gray Fox from the MGS games.

This is what i've created so far:

Stats: 200 BP

Body: 4
Agi: 4 (6)
Reaction: 4 (5)
Strength: 3 (5)
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 3
Willpower: 3
Edge: 4
Initiative: 8
Initiative Passes: 2

Skills: 126BP

Stealth group 3
Athletics group 4
unarmed combat (parrying) 5 (+2)
pistol (Semi-automatic) 1 (+2)
land craft (wheeled) 1 (+2)
Blades (swords) 5 (+2)

Qualities: 0 BP

Ambidextrous 5
Guts 5
Spirit Bane (man) -10

gear: 48 BP

[ Spoiler ]

Suzuki Mirage
Gecko tape Gloves
Fairlight Caliban (w/ Novatech Navi OS, analyse 4 and search 4 programs)
Yahaha Sakura Fubuki (w/ silencer and arm slide, and 10 regular ammo clips)
Snap Blades
Monofilament Sword
Chameleon suit (w/ Thermal damping 4, nonconductive 4, insulation 4, fire resistant 4, chem protection 4)
Helmet (w/ trode net, audio enhancer 3, sound filter 3, ultrasound, vision enhancement 3, image link)
Medkit 6
GPS
Gas Mask
Autopicker 4
Card copier 4
Lockpick set
maglock passkey 4
Maglock sequencer 4
wire clippers
mini welder
fake SIN 4
AR gloves
Sattellite link
Trodes
5 flask-paks
5 smoke grenades
area Jammer 4
white noise generator 4
Grapple gun (w/ 200m stealth rope, catalyst stick)
Muscle Augmentation 2
Muscle toner 2
Synthacardium 3
Orthoskin 1
Synaptic Booster 1

I have 26 points left over for contacts i'f i'm right, which i want to keep, but having only had the rulebook for 3 days, i would appreciate any help i can get in making this better. (I'm sure i have things i don't need or vice versa)

Thanks in advance! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Ryu]

Pretty good - I´ve seen worse from experienced players. Welcome on DS! Mind you that some advice will be VERY efficiency-minded, and that doing differently is in no way automatically wrong.

That is how you hide text (remove the points from within the brackets):
[.spoiler]Text goes here[./spoiler]


- The pistols skill has a semi-automatic specialisation. Take that one, and you can use heavy pistols, too.
- For close combat purposes, strength should be uneven (5 in this case).
- Qualities: I´d buy another attribute point instead of toughness
- Adept powers: I would take less powers at a higher rating.
- You can build a very similar character based on Bioware - which would be easier to improve after character generation

[Banatine]

Pretty good - I´ve seen worse from experienced players. Welcome on DS! Mind you that some advice will be VERY efficiency-minded, and that doing differently is in no way automatically wrong.

That is how you hide text (remove the points from within the brackets):
[.spoiler]Text goes here[./spoiler]


- The pistols skill has a semi-automatic specialisation. Take that one, and you can use heavy pistols, too.
- For close combat purposes, strength should be uneven (5 in this case).
- Qualities: I´d buy another attribute point instead of toughness
- Adept powers: I would take less powers at a higher rating.
- You can build a very similar character based on Bioware - which would be easier to improve after character generation

I've added the equipment list now, it's not very organised though.

• changed the pistol specialisation
• I thought about strength, but i want to be more about superhuman agility and reflexes than strength, not that it isn't important
• Qualities: removes toughness for a point of Reaction, so they are all 4 naturally.
• Adept powers: i'll think about that
• About bioware, i have decided against using bioware until i understand what impact it has on my magic score. I know the rules say about when you lose essense you lose magic as well, and i don't want to lose much of it at all, so i was thinking of just waiting until during the game to find deltaware stuff. i've got my eye on the suprathyroid gland and sleep regulator though.

[Nigel]

Bioware/cyberware are things I always avoid until I have 7-8 PP as an adept. I don't know anything about Gray Fox, but it seems a viable character. One note, though: unless your GM is going to let you gloss over that, you should probably buy fake licenses for your gun, sword, etc. If you get stopped, that's another reason for the cops to bring you in.

[Ryu]

My point was that one can build such a character with bioware instead of adept powers. Better muscle / some orthoskin / Synaptic Booster / Synthacardium. Just mentioning the option.

You can mix things up when you´ve got a bit of experience under your belt.

[Tarantula]

You can only spend half your starting BP on attributes. You've spend 250 when the max should be 200.

Edit: Nevermind, just realized you left the costs for edge/magic in that total there too. Those don't get hit under the same cap, so you're good.

[Banatine]

Ok, i've changed things so that i'm just using my adept skills as Improved Reflexes 3. If i'm understanding initiative passes correctly, that means i get 4 turns in everyone elses 1.

that would allow me to use my first turn for full defense, then the other 3 turns to slice everyone to peices. to me, that sounds pretty awesome, and then i don't need to spend unbeleivable amounts of money of synaptic enhancers.

[Ryu]

There are two reasons that speak against that:
1) Going 4 times is certainly very nice, but it will be your only good trick. If you want to walk that route, start with Imp. Reflexes 2 and some other powers, then initiate and increase magic to upgrade the power.

2) You are investing all of your magic into the one thing that both mundanes and spellcasters can get without problem, and then several things on top. When I suggested to consolidate your magic powers, I was aiming at (for example) combat sense 2, imp. reflexes 2, mystic armor 2.

[Ol' Scratch]

It's cheezy, but "Wheeled" is a specialization for Pilot Ground Craft. That makes you equally good behind the wheels of a car or a bike. No sense not to take it, however, as it costs exactly the same as Bike but covers a lot more.

I also have to concur on the Reflexes suggestion from Ryu. Having 4 passes is nice, but 3 is more than sufficient in almost every scenario you'll find yourself in. Considering the savings and what you can do with those points, it's a no-brainer to go with Improved Reflexes 2 and two points of other powers. Not only will you be more well-rounded, but you'll be able to do a lot more in those 3 passes than you would have in the 4 you originally had.

[Muspellsheimr]

Improved Reflexes 2 should be enough.

@Nigel, it's actually usually more efficient to spend a point of Essence or two during character generation, if you ever intend to.

On that point, I suggest picking up some bio & cyber. Muscle Toner 2 is a very good option. Also pick up Muscle Augmentation 2, & drop your natural Strength to 3. The 10 saved Build Points from Strength will be enough to pay for the bio & then some, & your Strength is now 5, Agility 6.

You now have 4 Magic, with 1 remaining Power Point. I would suggest either two ranks of Combat Sense, or using another point of Essence for further augmentation; you might be interested in the Reaction Enhancers cyberware - because your total bio Essence cost is greater than your cyber would be, you get them at a 50% Essence discount.

You loose one point of Magic, but you can now upgrade during gameplay without loosing more Magic.
In case you do not have Augmentation, here is how upgrading implants works:

Replacing/Upgrading
Cyberware and Bioware
Most augmentations, whether bioware, cyberware, genetech,
or nanocybernetics, have an associated Essence Cost. When
a character has an implant removed to be replaced or upgraded,
this leaves what is known as an “Essence hole�—a disparity between
the total Essence Cost of her implants (see Cyberware and
Bioware, p. 84, SR4) and her current Essence. This Essence hole
never “heals� naturally. It may, however, be used as a “credit� for
any new implants of the same type (cyber- or bioware)—simply
deduct the Essence hole from the new implant’s Essence cost before
applying it to your total. In other words, if you remove one
cyberware item that had an Essence Cost of 1, you may install
up to Essence Cost 1 of new cyberware without lowering your
Essence total. Any cost over 1 would be deducted as normal. Note
that a bioware implant would not be able to fill that same hole,
however—cyberware only.
Essence holes are important when replacing or upgrading
implants. If a character replaces an implant with one of a higher
grade, the new implant may well have a lower Essence Cost than
the old one and the character will develop an Essence hole that
she can fill with further augmentations. Likewise, upgrading an
implant often increases its Essence Cost—characters might choose
to remove another implant to create an Essence hole so she can
upgrade her implant without losing more Essence.
Note that Essence lost from other sources—addiction, a blood
spirit’s Energy Drain power, etc.—does not leave an Essence hole
that may be filled up with implants. That Essence is lost for good.

Basically, this means that during gameplay, you can pick up a Rating 4 Muscle Toner (Delta) to replace your Rating 2 (Basic) with no additional Essence Loss, or you can pick up a Rating 2 (Delta) replacement, and while you do not regain lost Essence, you have 0.2 that you can use for other bio upgrades without further loss.


EDIT: I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Gymnastics Dodge - put simply, if using a Full Defense action, you may use your Gymnastics skill in place of your Dodge skill. Because you have 4 Gymnastics (Athletics) already, 5 Dodge is basically a waste of 20 points.

[Banatine]

ok then, one thing that i really need clarified now, is how essence-mana loss works.

do you only lose whole points of magic when you lose whole points of essence, or do you lose fractions? e.g if i bought a petratuitary gland (0.7 essence), would my magic drop by 0.7? would it not drop at all because i havent reached a full point of essence lost, or would i lose a full point to rounding up?

[Muspellsheimr]

For every point of Essence (or partial point) you loose, you also reduce your Magic/Resonance attribute by 1. If Magic/Resonance ever reduces 0, you burn out (become permanently mundane).

What this means is, if your Essence is less than 6, but equal to or greater than 5, you reduce your Magic by one. If your Essence is less than 5, but equal to or greater than 4, you reduce your Magic by an additional one (for a total of -2), & so on.

Essence loss reduces both your current & maximum Magic rating, so an Essence loss of 1.5 results in -2 Magic & -2 Magic Maximum. By Initiating, you may increase your maximum Magic (this does not affect current Magic). So, in the above example, if you are a Grade 2 Initiate, you have -2 Magic, but your maximum remains at 6 (6-2+2).

Magic may be raised through Karma, up to your maximum, separately from Initiation.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Here's something to dwell on with more than a few points left over if you drop your Improved Reflexes down a level. You might not have read the magic book "Street Magic" yet, but there is an adept power in there that is worth every bit of the one adept point you use to buy it. Read here:

Nerve Strike: page 178-179
"This power allows an adept to inflict a paralyzing attack,
temporarily crippling an opponent, by targeting vital nerve
clusters. The adept declares he is using the power and makes
a normal unarmed melee attack. Instead of inflicting damage,
each net hit reduces his opponent’s Agility or Reaction
(attacker’s choice) by 1. Lost Agility and Reaction returns at
a rate of 1 point per minute of rest. If a character’s Agility or
Reaction is reduced to 0, he is paralyzed and unable to move.
Nerve Strike is most effective against metahuman opponents;
when used against critters, reduce Agility or Reaction by 1
for every 2 net hits instead. Targets that lack a functional
nervous system such as spirits, drones, and zombies are immune
to this power."

Since there is no damage done, there is no damage resistance test, and renders an opponent's armor pretty much null and void. Your net hits directly reduce their abilities to either attack you or defend against you depending on which attribute you try to reduce. This also means that you don't need any kind of high strength because you don't really do any damage to them. Of course, to make use of this awesome ability, you need to buy some skill ratings in Unarmed Combat. But, as it was pointed out, with Gymnastics, you could always go on gymnastics dodge during full defense, and if you are in a melee situation, you can always rely on your unarmed combat to block instead of just getting out of the way. This is the way I go (since I love playing martial artists!).

[Glyph]

Muspellsheimr is mostly spot on, but he missed that you have the Sensitive System negative quality. So reaction enhancers and other cyberware are double cost. So reaction enhancers are not a good combo with muscle toner and muscle augmentation, because it will take you over 1 Essense point's worth of augmentations, making you lose two points of Magic.

[Banatine]

Improved Reflexes 2 should be enough.

@Nigel, it's actually usually more efficient to spend a point of Essence or two during character generation, if you ever intend to.

On that point, I suggest picking up some bio & cyber. Muscle Toner 2 is a very good option. Also pick up Muscle Augmentation 2, & drop your natural Strength to 3. The 10 saved Build Points from Strength will be enough to pay for the bio & then some, & your Strength is now 5, Agility 6.

You now have 4 Magic, with 1 remaining Power Point. I would suggest either two ranks of Combat Sense, or using another point of Essence for further augmentation; you might be interested in the Reaction Enhancers cyberware - because your total bio Essence cost is greater than your cyber would be, you get them at a 50% Essence discount.

You loose one point of Magic, but you can now upgrade during gameplay without loosing more Magic.
In case you do not have Augmentation, here is how upgrading implants works:


Basically, this means that during gameplay, you can pick up a Rating 4 Muscle Toner (Delta) to replace your Rating 2 (Basic) with no additional Essence Loss, or you can pick up a Rating 2 (Delta) replacement, and while you do not regain lost Essence, you have 0.2 that you can use for other bio upgrades without further loss.


EDIT: I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Gymnastics Dodge - put simply, if using a Full Defense action, you may use your Gymnastics skill in place of your Dodge skill. Because you have 4 Gymnastics (Athletics) already, 5 Dodge is basically a waste of 20 points.

Thanks for the essence explanation, now i understand that losing a little bit of magic is'nt so bad for what i can get in return.

Also, i had noticed gymnastic dodge, but it says that you only use your gymnastic skill, and doesn't mention your reaction. if reaction is included (as i would hope) then i could lose dodge, use those points gained to buy the bioware, keep my strength score intact, and even buy a few ranks of unarmed combat.

[Ryu]

Thanks for the essence explanation, now i understand that losing a little bit of magic is'nt so bad for what i can get in return.

Also, i had noticed gymnastic dodge, but it says that you only use your gymnastic skill, and doesn't mention your reaction. if reaction is included (as i would hope) then i could lose dodge, use those points gained to buy the bioware, keep my strength score intact, and even buy a few ranks of unarmed combat.

Reaction stays in it, no worries. Before you loose Dodge, you have to decide if you want missile parry at some point.

[Banatine]

well i do like missle parry, but after looking at it closer, i'm not sure that i need it. maybe i'm just not thinking about what i can do with the projectile after i've grabbed it.

i mean, apart from the obvious point of not getting hot by the projectile, what's next?

[Ryu]

Depends.

a) you describe how cool that looks, and how you throw the knife back at the attacker / drop the projectile and proceed to close combat. Will not happen often in our game, projectile weapons are somewhat rare.

b) the grenade detonates on touch.



This is certainly a gimmick power, not appearing in any powergamers dreams. On the other hand, if you don´t take such feats, there is little value in playing an adept. As the main book had to cover the basics first, with a focus on the (close) combat adept, you´ll find most of those powers in Street Magic.

[Banatine]

I understand what you mean, but i don't want to take skills i'm unlikely to use in favour of skills i will use just because i can.

[Ryu]

I understand what you mean, but i don't want to take skills i'm unlikely to use in favour of skills i will use just because i can.

Then I would suggest taking max. ressources instead of magic (and get rid of sensitive system). Invest nearly all of your money into bioware, and you are set to go.

Assuming you take 34 BP more on ressources, you have 170k¥. That can pay for synaptic booster 1 (one can make do with 2 IP), Muscle Aug&Toner 2, Synthacardium 3, and Orthoskin 1. There are tons of cheap upgrades for such a build, as opposed to karma-wise expensive additional adept powers.

[Banatine]

Then I would suggest taking max. ressources instead of magic (and get rid of sensitive system). Invest nearly all of your money into bioware, and you are set to go.

Assuming you take 34 BP more on ressources, you have 170k¥. That can pay for synaptic booster 1 (one can make do with 2 IP), Muscle Aug&Toner 2, Synthacardium 3, and Orthoskin 1. There are tons of cheap upgrades for such a build, as opposed to karma-wise expensive additional adept powers.

when you put it that way, i suppose it does make a little more sense. the only thing i would like to know if i was going to take him that way though: how does upgrading bioware work? if i wanted to upgrade my synaptic booster to 2, would it only cost another 80K (since i already have 1, assuming i don't buy deltaware), or do i have to buy completely new synaptic boosters?

I'm wondering because this game probably isn't going to last very long (2 or 3 months at most), so long term plans probably aren't the best choice for me.

[TheOOB]

If you are going melee adept you should defiantly try to get a weapon focus, the bonuses you get for it help to mitigate some of the bonuses you lose for not having much ware.

Also, it's a small thing, but I would suggest turning your specialization in blades to a weapon type(sword I would assume), most opponents you face will be using ranged weapons, or be worse then you at melee combat, so killing them as fast as possible is important. You can always throw a melee spec of dodge(but that would make you lose the ability to take ranged spec natch) and if I have the rules right you can take a blocking spec with unarmed, using that skill for your defense and your blade for offense, though your GM has every right to require you to use your blade for defense if you are using it for offense.

[Ryu]

when you put it that way, i suppose it does make a little more sense. the only thing i would like to know if i was going to take him that way though: how does upgrading bioware work? if i wanted to upgrade my synaptic booster to 2, would it only cost another 80K (since i already have 1, assuming i don't buy deltaware), or do i have to buy completely new synaptic boosters?

I'm wondering because this game probably isn't going to last very long (2 or 3 months at most), so long term plans probably aren't the best choice for me.

Yeah, I agree. Within that short timeframe, the character had better work out of the gate. Your concept can be handled with either adept magic or implants. Which do you like better, conceptually?

My group permits upgrades to rated bioware by paying for the difference. The usual way would be rip out - install new - sell old as used (10% base). The specific upgrade of Synaptic Booster 1->2 is pretty expensive (no short-term goal for most campaigns), but you should not get hung up on the number of IPs anyway. Two are pretty nice to have, more is an extra.

[Banatine]

conceptually i prefer the idea of the genetically enhanced super-assassin (fits the Grey Fox mold a little better), so i've decided do go with that. (and our DM said i would never be able to spend that much money!)

All that's left now is to decide my contacts. i know what i had in mind, but the DM said the game was going to be set in denver, which might change things. is there anything about denver likely to affect the availability of any type of contact?

EDIT: Just looked at the numbers again, and realised i have 26 points left for contacts. that seems a little too much. maybe i should put one more point into pistols or something...