Shadowrun Taboos, What do you think? Options

[masterofm]

So instead of derailing a thread that was already pointlessly derailed I have instead decided to post it here as a question. What is Taboo in Shadowrun? I understand that much of this is arbitrary, but I would like to know what people think.

The biggest taboos I think are various forms of mind control (influence, mob mind... ect.)

Things that invade someones mind w/o their consent like mind probing, psychotropic ICE, or forcing someone into VR and feeding them BTL chips of your own choosing would be a big no no.


A lesser taboo I'm thinking of would be forcing someone into a mental state against their will would also be considered right up there. For instance shooting a troll with a kamakazi injector pellet and then shooting him with stick and shock and watching the insanity might be a big no no.

Although there are many taboos in SR I think the biggest thing about SR is you have to get caught red handed for anything bad to happen. I would however like to know other people's thoughts on what is or is not taboo in the Shadowrun world.

[the_real_elwood]

For every taboo you can come up with, there's always someone out there crazy enough or evil enough to do that. Just like the doctor that was raising kids in the Matrix, the general public was outraged, but he only lost his corp backing after the public found out about it. Nothing in the Sixth World is taboo enough for no one to try it.

[Cantankerous]

I still say that because people in general are so sexually repressed and hung up, and children are still, even in Shadowrun, perceived as the ultimate innocents, that the sexual predation of children will always be a no no for a culture. The definition of "what is a child" may differ, but if it does, that same culture will allow adults rights to those no longer protected against the taboo against the sexual predation of a minor. In other words, if you have a culture where a boy of 14 is no longer consider a boy for protection from predation, he will also have most of the same rights and privileges that adults of the same socio-economic standing have. This one is really iron clad historically, and there are few, if any, other topics that are so staunchly viewed as despicable.


Isshia

[Riley37]

As I read Street Magic, most Awaked people consider the the following activities taboo:

Toxic magic, eg conjuring toxic spirits.

Summoning insect spirits.

Using the Sacrifice metamagic on non-consenting metahumans. (Although some people don't consider all metahumans "people"; extreme Humanis is probably fine with sacrificing orks, and extreme Sons of Sauron is probably fine with sacrificing humans.)

Of course, whenever someone breaks a taboo, then interesting stories become more possible.

A taboo that no one, anywhere, ever breaks? Only the ones enforced by the Universe: no resurrection, no teleportation for mundanes, and don't EVER fire an assault rifle in each hand.

[masterofm]

Well Cantankerous I hate to disagree with you on the fact that it has "never been done in history." When slaves were still around in the Americas there were people who you know.... and it wasn't considered taboo. They were considered property and not actual humans so people who owned slaves could do whatever they wanted to them w/o consequences. It is why most African Americans are pretty much all mixed race. Now there was a different concept on that these people were not actually humans and therefore might not fall under the societies understanding of "children" and if it is or isn't acceptable to molest or hurt them. However I believe that in 2070 yes this is a big no no in pretty much 99% of the SR world.

Taboos get broken I was just wondering what the 2070's taboos are, since I feel like the acceptable has been stretched.

[KCKitsune]

Masterofm, I think the only taboo left would probably be incest. Everything else is nothing more than really exotic sex/entertainment. Honestly, if someone wants to have sex with animals, then they could probably find a were-animal willing to do the nasty with them. Hell some shapeshifters might get off on it... who knows.

Also with VR, even the taboo of incest goes away. You're not really porking your mother/father/sister/brother, you're screwing some virtual person. It's just over-glorified masturbation.

[hyzmarca]

It would seriously vary from society to society, as it does now.

[Cantankerous]

Well Cantankerous I hate to disagree with you on the fact that it has "never been done in history." When slaves were still around in the Americas there were people who you know.... and it wasn't considered taboo. They were considered property and not actual humans so people who owned slaves could do whatever they wanted to them w/o consequences. It is why most African Americans are pretty much all mixed race. Now there was a different concept on that these people were not actually humans and therefore might not fall under the societies understanding of "children" and if it is or isn't acceptable to molest or hurt them. However I believe that in 2070 yes this is a big no no in pretty much 99% of the SR world.

Taboos get broken I was just wondering what the 2070's taboos are, since I feel like the acceptable has been stretched.

Actually, no. What you did with your own slaves was your business, but heaven help you if people found out. I'm a mutt, man, part Native American, part African American, part European and my own varied heritage always fascinated me. So, I did ALLOT of research on this topic. And you happen to be VERY wrong. Even on the Indian (Hindi) sub-continent, where the age at which a child was no longer considered a child was lower for most of it's history than in any other part of the world where written records were routinely kept, under a certain age even the sexual abuse of slaves was universally taboo. Not because they were slaves, but because they were children.

In the US South, it was taboo just to have sex with your African slaves. Period. And the children that came out of such unions were doubly taboo. Ever read the mark Twain classic, "The Tragedy of Puddin' Head Wilson"? And the sexual abuse of girls that were too young for the ruling culture (but were often already considered adults among the Africans themselves) was HUGELY taboo. This did not stop the abuse entirely, but you DAMNED sure made certain that no one found out about it, because it was actually an offense for which you could have your slaves taken away in many Southern States (with Georgia being the toughest on it). But hey, it's the nature of taboos to get broken.

Still though, that doesn't make them any less taboo.


Isshia

[Janice]

don't EVER fire an assault rifle in each hand.

I've broken that one

[Rad]

A lesser taboo I'm thinking of would be forcing someone into a mental state against their will would also be considered right up there. For instance shooting a troll with a kamakazi injector pellet and then shooting him with stick and shock and watching the insanity might be a big no no.

Actually, this was a potential wetwork tactic I came up with: Snipe the target with capsule rounds loaded with DMSO/K10.

Keep firing until permanent berserk sets in.

Especially effective when fired through a window during a board meeting.

[Janice]

Actually, this was a potential wetwork tactic I came up with: Snipe the target with capsule rounds loaded with DMSO/K10.

Keep firing until permanent berserk sets in.

Especially effective when fired through a window during a board meeting.

I highly doubt you'd need to bother with multiple shots. Unless they're prime runners, they don't even get edge with which to make the edge test.

[ludomastro]

I highly doubt you'd need to bother with multiple shots. Unless they're prime runners, they don't even get edge with which to make the edge test.

Unless they are filler, all targets have edge in my games. Not much but usually a point. However, YMMV.

/off topic

While runners wouldn't see it, I would imagine that being a TM would be fairly taboo in the hysteria of 2070.

[Karaden]

Actually, this was a potential wetwork tactic I came up with: Snipe the target with capsule rounds loaded with DMSO/K10.

Keep firing until permanent berserk sets in.

Especially effective when fired through a window during a board meeting.

Why would you shoot them with a drugged dart as opposed to.. you know, a bullet? If they're important enough to be killed, they're important enough to be given antidotes to drugs like that.

As for the OP... You ask an interesting question. I mean, isn't 99% of what shadowrunners do taboo? Killing, stealing, general mayhem, yadda yadda yadda. I would think all of these would be 'taboo'. But I suppose you mean something that 99% of people would look down on as opposed to about 50%.

I'd imagine not alot in SR times. Incest likely would, but only actually going through with it as opposed to say hiring a joygirl who happens to look like your sister. That and child molestation (once again, only the actual act as opposed to faxsimilies).

In the non sexual catagories, toxic magic and insect spirits... I'm sure a general undead taboo as well, and unwilling live sacrifices.

I would think mind altering drugs and mind control and such would be put under the catagory of distasteful (like stealing) as opposed to taboo. I mean, it isn't all that different then kidnapping someone and torturing them. It isn't well received, but it isn't what most would consider a taboo.

[HappyDaze]

Incest likely would

Keep in mind that the state of SR genetics and their availability means that most of the physical problems of incest can easily be dealt with. With that out of the way, bias against incest are about as warranted as racism or other forms of prejudice, and pro-incest activist groups would have their place.

[Janice]

I'm sure a general undead taboo as well

Are there even actual undead in Shadowrun? All I've seen are HMHVV infected, corpse robots (I refuse to call what they presented in Street Magic zombies), and spirits which may or may not be dead people.

[hyzmarca]

The main issue with incest isn't genetics, but the Westermark effect. The actual increase in the probability of birth defects produced by single-generation incest is so low that, on its own, it can be ignored. It is only when certain recessive genetic diseases are known to run in a family that problems crop up. However, it is simply natural for people who live in the same household, particularly who grow up in the same household, to be devoid of sexual feelings for each other, and to actually have anti-sexual feelings for each other. This sexual revulsion is then extended to others and generalized. For people who grow up with brothers and sisters, the very concept of sibling incest tends to be revolting, and they'll have strong negative feelings toward people who engage in it.

People who grew up without siblings, on the other hand, tend not to have such strong views on the matter. And siblings who grew up apart tend to be strongly attracted to each other.

This has interesting implications for systems in which non-related children are raised together from an early age, such as the kibbutz Children's Society system.

[Ol' Scratch]

I really shouldn't be getting as turned on by this topic as I am.

[Karaden]

Are there even actual undead in Shadowrun? All I've seen are HMHVV infected, corpse robots (I refuse to call what they presented in Street Magic zombies), and spirits which may or may not be dead people.

I ment more along the lines of possessing corpses. Come to think of it, organlegging would be a fine line between taboo and simply distasteful. Alot of people think the dead should be buried/burned and otherwise left alone.

[Ol' Scratch]

Zombies = Possessed Corpses.

[HappyDaze]

The main issue with incest isn't genetics, but the Westermark effect. The actual increase in the probability of birth defects produced by single-generation incest is so low that, on its own, it can be ignored. It is only when certain recessive genetic diseases are known to run in a family that problems crop up. However, it is simply natural for people who live in the same household, particularly who grow up in the same household, to be devoid of sexual feelings for each other, and to actually have anti-sexual feelings for each other. This sexual revulsion is then extended to others and generalized. For people who grow up with brothers and sisters, the very concept of sibling incest tends to be revolting, and they'll have strong negative feelings toward people who engage in it.

People who grew up without siblings, on the other hand, tend not to have such strong views on the matter. And siblings who grew up apart tend to be strongly attracted to each other.

This has interesting implications for systems in which non-related children are raised together from an early age, such as the kibbutz Children's Society system.

Among other things, the wieless AR world that links just about everyone together is goig to alter the perception of family. Even today, family boundaries are changing, by 2070 with magic super-tech and them crazy injuns, getting head from your siter may just be perfectly acceptable, who knows...

[Red_Cap]

. . . getting head from your sister may just be perfectly acceptable, who knows...

Acceptable, perhaps, but still. . . I believe "revolting" is the term I'm looking for. Then again, I fall into the same-household category that hyzmarca was talking about, so apparently, I'm naturally biased against it.

[HappyDaze]

Acceptable, perhaps, but still. . . I believe "revolting" is the term I'm looking for.

That may be the reaction to homosexual and cross-metatype couples too, but since we are told those are OK (since it reflects a progression of today's views on same sex and multi-racial couples), I'm sure other that things may have changed to allow for various things that might be considered deviancy by today's standards.

[hyzmarca]

That may be the reaction to homosexual and cross-metatype couples too, but since we are told those are OK (since it reflects a progression of today's views on same sex and multi-racial couples), I'm sure other that things may have changed to allow for various things that might be considered deviancy by today's standards.

Actually, cross-metatype couples aren't okay. They're actually less okay than polygamous lesbians in a pentangular relationship. At least, it was as of Sprawl Survival Guide. Most often the worst such interracial couples would get are strange looks, but more than a few people would gladly make an example of them by hanging their corpses in some public place. But that's just in Seattle.

Different areas and different cultures will have different taboos, as is the case today. There are still some deeply traditional cultures in the Sixth World which hold on to their traditional ways, including traditional taboos. Others are much more "enlightened".

[HappyDaze]

Different areas and different cultures will have different taboos, as is the case today.

Yes but...

The massive easy-to-use AR interfaces (remember, damn near everyone can get a commlink, sim module, and even linguasofts) means that the cultures are almost impossible to isolate and the amount of blending will put even our most cosmopolitan communities to shame. For some this might actually allow for less blending - the link is used to keep in touch only with those of the same subculture - but for most it will be a gateway towards a pan-global community. And that means a lot of AR porn of all types...

[Cardul]

You know...I am hoping when Vice comes out, it will have a section in it on Taboos, as, well...the topic DOES seem to come up on here alot.