Genetics & Awakening, Can Cultured Clones Awaken? Options

[Muspellsheimr]

I have been reviewing the genetics section of Augmentation, & specifically, the Magus Factor. My understanding is that the potential to Awaken is encoded into an individuals genetics. While the so-called "Magus Factor" has never been located, everything indicates that it does exist. That being said, it is known that while it seems all Awakened individuals possess this Magus Factor, not all individuals who possess the Magus Factor Awaken. This indicates that Awakening is due, in part, to the environment the individual resides & grows in.

If anyone has cannon material to contradict the above, please post it here for me. Until then, I will assume it is accurate.


Next, clones can be created "Cultured", that is with a given individuals specific blood type, & potentially DNA. We know that functional clonal brains can be created, as they are used for Cyborgs; such brains do not, however, possess any memories or life experiences. We know the clonal organs are functional, as they are commonly used for replacements. This leads to the conclusion that fully functional & living clones can be created, albeit without memories or experiences.

Now we reach the point of this thread. Let us assume a full genetic sample of an Awakened human is used to create a Cultured full body (including brain) clone. This clone is then "activated". The clone should then be able to function fully, as long as such function does not require previous memories. The clone can learn, act, & live; the clone is not, however, Awakened. The question now is, can this clone Awaken, if exposed to the appropriate environmental triggers?



Now to take this to a different, although related subject. With the advanced virtual technology of the Sixth World, it is possible to analyze, record, edit, & implant memories & experiences into a metahuman brain. If we take a full recording of someones life experiences & memories, what, if anything, prevents us from implanting that into a clonal brain, bypassing the usual flaws such brains possess.


In conclusion, it seems to me it is possible to take a recording of someones brain, create a replica of their body (including Awakened potential), & "install" the recordings into the clonal brain. Would this clone then be any different (aside from not yet Awakened) be any different from the original at the time the memories where recorded? Would this, in a way, provide a form of resurrection in a setting where such is otherwise impossible?

[Ol' Scratch]

The fact that you can take the Escaped Clone and any of the Magician qualities kind of proves that you can, in fact, be an Awakened clone. Throw in some Personafixes and you're set. And while you may think you're an exact duplicate, you really aren't. Sort of like in that God-awful Schwarzenegger flick. The Sixth Day or whatever.

[Muspellsheimr]

I had completely forgotten about the Escaped Clone quality. Well, that basically negates the point of this thread. Still, thanks for pointing it out.

[Rad]

Yeah, from what they've shown, shadowrun tech can't perfectly duplicate the mind of a sentient metahuman. Also, there are implications that the awakening (or not) of clones has to due with an awakened's aura being something semi-distinct from their biology, given that part about wimps (full body clones) not always being awakened, even if the donor is, but cloned organs always becoming awakened when incorporated into an awakened donor.

Seems like the aura of an awakened character has to overlap with it's body for the body to be awakened, and that cloning the body produces a new, distinct aura, rather than duping it along with the genes.

Makes for some interesting plot hooks, like an escaped clone who's awakened but the original isn't, and is convinced the clone "stole" their awakening and means to take it back from them.

There's actually a precedent for certain traits that express differently even with identical genes. If I remember correctly, identical twins have the same DNA but still have different fingerprints. Might be remembering that wrong though.

[Vermithrax]

There's actually a precedent for certain traits that express differently even with identical genes. If I remember correctly, identical twins have the same DNA but still have different fingerprints. Might be remembering that wrong though.

You are correct. Twins have differing fingerprints.

[Method]

There are lots of mechanisms for variable expression of genes. Epigenetic changes, imprinting, random X inactivation (in females), etc. etc. It is definitely possible. These are the same reasons why a clone is unlikely to be exactly the same as their progenitor. Plus there is no rule that says the corp that produced the clone didn't meddle with their genes a bit.

[hyzmarca]

Now to take this to a different, although related subject. With the advanced virtual technology of the Sixth World, it is possible to analyze, record, edit, & implant memories & experiences into a metahuman brain. If we take a full recording of someones life experiences & memories, what, if anything, prevents us from implanting that into a clonal brain, bypassing the usual flaws such brains possess.


In conclusion, it seems to me it is possible to take a recording of someones brain, create a replica of their body (including Awakened potential), & "install" the recordings into the clonal brain. Would this clone then be any different (aside from not yet Awakened) be any different from the original at the time the memories where recorded? Would this, in a way, provide a form of resurrection in a setting where such is otherwise impossible?

No one can create a full copy of someone's mind. Though E-Ghosts exist, the process of creating them is both unknown and extremely dangerous. Simsense records experiences as they happen, I'm not sure how clearly one could copy past memories. And there is no way to directly implant E-ghosts or recorded memories into a brain, either. Programming memories into a subject requires a use of a PAB device, which is very time consuming. It could take a trained psychiatrist years to implant a full set of life-memories into a brain.

[Mordinvan]

Since RAW seems to indicate it takes years for a clonal brain to be made which can support normal functionality anyway, I don't really see this as being an issue.

[Cabral]

I had completely forgotten about the Escaped Clone quality. Well, that basically negates the point of this thread. Still, thanks for pointing it out.

I disagree. You asked if you can clone an awakened metahuman to create an awakened clone. The negative quality only answers half the question - "can a clone be Awakened?"

The other half, is a clone of an Awakened metahuman automatically Awakened as well, is not answered by the Quality. My guess with no rules to back it up is: No; you roll the metagenetic dice each time.

That said, imagine being the Awakened Escaped Clone of a Mundane ...

[Rad]

Already did imagine that, that's why I mentioned the idea in my earlier post. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

As for a RAW answer, Augmentation says "not always" to clones of the awakened being awakened as well. Also, IIRC Escaped Clone is a positive quality, because it screws up biometric ID scans. Lol Runner's Companion, I guess--it has a lot of counterintuitive qualities.

[Edit] Yep, positive quality, listed right after erased. You get to be some rich corper's evil, shadowrunning twin and all it costs you is 5bp and a -1 to social rolls with people who know you're a clone. [/edit]

[TheOOB]

The key thing to remember about magic in Shadowrun, magic never works the way you think it does. No matter how much the scientists think they know about magic, they still find themselves surprised on a daily basis. What this means is that a clone of an awakened person *might* awaken(though it most likely has a smaller chance then the original did, being a perversion of science and all). Heck, a clone of a mudane with no awakened ancestry might awaken, just to spite science and logic.

We've figured out some of the factors that make awakening more or less likely, but we have by no means figured out what in fact causes the awakening, and the second we do it will probably be replaced by something that makes even less sense.

[Muspellsheimr]

I thought I made it clear in my initial post - I guess not. What I was getting at is that, from what I have read, a clone of an Awakened individual should always have the potential to Awaken. This does not mean that it will Awaken.

[Rad]

I'd agree with that--it says organs harvested from a wimp become awakened when implanted in an awakened donor's body, so the potential to awaken is certainly there.

[Ol' Scratch]

Do they say that if you remove said organ from said Awakened body and implant it in someone else, it stays Awakened? Because I imagine it has absolutely nothing to do with the organ itself, nor that organs Awaken because, frankly, that's just retardedly stupid.

[Cabral]

Already did imagine that, that's why I mentioned the idea in my earlier post. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeah, I need to start hitting refresh before i get around to posting in a thread I have open as a tab ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Rad]

Meh, happens to me all the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[HappyDaze]

Do they say that if you remove said organ from said Awakened body and implant it in someone else, it stays Awakened? Because I imagine it has absolutely nothing to do with the organ itself, nor that organs Awaken because, frankly, that's just retardedly stupid.

I'm having a wonderful laugh thinking of getting 'Awakened kidneys' or an 'Awakened colon'... Ah, it's gone now. Thanks for that.

[hobgoblin]

sidetrack but looks like a ok place for it, how come wimps are called that?

i flipped thru augmentation but came up empty...

[fistandantilus4....]

No one can create a full copy of someone's mind. Though E-Ghosts exist, the process of creating them is both unknown and extremely dangerous.

Quicksilver did. Then Transys got the tech.

[darthmord]

Or you could go find JackBNimble... he can 'save' you... to a file.

Perhaps the file can be uploaded to a body?

Maybe Cap isn't gone?

Oh my, conspiracies abound!