[X] My Assistant

[ElFenrir]

So, generally, uncybered mundanes are quite a bit behind their magical or cybered(or both) bretheren. The latter have more tricks, and generally more of everything. It's been discussed fairly often around here.

But I still wasn't convinced that uncybered mundanes would always be left in the dust. So I set out to make a few samples that, IMO, I think could at the very least not be a detriment to the party, or even hang with their ''better'' mates.

I did use the Karmagen. The Karmagen is excellent for these types, giving them that little bit of the edge they need(mainly, uncybered mundanes should indeed have a solid attribute and skill base, since they don't have much else.) This isn't a discussion of ''of course they are better in Karmagen'', but since our table uses it now, and it's excellent for these types(and Technomancers), I wanted to use it.

One thing these guys have is that if they leave behind their weapons, they are totally legal. Of course, a mundane non-cyber might have a truckload of illegal demolitions and guns at their house...but if they're locked up, they can travel through that airport gate without a problem.

From a chargen standpoint, the money saved on all of the other stuff can be used on plenty of toys, lifestyle, or just spent as karma for more skills and goodies.

The three characters are an ork gunbunny/tankish type, an elf close-combat type(with some ranged), and a more detective-type.

I utilized things like Positive Qualities heavily; things to give them a natural edge. Speaking of Edge...that's another thing I utilized heavily. It will be a great boon to the combat types in particular; by letting them get extra passes when it looks like they might need them-the combat types biggest weakness is lack of extra passes. Edge is great anyway; it goes doubly for these guys.

First up, we have our tanky ork gunbunny.

[ Spoiler ]

Maxwell Harper
Ork Male
25 years old
Blonde hair(longish), hazel eyes
1.9 meters, 120kg

Maxwell is a young ork with a keen eye and a penchant for firearms. Spending a couple years in the military before an incident sent him underground, he always refused cyber treatments-his body doesn't like them too much. Even though he could accept bioware, he took it as sort of a ''sign'' that many they weren't for him, and uses his raw, natural talent and skills to help out, along with his knowledges about such things. He's also quite adept at building and repairing firearms, and has quite the knowledge on them. Max isn't too bad with his Cougar Fineblade Long, either. Max is a tall, pretty well-built Ork with shaggy blonde hair and an appearance and dress style that's a throwback to the days of old thrash metal-with his jeans and leather jackets.

+ Qualities:

Firefight Level 2(-2 Melee Penalty)
Krav Maga Level 2(Ready Weapon Free Action, -1 Melee Penalty)
Lightning Reflexes(+2 Reaction)

- Qualities:

Sensitive System
SINner
Allergy/Mild/Soy

Net: -10 Karma


Attributes[381 Karma]

Body: 8
Agility: 5
Reaction: 5(7)
Strength: 6
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 5
Logic: 3
Willpower: 3
Edge: 5
Initative: 12/1
Essence: 6

Active Skills[267]

Pistols[Semi-Auto]: 5(+2)
Automatics[SMGs]: 5(+2)
Longarms[Shotguns]: 4(+2)
Blades[Knives]: 2[+2]
Athletics Skill Group: 4
Armorer[Firearms]: 4(+2)
Etiquette[Street]: 3(+2)
Con: 3
Negotations: 3
Infiltration[Urban]: 3[+2]
Perception[Visual]: 3[+2]
Pilot Ground Craft[Wheeled]: 2[+2]

Knowledge/Language Skills[58]

Firearms Design: 3
Firearms History: 3
Safehouse Locations: 3
20th Century Thrash Metal: 2
AK: Pullayup: 2
Local Bars: 3
Small Unit Tactics: 2

English: N
Russian: 3
German: 3

Maneuvers[12 Karma]

Blind-Fighting
Evasion
Watchful Guard

Contacts[36 Karma]:

Fixer: C5 L3
Bartender: C2 L2
Snitch: C2 L2

Gear: 50,000 nuyen worth. Probably a kit/shop, fake ID, some customized toys, and with an 8 body, the sky's the limit for his armor.

He has 1 karma remaining.

Ok, so Max does pretty damn well for a mundane human. His Initative is strong, and his Edge can buy him another pass. With a set of contacts with a smartlink, he throws 14 dice with his specialities(13 with Shotguns), which ain't bad at all. He's sturdy as hell, his 6 strength gives him a point of recoil(which he can get more of on the guns). He also does a pretty nice job building and fixing them(9 dice.) He's got social skills to see him through and he's not too bad in the Urban Stealth department with 10 dice. He's going to be rather hard to hurt for a mundane; his 7 reaction and Athletics give him a hell of a defense pool, and then there is the 8 Body and any armor to deal with. His Willpower is average, but a stunbolt can take out a heavily cybered sam just as easily.

Not bad for a mundane Ork.

Now, for some pointy-ears:

[ Spoiler ]

Sariel Garan
Elf Male, 24 years old
Long, black hair, blue eyes
1.95 meters, 95kg

Sariel is a fairly young elf with a calmness usually not seen in someone of his age. In frightening physical shape-tough, lightning fast and strong as an ox, he might be as magical as a rock-but he refused to get implants due to the fact he ''might'' awaken one of these days, especially as an Adept. He still holds onto this. Until then, he will prove, and keep proving that he doesn't need such things to take somebody down, wether it's with his no-dachi or his fists and feet. He is very skilled with a pistol as well, though he usually doesn't like to use them unless things are looking down. He was born to a rich and distant family who ended up on the wrong side of some Big, Important people, and when he got involved to defend them, he ended up killing the man who was sent with his bare hands, and then he had people after him, as well, so to the underground he went. He's usually seen wearing loose cargos, heavy, steel-capped boots, hardened gloves and a black armored jacket.

+ Qualities[70 Karma]
Kickboxing Lv. 2[+2 DV Unarmed]
Carromeleg Lv. 2[+2 dice Surprise tests]
Lightning Reflexes

- Qualities[40]
Allergy/Mod/Gold
SINner
Lost Loved One

Net: -30 Karma

Attributes[300]

Body: 5
Agility: 7
Reaction: 5[7]
Strength: 5
Charisma: 5
Intuition: 5
Logic: 3
Willpower: 4
Edge: 5
Initative: 12/1
Essence: 6

Active Skills[281 Karma]

Unarmed Combat(Martial Arts): 5(+2)
Blades(Swords): 5(+2)
Pistols(Semi-Automatics): 4(+2)
Etiquette: 3
Intimidation(Mental): 3(+2)
Negotations(Sense Motive): 3(+2)
Thrown Weapons: 2
Pilot Ground Craft(Wheeled): 2(+2)
Infiltration(Urban): 4(+2)
Shadowing(Tailing): 3(+2)
Perception(Visual): 3(+2)
Con: 3
Athletics Skill Group: 4

Knowledge/Language: [67 Karma]

Local Area Knowledge: 3
Martial Arts History: 3
Ultraviolent Trid: 3
Safehouse Locations: 3
Heavy-Classical Music: 3
Shady Underground Clubs: 3
Shadowrunner Haunts: 3
Magic Background: 2

English: N
Sperethiel: 3
Japanese: 3

Maneuvers[24 Karma]

Kick Attack
Finishing Blow
Riposte
Watchful Guard
Set Up
Herding

Contacts[38 Karma]

Fixer: C5 L3
Bartender: C2 L2
Technomancer: C3 L4


Gear: 25,000 nuyen, and 10 Karma. I got him Hardliner stuff for extra unarmed DV(we use both gloves and boots), a Nodachi(personalized grip), Armored Jacket with FFBA 2 and forearm/shin guards, a Predator, and then there is the contacts, earbuds, fake IDs and the like.

Well, this guy is pretty painful as well. Unarmed with his hardliners, he hits for 6P damage, and throws 14 dice(15 when he's kicking you) to do it. With his No-Dachi, he throws 17 dice total. +2 Reach, +1 Personalized Grip. Yeah, a mundane guy who can kick you with 15 dice or sword you with 17. He's dangerous. His 5 Body grants him an above-average damage pool and lets him wear good armor; and like our friend Maxwell he can dodge pretty damn well, too. Again, good Edge, can buy more passes, and with his nice Infiltration score[13 dice Urban], he can utilize his Carromeleg bonus and kick them for 17 dice from surprise, and we know how surprises go; Riposte is awesome with his high Blocking skill, as he can turn the attack around; Set Up and Finishing Blow are killers. He's also no slouch socially either, with a 5 Charisma.

Finally, we have our older fellow-a human investigator whom I was kind of inspired by Lennie Briscoe of Law and Order for.

[ Spoiler ]

Harry Jameson
Human Male
45 years old
salt/pepper hair, brown eyes

Harry worked on the force for awhile as a top crime scene investigator and detective...but he really didn't like the way things were going. Even though he was always around in the realm of cyber and bioware, he simply had this want, or this urge, to not touch his body with the stuff in any way. He was never magical(though he knows a bit about it.) He left the force after using some of his skills to destroy his paper trail; he was tired of the corruption and seeing how some of the little guys were mistreated and given rather unfair trials. He keeps his credo of not touching his body with outside influences(besides a little alcohol or ciggarettes), but gladly lends his skills out to who needs them. He's still in good shape for his age, and has the eyes of an eagle when it comes to finding clues and pinpointing details. He has a rather vast network of contacts gathered, as well.

+ Qualities[70]

Perceptive Lv. 2
Hawk Eye
Analytical Mind
Common Sense
School of Hard Knocks
Erased

- Qualities[60]

Allergy/Mild/Silver
Enemy
Record on File
SINner
Addiction/Mild/Alcohol

Attributes:

Body: 4
Agility: 4
Reaction: 4
Strength: 3
Charisma: 5
Intuition: 5
Logic: 5
Willpower: 5
Edge: 6
Initative: 9/1
Essence: 6

Active Skills[262 Karma]

Pistols(Revolvers): 3(+2)
Longarms[Shotguns]: 2(+2)
Perception[Visual]: 5(+2)
Etiquette: 4
Negotations: 4
Con: 4
Dodge[Ranged]: 3(+2)
Unarmed Combat[Subdual]: 2(+2)
Infiltration[Urban]: 4(+2)
Shadowing[Tailing]: 5(+2)
Intimidation: 3
Data Search: 4
Computer: 3
Running: 1


Knowledge/Language Skills[75 Karma]

Chemistry: 3
Police Procedures: 3
Underworld Politics: 3
Safehouse Locations: 3
Jazz Music: 2
Local Area Knowledge: 4
Magic Background: 2
Black Market Pipelines: 3
Prostitution Rings: 3

English: N
Spanish: 3
Italian: 3

Contacts(44 Karma):

Snitch: C2 L2
Fixer: C3 L2
Beat Cop: C1 L2
Bartender: C1 L3
Talismonger: C2 L1
Mob Soldier: C2 L1

Gear: 15 BP, or 37,500 nuyen. A couple of guns, some body armor, a car, glasses with visual enhancements and the like, earbuds, and then the good ol' stakeout gear can go here.

Well, this guy isn't quite as robust or dangerous toe to toe as the top two, but being a 45 year old mundane human, with a smartlinked pair of glasses he still throws 11 dice to shoot you with his revolver, or 10 with a shotgun, so he's nothing to laugh at. Subdual combat gets him 8 dice if he needs to throw down, so he's not a chump. His place isn't in the front lines, however; it's utilizing his amazing Perception(with audio/visual enhancements, he throws a stupid amount of dice to notice things-to be precise, he throws 17 dice to notice things visually, 15 audio, and 12 for everything else. His Shadowing skill is awesome(12 dice to tail someone), and he's stealthy. He's got enough Data Search and Computer skill that he can utilize a commlink and programs to track people well, and he's got a nice pile of contacts, though they aren't the most connected bunch. If this guy wants to find you, he probably can. He brings plenty to the table in all of those things, as well as his large pool of knowledge skills.

So yeah, three uncybered mundane samples. Sure, if they WERE cybered or magical, they would be better. The gunslinger would be even more deadly, the elf would be death on two legs, and the investigator could find the needle in a haystack in about twelve seconds. But as they are, they are still, IMO; very viable, if not rather scary in some ways, characters.

I'd also like to encourage others, if they have ideas, to post 'em up here, for those folks who might like this type. Honestly, I am more of a cyber or magic fan. But I still think there is a place for these folks, and they won't be useless to the group. The only guidelines:

Must be a mundane/non cybered/non Technomancer.

Metavariants are allowed-but nothing with a Magic attribute; so no pixies, vampires or shapeshifters. A mundane, non magical Hobgoblin is fine. [I know, you can technically be a pixie without any Magican qualities, but I'd like to leave this totally mundane.]

While I won't forbid Changelings as they can be dead mundane...I think they kind of go against the spirit of this. I like Changelings a lot, I think they are cool, but some of their stuff is sorta doable by cyber(claws, fangs, Kid Stealth legs, venom spit, etc.)

Perhaps if we get enough of these we can even donate them to the Sample Character thread.

[Ancient History]

One of the Jackpoint crew is an unaugmented, non-magician, non-technomancer human.

[psychophipps]

My non-augmented human (barring his flare comp and level damper) has been quite an asset to our group so far. The fact that he suffers from AR Vertigo hasn't affected him at all what with the judicious use of laser sights and the "Aiming is a free action" maneuver I bought for him.

[Karaden]

I fully believe that non-augmented characters can be quite powerful. In fact, I invite you to take a look at the second post in http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t=0&start=0
Look at the spoilers under Keir Lyle and Tayler.

Both are completely non-magic non-augmented characters, and both are amazingly only 200 BP. Now, I admit they aren't going to be impressing any prime runners, but they are each rather good at what they do, which I personally feel is very impressive for my little guys. The other three minions are all 200BP and I think demonstrate well the 'group of specialists beats out generalists' theory. Of course this is about non-augmented non-magic characters. It definitely has my interest and I'll see what I can do with it. Maybe make a few characters and post what I come up with later.

[AngelisStorm]

Aren't unaugmented faces pretty viable?

There are the pherimone enhancers in the base book, and of course all the magical tricks that you can put on an adept.

But really, if your not trying to destroy the world, there aren't alot of bonuses you can get to social skills (I think). Good Cha, good skills, and the little emoticon toy/program, and then unless your GM throws a maxed out social adept at you, your going to be pretty much the top of your game. Right?

[ElFenrir]

Karaden: Nice dudes there. Lower-powered game, but for being that few BP with no extras that ain't bad at all.

Unaugmented faces, IMO, are probably generally considered one of the more viable options. With high Charisma, social skills, and those Emotion toys(hey, they aren't cyber; gear helping is perfectly viable), they can indeed be really good. Hackers, generally, are considered to be the ''best'' when it comes to completely unaugmented builds.

Combat folks, though, are usually seen as sort of problematic. I think I proved up there, though, you can make some scary combatants with no augmentations whatsoever. Between the use of Edge to raise Initiative Passes-and if you are really hard-pressed-something like Jazz, you can make some folks damn deadly. (Again, the IPs are what is usually seen as the tough part for them. Getting high dice pools, as you can see, is not a problem.) Granted, if I were to send one of the guys up there against another guy I had played before(an elf sam, pretty heavy cyber), they might be in for some challenge...but it wouldn't be impossible. For example, Sariel up there can do some serious damage with his bare hands...with his Tailing, Infiltration and high Reaction he has a good chance of getting a Surprise attack off and beating the daylights out of someone. Even in face to face, both of those guys roll 12 dice for Initiative, and have a fair shot of going early in a combat.

Really, any sort of build is viable, but the unaugmented/unawakened just have to make up for a few things.

Oh yeah...and laser sights/aiming is free...hell, about as good as a Smartlink.

AH: Which member is it? I sorta remember the team but I don't recall which one is the normal.

[Cain]

Aren't unaugmented faces pretty viable?

Not really. There are so many ways of pumping up your social dice, you won't be too bad; but in comparison to someone who's properly augmented, you won't even be in the running. I mean, emotoys are nice, but they're so cheap that everyone should have them. I believe the new pornomancer has 51 dice for Seduction tests; no one who's unaugmented could hope to come close. Even against more sane opposition, they have access to all the same tricks you do, plus adept powers, Increase Charisma spells, SURGE abilities, and implants and geneware. You'll be hard-pressed to compete.

[Karaden]

Cain brings up a point. I'm guessing we aren't talking any weird metavariants or SURGEd characters. That would somewhat defeat the point of these guys being 'normal' as compared to all the other hopped up types.

Hackers being one of the best for unaugmented? Are you crazy? Unagumented means no VR, which means no more then 1 IP and losing quite a few bonus dice. Not to mention all the hacking ware out there (Math SPU, Necortical Nanites, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting)

Well, ok, I take back my original statement of 'are you crazy?' It isn't all that much worse then the disadvantage of what others would have. The big thing though, is that a hackers most illegal piece of equipment is his commlink. You aren't going to get stopped at airport security because you have a math SPU. That kinda defeats the purpose of no cyberware, being that you can go in incognito very easily.

Anyway, still working out some ideas for how to really kick it up a notch with non-augmented mundanes.

[Glyph]

Mundanes are far, far from optimal, but they are certainly playable. They may not be as good as their awakened or augmented counterparts, but they can still get their dice pools up to the teens, to where they can contribute to a team.

Let's look at a variant of one of Cain's creations, Mr. Lucky. Is a mundane Mr. Lucky playable? He's certainly not as good as the augmented version, but I could still see him surviving - he might have to use that Edge more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ Spoiler ]

Mr. Lucky variant

BREAKDOWN (400 Points)
Core Attributes: 200
Special Attributes: 75
Race: 0 (Human)
Active Skills: 120
Qualities: +10
Contacts: 5
Resources: 10

=Attributes=
Body: 5
Agility: 5
Reaction: 5
Strength: 2
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 3
Willpower: 3
Edge: 8

Essence: 6.00
Initiative: 10
Initiative Passes: 1
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Track: 10

Current Karma: 0
Total Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Noteriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0

=Qualities=
Allergy: Seawater, Mild
Ambidexterity
Lucky
Scorched
Sensitive System
Weak Immune System

=Active Skills=
Dodge/Ranged: 4/+2
Infiltration: 3
Influence Skill Group: 1
Intimidation: 2
Monofilament Whip: 4
Perception/visual: 4/+2
Pilot Ground Vehicle: 3
Pistols/Semi-Automatic: 6/+2

=Knowledge Skills=
Languages>
English: N
Japanese: 4

Other>
Corporate Politics: 2
Gang Identification: 3
Safe Houses: 2
Security Systems: 4
Underworld Politics: 3

=Contacts=
Fixer (Connection: 3/Loyalty: 2)

=Lifestyle and Gear=
50,000.00 Nuyen to spend.

And let's look at mine, the infamous pornomancer. Bah, seems almost balanced now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) :

[ Spoiler ]

Elf with 9 Charisma. Qualities: Aptitude/Con, Exceptional Attribute/Charisma, First Impression. Get Con at 7 and specialize in Seduction.

That's 9 (Charisma) + 7 (Con) + 2 (specialization) +2 (First Impression) +6 (Empathy Software) = 26 dice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)


Pornomancer
Race: Elven

BREAKDOWN (400 Points)
Core Attributes: 195
Special Attributes: 40
Race: 30
Active Skills: 122
Qualities: 0
Contacts: 6
Resources: 7

=Attributes=
Body: 3
Agility: 3
Reaction: 3
Strength: 1
Charisma: 9
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 5
Edge: 5

Essence: 6.00

=Qualities=
Aptitude/Con
Exceptional Attribute/Charisma
First Impression
---------------
Allergy/Silver, Moderate
Low Pain Tolerance
Sensitive System

=Active Skills=
Con/Seduction: 7/+2
Gymnastics/Dance: 4/+2
Etiquette: 3
Intimidation: 3
Negotiation: 3
Leadership: 3
Perception: 3
Pistols/Semi-Automatic: 2/+2

=Knowledge Skills=
English: N
Sperethiel: 4
--------------
Acting: 4
Local Area Knowledge: 4
Street crime/Vice: 2/+2

=Contacts=
Fixer (4 Connection/2 Loyalty)

=Lifestyle and Gear=
Micro-sensor with camera, skinlink, and empathy software (Rating: 6)
31,850 Nuyen left to spend on Lifestyles and Gear.

[ArkonC]

Hackers being one of the best for unaugmented? Are you crazy? Unagumented means no VR, which means no more then 1 IP and losing quite a few bonus dice. Not to mention all the hacking ware out there (Math SPU, Necortical Nanites, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting)

Are we forgetting about trodes?
Hackers are actually more viable than combat characters because hackers can get extra IPs without magic/resonance/ware...

[Karaden]

Are we forgetting about trodes?
Hackers are actually more viable than combat characters because hackers can get extra IPs without magic/resonance/ware...

Yeah, totally forgot about trodes letting you run cold VR.

Anyway, my entry for unmodified combat monster mundane, enjoy.

[ Spoiler ]

Ultra natural troll

Metarace: Troll
Bod: 10 120
Agi: 5 42
Rea: 6 60
Str: 10 120
Cha: 2 6
Int: 5 42
Log: 1 0
Wil: 6 60
Edge: 6 0
Init: 11

450

Positive Qualities:
Martial Arts 10 (Karate +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 20 (Kickboxing +2 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Tae Kwon Do +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Wildcat +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Kung Fu +1 DV unarmed attacks)
Martial Arts 10 (Boxing +1 DV unarmed attacks)

Mild alcohol addiction -10
Scortched -10
Sensitive System -30
Sensitive Neural Structure -10
Weak Immune System -10

450

Martial Arts Manuvers
Blind Fighting 4
Break Weapon 4
Kick Attack 4
Ground Fighting 4
Sweep 4
Finishing Move 4
Vicious Blow 4

Skills:
Unarmed Combat 6 (Kickboxing) 46
Athletic Group 4 55
Infiltration 4 (Urban) 24
Perception (Visual) 24
Survival 4 22
Intimidation 4 (Physical) 24
Demolitions 22
First Aid 4 22
Heavy Weapons 4 22

739

Resources: 7500 3

Form Fitting Full-Body Suit 6/2 1600
Armor Jacket 8/6 900
Helmet +2/+1 100
Forearm Guards +0/+1 200
Leg and Arm Castings +1/+1 350
Shin Guards +0/+1 150
Vitals Protectors +1/+1 200
Bike Racing Armor 4/7 500
Auto Injector (Kamikazex2, Jazzx2, Nitro) 1500

Total Armor 6+8+4/2+2+1+1+1(dermal plates)=23B 2+6/2+7+1+1+1+1+1+1(dermal plates)=18I
No encomberance 3+8+4+2+1+1=19<bodx2 and 1+6+7+1+1+1+1+1=19<bodx2

2000 for other equipment
8 karma for contact(s) (Or more equipment)

Plenty of things that can be changed around for this character, but allow me a moment to talk about what he is good at. That being unarmed melee combat. His dice pool for attacking is going to be 13, and he will have a reach of 2, which could put him up to 15. If he sweeps someone, he gets to deal full damage with that sweep, in addition he can use a finishing move on them once they are on the ground. He can make his damage physical instead of stun for a -2 DP. For extra fun he can fight invisible enemies, break weapons, and doesn't mind getting knocked to the ground.

For damage he does 12S (str 10/2 +7 from martial arts). He has 23/18 armor, all of which is legal, and doesn't encumber him, and a 10 bod on top of that to resist damage with, meaning he can buy 7-8 hits.

Only potental trouble he would technically have is the drugs in his injector, but no one is generally going to check his injector for what exactly is in it.

He can run, jump, swim, see stuff, use heavy weapons and explosives, heal his allies, survive on his own, and sneak close to enemies. Quite a deadly combination I think. Would be very easy to take out skills like survival and demolitions and replace them with others or get him more equipment/contacts.

Additionally you could potentially retool him as an elf, and drop some armor. Making him a little easier to kill and dealing a bit less damage, but in return being more accurate (with higher agi).

All in all, I think he would be a true threat in combat, and would honestly scare me as a starting character.

Edit: Before anyone says it I know that boxing likely shouldn't stack with the kick manuver, but I figure it is about knowing weak spots and controlling your body and such as it is directly about throwing a punch. Take it out, lower his DV by 1, and give him something else handy if you/your GM would be hung up on this point.

[Muspellsheimr]

Yeah, totally forgot about trodes letting you run cold VR.

I run Hot with my trodes.


Are unaugmented mundanes viable? Depends on the game. In some cases, yes, they can get away with it, & even be a benefit. In other games, particularly higher-powered ones, they are at minimum severely outclassed.

[Platinum Dragon]

Are we forgetting about trodes?
Hackers are actually more viable than combat characters because hackers can get extra IPs without magic/resonance/ware...

Yeah, you don't need cybergear to go into VR. A mundane rigger would actually be pretty scary.

[Coldan]

Trodes + SimSense Modul modificated for Hot-Sim gives you also all advantages of Hot VR.

I'm playing an unargumented hacker and it's really nice. Ok, not as good as an argumented hacker, but very close and my GM is happy, as I'm not able to hack every node in the sprawl. Ok, I can only get 14 dices and only 4 Ini Passes and not 16 dices and 5 Ini Passes, but who cares?

[Cain]

Yeah, you don't need cybergear to go into VR. A mundane rigger would actually be pretty scary.

An unagumented rigger wouldn't be nearly as effective. The Control rig is actually pretty powerful. A pure drone rigger might be all right, so long as he never planned on jumping into a drone. You're right that a decker might be all right as an unaugmented mundane, but not a rigger.

[Tarantula]

I'm surprised there was no decker/rigger types up there. They're probably the most balanced for useful while still remaining mundane.

[Cardul]

What about an explosive expert type character? They do not need cyberware, just stuff that goes boom, and skills to handle it. Give them some ranged weapons skills, and Contact Lens Smartlink, and they are good to go.

Snipers, as well, since almost everything they need can be built into the scope, or into their gear.

[Glyph]

Here's a combat decker from me. Decent at hacking, and relatively good in combat for a support character. His high Edge will help him with both roles.

[ Spoiler ]

Combat Decker
Race: Ork

BREAKDOWN (400 Points)
Core Attributes: 160
Special Attributes: 40
Race: 20
Active Skills: 164
Qualities: +25
Contacts: 11
Resources: 30

=Attributes=
Body: 4
Agility: 4
Reaction: 4
Strength: 3
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 4
Logic: 4
Willpower: 3
Edge: 5

Essence: 6.00

=Qualities=
Allergy - Silver (Uncommon), Moderate
Codeslinger
Nano-Intolerance
Sensitive System
Weak Immune System

=Active Skills=
Cracking Skill Group: 4
Electronics Skill Group: 4
Gymnastics: 3
Infiltration: 2
Influence Skill Group: 1
Monofilament Whip: 6
Perception: 3
Pistols/Semi-Automatics: 4/+2

=Knowledge Skills=
24 points of Appropriate Knowledge Skills

=Contacts=
Fixer (3 Connection/2 Loyalty)
Spider (2 Connection/1 Loyalty)
Street Doc (2 Connection/1 Loyalty)

=Lifestyle and Gear=
Sony Emperor Commlink (upgraded - Response: 5, Signal: 5), Custom OS (System: 6, Firewall: 6) with Modification for BTL/Hot Sim, Satelite Link, Skinlink, Trodes, Subvocal Mic, and Biometric Reader.

Programs: All (7 Common Use and 15 Hacking) at Rating: 6

**NOTE**
Until you get your Response upgraded to 6, your System and Programs will run at an effective rating of 5. But getting everything else at Rating: 6 from the start means that you only need to upgrade your Response later, instead of having to upgrade everything else, too.

This costs 107,000 Nuyen, leaving you with 43,000 Nuyen to spend on everything else (lifestyles, fake ID, armor, guns, etc.).

[Jaid]

An unagumented rigger wouldn't be nearly as effective. The Control rig is actually pretty powerful. A pure drone rigger might be all right, so long as he never planned on jumping into a drone. You're right that a decker might be all right as an unaugmented mundane, but not a rigger.

i'll agree that an unaugmented rigger is not as effective as an augmented rigger, but i'm going to have to disagree that it isn't viable. the +2 to all vehicle tests is nice, but you can still get a very respectable dicepool in hot VR. if nothing else, codeslinger(control device) can make up for the control rig, and let's not forget the most ridiculous vehicle skill specialisation ever, "remote operation" (no joke, you can actually specialise in remote operation for several vehicle types, [edit] and the only reason it isn't all is because of exotic vehicles [/edit] and if using a command program to remote control vehicles doesn't count as remote operation, i can't imagine what does). even if you rig (depending on if your GM interprets the rules for control rigs to mean it just gives a bonus to rigging, or that it actually allows you to rig in the first place and then also gives you a bonus to rigging) you can be a reasonably strong rigger. just not quite as awesome as the fully-augmented rigger, is all.

[Cain]

i'll agree that an unaugmented rigger is not as effective as an augmented rigger, but i'm going to have to disagree that it isn't viable. the +2 to all vehicle tests is nice, but you can still get a very respectable dicepool in hot VR. if nothing else, codeslinger(control device) can make up for the control rig, and let's not forget the most ridiculous vehicle skill specialisation ever, "remote operation" (no joke, you can actually specialise in remote operation for several vehicle types, [edit] and the only reason it isn't all is because of exotic vehicles [/edit] and if using a command program to remote control vehicles doesn't count as remote operation, i can't imagine what does). even if you rig (depending on if your GM interprets the rules for control rigs to mean it just gives a bonus to rigging, or that it actually allows you to rig in the first place and then also gives you a bonus to rigging) you can be a reasonably strong rigger. just not quite as awesome as the fully-augmented rigger, is all.

"Viable" and "effective" are two different things. Certainly, though, you can create a rigger with a respectable dice pool without augmentation; but that control rig bonus is certainly nice, considering that it would come on top of everything else you mentioned. I'd put the uncybered rigger at reasonably strong as well; but I'd say he's considerably less awesome than the fully-augmented rigger.

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, totally forgot about trodes letting you run cold VR.

Anyway, my entry for unmodified combat monster mundane, enjoy.

*snip*

Nice looking, and definitely big...but a problem. You are still only allowed to max 1 attribute under karmagen. You've actually...managed to go over his allowed Karma for Attributes(375+80=455.) That's a first time I've seen that happen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

He's got maxes in...a lot of them. On the bright side, knocking Str to 9 won't do anything to his DV(and free up Karma), knocking Reaction to 5(still good), Will to 5(loses one die to roll but no damage track), 1 from Agility(he rolls less for combat, but he can make up for it with his toughness). I might leave the Body on him since his concept seems more tank-like. Special attributes aren't counted toward the ''max-maximum'', so you could still leave Edge at 6(but it is, as far as I know, counted toward the attribute max in Karmagen, as in 1/2 Karma+twice the Racial Cost BP.) You spent 510 Karma on the guy here, so it's 55 extra...but that will be fixed after you drop all the other maxes by 1 except for the one.

He will have a bunch of Karma left-which you could use to up his Charisma and his Logic, making his Demolitions a damn sight better.

In my house rules, you'd only be allowed to stack 2 of those Martial Arts DVs(I know other folks use that too-while we run a loose and easy game with many rules...for some reason I just wanted to cap this particular thing), BUT this is a forum thing and that rule isn't on the table, so I can let that slide. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Even under our table's house rules, though, he'd still hit for a sweet 7S(8 with Hardliners and he could do physical if he wanted), so he'd certainly be no slouch still.

I hope you don't think I'm taking the piss out of you because I LIKE the concept alot, just had to point out some number problems with him. But again, on the bright side, you will have close to a hundred Karma freed up for him to make other improvements, making him, really, even better.

Next up, Glyph's Ork Combat Decker:

That's quite impressive, too. I like to see how we have some Karmagen and some BP natural samples.

Good stat spread, nice skill spread, everything is covered, and in combat or the matrix he is no joke. Overall, can't say anything bad about him. With 10(+2 reach) dice with a Mono Whip and 10(12 linked) with Pistols, he's got things covered in the meat world, and with trodes he can run in the wireless world just fine.

Mr Lucky I know all about. He certainly works under this concept.

A mundane Pornomancer. Yeah, really, even with 25+ dice, they seem balanced compared to the non mundane builds. But it's still impressive to see a mundane able to get that high. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I actually have a Sniper in the making, with the Sniper being mentioned. I'll be back with them in a bit after I type them up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

the one thing that i cvan see being the big advantage for unaugmented characters is, that they are really the ultimate swiss army tool . . the spent no essence on anything, they spent money only on external stuff that they can switch out on a basis of some hours or days, if they are rounded out skills and attribute-wise, there's nothing aside from magic a mundane can not do . . AND if you wanna you can STILL specialize him in game and get him some internal goodies too . .

[Karaden]

Ah, well first off it never says under karma gen anything about only being able to max out a single attribute.

As for the edge thing, that was compleatly misreading the 'characters start out with 6 essence' as 'characters start out with 6 edge' which I thought was really weird but I reread it like 6 times and it kept coming up edge (Was very late)

Ok, wow, it really was late, I missed the only 1 maxed attribute completely. So yeah, drop everything except body and you free up a ton of karma, drop edge (Because I didn't pay points for it) or raise it with the freed up karma. If your limiting the number of styles that stack, boxing and kickboxing both allow for +2 DV which gives you +4 overall. You'd have to cut out some of his manuvers, but still very doable. Reason I didn't give him the gloves is because he uses the kick manuver most of the time, which wouldn't stack. Could keep them around for when he is just punching though, but the overall idea of this character was that he could go anywhere without risking run-ins with security. You know, beyond him being a troll.

[Fortune]

Reason I didn't give him the gloves is because he uses the kick manuver most of the time, which wouldn't stack.

I see no reason why you couldn't give him steel (or whatever) shanked boots which grant the same effect as Hardliners.

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, we use steel-shanked boots like that, same price. The elf I made has 'em. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh, as for style stacking, it's just a personal houserule that you can't stack more than +2 DV. Not really styles that stack; if you want to, say, stack Boxing DV+1 and Karate DV+1 you can; but no more than +2 DV. (I actually got the houserule from here...I forget who suggested it.)

I MIGHT even open it up a bit, and try ruling that you CAN stack more than +2...but not at chargen. You'd have to find a master or someone to teach you the little nuances of hit-focusing and knowing where to hit, and then when you pick up another level of a style(say you have kickboxing +2, and you find an old champion boxer that teaches you how to punch better or something, and you pay the karma to get Boxing at level 1. Then you could get an extra DV.)

Again, those are just my table rules, but you don't have to follow my houserules for this exercise. By RAW, you can stack DV until you run out of DV to stack, so your guy is perfectly legit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) While no one at our table abused it, something just didn't sit right with me with it, that's all. If you do follow them, though-you could still take that pile of martial arts and all the manuevers; you'd just have to pick different bonuses(say, +2 DV from boxing, +1 Block from Karate, +1 Knockdown from Tae Kwan Do.) I don't limit the amount of styles someone can know(if someone wants to take 35 BP worth of martial arts, they can), just the DV bonus that can stack.

But it's a good character, and definitely good for being a heavy-hitter when you need to also be legal.