Stat Fastjack!, Exactly how good *is* legendary? Options

[Cain]

Based off a comment in the Otaku thread: People seem to think that an infinite amount of karma will make one into a matrix godling. But, in addition to the fact that an infinite amount of karma isn't going to happen, the normal deckers are going to be improving as well.

So, here's the question. If you were designing Fastjack as a 400 BP character, who then added an unlimited amount of karma onto him, how much karma would it take to max him out? And would that karma be enough to make an otaku better than he is?

Inquiring minds want to know....

[ElFenrir]

This one's tough. Fastjack is a human...but he is, indeed, legendary when it comes to computers, electronics, the Matrix, etc. I would need a lot of time with this. It's harder, than say, Harlequin(where he'd have maxed out every single attribute, physical and mental, Magic with a metric fuckload of initation, and most of the skills in the book.) I statted out Harlequin, but there was no challenge at all in it since it was just ''max everything and then some.''

I'd like to see Fastjack statted out.

[MJBurrage]

Fastjack has been used for examples in previous core books:

SR1 (2050), page 113:

• Persona: MPCP 6, Bod 5, Evasion 7, Hardening 2, and Response +1
• Programs: Attack 6
• Attributes: Reaction 7 (the average of Quickness and Intelligence round down)
• Skills: Computer 6 (so effective Decking skill 8 and Hacking Pool 15 due to deck Response)
• There is also a picture of him on the page.

SR3 (2060), page 92:

• Skills: Electronics (B/R) 7

[Fortune]

In my opinion, a wide spread of Knowledge Skills would not be amiss, and would eat up a fair amount of Karma.

[knasser]

Slight tangent, but in response to ElFenrir, I also statted up Harlequin. I kept him more or less in the normal rules with the exception of allowing two Exceptional Attribute qualities and he didn't have maxed out everything. Stats like Strength and Body were good but nothing inhuman and he had a number of skills that were good but not excessive such as the modern skills like Computers and Automotive Mechanics which represented things he was still having fun learning. He was still lethally powerful once you added his Magic, quickened spells, knowledge skills and resources / contacts etc., but I made him believable. The stats are floating around here somewhere in my archive that some people link to. He also appears in the Carnival adventure by me on Aaron's page.

As to Fastjack, regardless of how good you make him, I think it's sad that he will never be able to be as in tune with the Matrix as some kid who happened to have a node go down on her whilst she was logged in. Mechanically, a TM will always be able to be better than FastJack in a chosen area. To make Fastjack good, I would do so in a similar way to Harlequin, not so much about raw power (though he'd have everything going for him), but about excellent contacts, knowledge, resources and experience in every trick out there. Shadowrun is more about strategy and tactics than the weapons at your disposal. I think a player would be lucky if they ever found out that the person they'd been dealing with was Fastjack. Was it ever stated cannon what his standard persona even was?

[ElFenrir]

Hmm, Ill check around for them. I mean, his stats weren't all 9s or anything, but I did have at least 5-6 on all the physical(someone that old and that powerful and that cocky would no doubt make himself better than a typical human), and mental/magical were maxed with the stuff you said, and yeah, tons of resources, contacts, metamagics, etc. Actually, they were all quite believable stats.

I didn't max all of those technical skills either, but all the magical/combat/athletics/etiquette and the like were pretty much juiced up. Then again, someone thousands of years old with 6's in everything is perfectly believable. Someone thousands of years old with 7s in every skill and max +1s in every attribute is believable, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen runners now with close to that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I didn't do it, but it's indeed believable. I guess it depends how you look at it. Our Harlequins probably don't look too much different, nor do they probably look different to others who statted him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



As for Fastjack's persona, I've read two-one is a humanoid shape that vibrated so fast it blurred if I recall, and one was a very, very realistic looking but average looking dude with short, brown hair. As for what Fastjack looks like? Who knows.

He'd have contacts out the wazoo, though. I mean, I'd be willing to say if Fastjack wants to know something, roll dice until it happened.

[knasser]

Heh! Actually, it seemed to enrage some people that I'd actually statted out Harlequin, so I don't there are many other versions floating around. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I like the blurring humanoid, that's excellent. But as to what he really looks like, well we all know that, since Fastjack is actually Damian Knight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Dashifen]

To make him truly legendary, he'd have a high con, leadership, and etiquette skills. Con so that he can start the appropriate rumors about his legenadary-ness and leadership to persuade those who don't buy the rumors that they're true and etiquette to appear appropriately humble as necessary.

[ludomastro]

Personally, I don't bother with stats for a legendary character. I just handwave that he succeeds unless the story says he doesn't. It's kind of like travel times and dragons. In a game this granular, I've found that intuition (the feeling, not the stat) goes a lot further than people realize.

[Cain]

As to Fastjack, regardless of how good you make him, I think it's sad that he will never be able to be as in tune with the Matrix as some kid who happened to have a node go down on her whilst she was logged in. Mechanically, a TM will always be able to be better than FastJack in a chosen area.

That's exactly what I want to prove (or disprove) here. Will the otaku ever really be able to beat Fastjack? Once we've statted him up, what happens if we take the exact same amount of karma, and feed it into a baseline otaaku? Will the be better, about the same, or worse?

I'm thinking "worse". Even with Threading and Sprites, the otaku has to raise a bundle more skills than Fastjack does. He's also not going to be able to get better programs for free, which Fastjack can easily do. But most of all, he'll have to raise his attributes to improve, which is expensive.

But that's just my guess. I don't know for sure, which is why I posted this challenge. Let's see what we can all come up with.

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, when it comes to statting legendaries for fun, I'm all for it.

In-game? Oh hell no. I say they succeed unless, yeah, it says they fail. As the old addage goes, ''if it has stats, they can kill it.'' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[the_real_elwood]

Well, I don't know about hard stats, but at least in the settings fluff, FastJack doesn't have much of a problem dealing with a good number of Pax's Otaku. You might not be able to build him completely using the RAW, but I think it'd be safe to say that his cyberdeck has been customized enough to make him competitive with anyone else out there running the Matrix.

[Mickle5125]

max the skills, max the logic... leave him human. The programs, on the other hand... anyone else running around with rating 99 stealth programs? ^_~

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Isn't Fastjack the one who's alluded to be completely unaugmented by cyber or bioware save for a datajack or two?

[Cain]

Isn't Fastjack the one who's alluded to be completely unaugmented by cyber or bioware save for a datajack or two?

Actually, there's nothing suggesting that at all. We have no idea how augmented he might be. So, feel free to load up! For the purposes of this exercise, we can assume he has access to deltaware.

[Whipstitch]

Don't forget about the Home Ground Quality. Lord knows he probably qualifies for a sickening number of major datahavens and public networks.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Actually, there's nothing suggesting that at all. We have no idea how augmented he might be. So, feel free to load up! For the purposes of this exercise, we can assume he has access to deltaware.

Nope, nothing by RAW, but I though Ancient History had hinted at that in a different thread.

[darthmord]

You know... he could be an AI that has been around forever.

How can I say that? Do you know beyond doubt that his picture is really his?

Now granted, he does talk about having a kid but adoptive parents say the same about their adopted children despite them not having any genetic relation.

It could certainly explain some of his legendary abilities and how he could deal with Otaku so easily.

[Ravor]

Unless we are thinking about two different threads what Ancient History said is that someone on Jackpoint is an uncybered mundane, but he didn't go into details.

[sunnyside]

In game terms he'd max on Karma pretty quick in skills relevant to hacking.

Being a legendary coder might give him access to rating 7 programs though. Still though. Only a few more dice in the pools than a new 400BP matrix specialist character.

However a lot of what makes someone legendary is the knowledge to properly use those skills. He'd have to patience to do legwork and find out about a node. Know where to look to try and find some info on the security ICE to give him an edge. Stuff like that.

[Ravor]

Also something to remembe is that it is allot easier to be "legendary" using Fourth Edition's skill caps if your "average" Runner also remembers that a professional level dicepool is only 6-8 before equipment so Fastjack's 12-14 starts looking more impressive.

[CanRay]

"If you stat it, they can kill it." is an old phrase.

FastJack is Unstatable, as he's unfindable, unkillable, and so on. Death himself has had FastJack removed from the "List Of The Dead". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

But, as for how much Karma he has, think about this. He started Hacking at, what, his Teen Years? He's 70 now? That's over 50-Years of Karma gathering and spending.

Finally, I think there's been hints to FastJack having a Math Co-Processor somewheres, as well as his Datajacks.

[Fortune]

You know... he could be an AI that has been around forever.

Fastjack makes a personal appearance in one of the examples in the first edition Shadowrun rulebook. He was repairing something (telecom?) for Sally Tsung, IIRC.

[the_real_elwood]

"If you stat it, they can kill it." is an old phrase.

FastJack is Unstatable, as he's unfindable, unkillable, and so on. Death himself has had FastJack removed from the "List Of The Dead". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

But, as for how much Karma he has, think about this. He started Hacking at, what, his Teen Years? He's 70 now? That's over 50-Years of Karma gathering and spending.

Finally, I think there's been hints to FastJack having a Math Co-Processor somewheres, as well as his Datajacks.

If you view FastJack as nothing more than a plot device, then sure he's unkillable, because the GM needs him to move the campaign forward. But if you actually expect him to be able to interact with the world, then he needs some kind of stats. FastJack is powerful (in the Matrix), and has serious connections he can call in if he needs firepower. But there are similarly powerful people who are probably interested in seeing FastJack dead. Nothing's unkillable if you try hard enough.

[TheOOB]

If the big D can be killed, so can fast jack.

His stats would likely be quite insane though. In addition to having every stat/skill relevant to hacking/networking maxed(as well as high numbers in other skills he'd find useful) her would have just about every quality that is a benefit to him that could theoretically be gained through play and equiptment and programs that is beyond SOTA. He can probally get rating 7 for any program and commlink he wants, and likely has a select few at rating 8 or higher.