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> Effective Tactics, What to do and NOT do
Phaeton
post Dec 26 2003, 02:07 AM
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I saw the discussion on the Dealing With Low Body thread, and so I decided to make this.

I don't really know what to say, so I'll let you all start. 8)

P.S.: Sorry for being unable to think of anything to say... :D :dead:
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Munchkinslayer
post Dec 26 2003, 02:11 AM
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You mean "don't die for your country. Make your enemie die for his"? Or do you want Chalemagne tactics and Sun Tzu quotes?
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Phaeton
post Dec 26 2003, 02:28 AM
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QUOTE (Munchkinslayer)
You mean "don't die for your country. Make your enemie die for his"? Or do you want Chalemagne tactics and Sun Tzu quotes?

...Err, I was generally hoping for practical discussion on what is a good idea and what is a bad idea for a Shadowrunning team in the middle of a fight...But either of those two things will work as well.

*confused. eh. aw well.* :D
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Phaeton
post Dec 26 2003, 02:33 AM
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Well, I had some interesting ideas for my sam/bike rigger. :D

Fun with grapple guns mounted on hardpoints:

1. Attach yourself to people's rear bumpers. Basically "skitch".
2. Grab pedestrians (or targets) and drive around slamming them into stuff.
3. Use monowire instead of grapple line and lariat them.

THOSE are what I call tactics. :D

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FlakJacket
post Dec 26 2003, 02:57 AM
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Pretty much my stock answer for whenever this question comes up - hey if it works, why change it? - so I'll point you to these two articles, Small Unit Tactics Part 1 and Small Unit Tactics Part 2 since they have some good ideas and cover the basics. Enjoy. :)
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Phaeton
post Dec 26 2003, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (FlakJacket)
Pretty much my stock answer for whenever this question comes up - hey if it works, why change it? - so I'll point you to these two articles, Small Unit Tactics Part 1 and Small Unit Tactics Part 2 since they have some good ideas and cover the basics. Enjoy. :)

AH! Much thanks, probably more than I can convey! :D
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toturi
post Dec 26 2003, 03:47 AM
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QUOTE (FlakJacket)
Pretty much my stock answer for whenever this question comes up - hey if it works, why change it? - so I'll point you to these two articles, Small Unit Tactics Part 1 and Small Unit Tactics Part 2 since they have some good ideas and cover the basics. Enjoy. :)

I'll tell you what's wrong with the 1st article. Most of my firefights last less than 2 Combat Rounds, usually no more than 3 initiative passes.

The article assumes that the goons have more intel than the runners. He broke a rule of combat: Thou shalt NEVER assume. Assuming that you as security manager knows all about the runners which is not true, the GM knows, but the security manager isn't neccesarily the GM(he's usually the AGM in my games).
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mfb
post Dec 26 2003, 04:19 AM
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here's a nugget of wisdom. if you're covered by invisibility, and your teammates are getting chewed up by the opposition, fire your goddamn gun at something.
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Munchkinslayer
post Dec 26 2003, 05:25 AM
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QUOTE (toturi)
The article assumes that the goons have more intel than the runners. He broke a rule of combat: Thou shalt NEVER assume.

ALWAYS assume the badguys have all the intel they need. Underestimating the enemy falls under the heading of "things I will not do today."
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toturi
post Dec 26 2003, 06:15 AM
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Over-estimating my enemy means I won't go on a run today.

Death on the run or death by starvation. Your choice, omae.
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Squire
post Dec 26 2003, 06:25 AM
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It's pathetics that it has to even be brought up, but so many people just don't get it.

If you're not being paid to make a mess, don't make one.

The less signs of your passage you leave, the less the follow-up investigators have to go on. The fewer bodies you leave in your wake, the less public attention you draw, the less property you damage all mean less motivation for your victims to come after you.

Dead men do tell tales, it's called forensic science.
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Cain
post Dec 26 2003, 06:30 AM
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Good idea: Hiding behind cover.
Bad idea: Using fuel cans as cover.

Good idea: Reading the CLUE files.
Bad idea: Being in a CLUE file.

Good idea: Using the troll as a bullet shield.
Bad idea: Using the otaku as a bullet shield.

Good idea: Throwing grenades.
Bad idea: Throwing the pin.
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Tiralee
post Dec 26 2003, 06:31 AM
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Had a recent blast with the whole "Toy and gismo" department.

Get a decent SMG, HK series for preference.
Attach a grapple gun (Under).
Re-inact batman.

Or in the "Ouch, nasty" scheme of things -

Give modified gun to Troll. Use troll to open doors from 100 m away.
Then watch as the people behind the door realise that the modified gun is actually a grenade launcher.
Invoke "chunky salsa effect" and wade through after.

But that's becasue I'm a "Bastard DM" TM.


L;
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toturi
post Dec 26 2003, 06:38 AM
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QUOTE (Squire)
Dead men do tell tales, it's called forensic science.

That's why you get Forensics skill of your own. To teach dead men to lie. :)
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Frag-o Delux
post Dec 26 2003, 06:52 AM
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Tactical Edge. If you can get your hands on this book it can change the way runs are forever ran in your game. My brother had an oppurtunity to acquire this and many of the other training manules the local law enforcement officers use for training.

This book covers everything the officer does from the second he gets the call to when he aprehneds a perp, to if the need swat is needed.

In another volume they cover SWAT tactics.

In the first book it also covers negotiations, which is a real eye opener to any one who thinks they one day get caught up in a situation like that.

It even shows the ways many perps have tried to take up police, so they know how to look for the attempts. Like when an officer has the perp with his hands on the hood of the car and the perp has hi legs spread out bacwards, the officer would stradle one of the perps legs and begin to frisk him. The perp would purposely outstrentch himself as far as he could so when the officer would frisk him, the perp could drop prone wrap his legs around one of the officers legs and roll over throwing the officer to the ground were the perp could then get on top of the police officer.

Also most people don't know that (a cop friend showe this to me) a police officers gun is held in a special holster, that if the person trying to pull the gun is not in the right angel the gun will not come out. SUre the gun will eventually come out with enough wrestling but it will be a lot harder then just yanking out of a cops holster, so I would not try that option as a runner if you want to take a cops gun.

And a little piece of advice I learned back in my youthful days, A cop is only doing his job, it is your ass that is on the line. Meaning if you are in suffiecent enough trouble that running is the only option do as much crazy stuff as you feel you can get away with. I have done some amazingly stupid stuff to avoid being caught, that no cop in his right mind would do just to catch some stupid kids that he will probably catch another day.

Oh and in a bad situation that involves you driving, if shots are fired or you feel you are about to fired upon remember this, Shut up and duck, let the parked cars guide your way. A good piece of advice that came in handy on a few occasions.

And grandma's house makes a great alibia if you have a drunk uncle who hates the "man" living in her basement.
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Phaeton
post Dec 26 2003, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (Cain)
Good idea: Hiding behind cover.
Bad idea: Using fuel cans as cover.

Good idea: Reading the CLUE files.
Bad idea: Being in a CLUE file.

Good idea: Using the troll as a bullet shield.
Bad idea: Using the otaku as a bullet shield.

Good idea: Throwing grenades.
Bad idea: Throwing the pin.

*just finished reading the CLUE files*

:rotfl:!!!!!!!!1111111oneoen
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Siege
post Dec 26 2003, 03:05 PM
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Weapon retention holsters. Nifty things.

If you want to get a better feel for how you're kitting out your runner, surf military/police supply stores online.

I still love the thigh-medical kit rig.

-Siege
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Munchkinslayer
post Dec 26 2003, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (Frag-o Delux)
Tactical Edge. If you can get your hands on this book it can change the way runs are forever ran in your game.

Amazon's got it for $38.00. "Out of print. Limited availability." They've got some others that look good too. They came up when I searched for "Tactical Edge."
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Diesel
post Dec 26 2003, 06:03 PM
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If anyone is interested, there are plenty of Army Field Manuals covering things like effective weapons tactics, room clearing scenarios, and urban combat at a squad level. They're pretty good for this sort of thing. Give me an hour, they'll be up.
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Diesel
post Dec 26 2003, 06:14 PM
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MOUT (Urban Combat) - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m/90-10/toc.htm
More MOUT (better one, IMO) - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...0-1/default.htm
Riot tactics - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m/19-15/toc.htm
Camo, if you want to get all hardcore - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...fm/20-3/toc.htm
Soldier Skills - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m/21-75/toc.htm

That's all for now folks, there are a lot more at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...policy/army/fm/
.

Enjoy!
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Diesel
post Dec 26 2003, 06:18 PM
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MOUT (Urban Combat) - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m/90-10/toc.htm
More MOUT (better one, IMO) - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...0-1/default.htm
Riot tactics - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m/19-15/toc.htm
Camo, if you want to get all hardcore - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...fm/20-3/toc.htm
Soldier Skills - http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m/21-75/toc.htm

That's all for now folks, there are a lot more at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...policy/army/fm/
.

Enjoy!
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Diesel
post Dec 28 2003, 07:22 AM
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Wow I killed this one!
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Phaeton
post Dec 28 2003, 08:05 AM
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Nah. Thanks to my lack of how to make a good post, it was a short-lived thread to begin with.
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Siege
post Dec 28 2003, 11:12 AM
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We could start discussing the tactical blunders of tLotR. :grinbig:

-Siege
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Sigfried McWild
post Dec 28 2003, 04:17 PM
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of course all this is only useful as long as both players and gms use it.

If it's only the gm the campaign will involve a lot of short lived characters.
If it's only the players there will be tons of crying gms asking for help in dealing with "munchkins".

More interesting than the actual real life tactics, would be how do you adapt them to SR rules . Also how useful are things like granades, delaied action , suppressive fire etc. in game?
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