A Question of Memory, another frikkin commlink question Options

[WiredWeasel]

I got a question regarding commlinks and their usage, why not...everyone else does, right?

Okay, and keep in mind, I'm still fairly a newb trying to get an understanding of all this. Wasabi mentioned in what I will refer to as the Flametastic thread, for simplification, The unlimited storage in SR4 and IC not fragging one's commlink because it's actually fragging a network. Maybe I read that wrong, Wasabi, if so, sorry bout that.
I'm confused. So, Commlinks don't have memory or storage limitations? Thought they did...gotta store the paydata somewhere, right?
Also if the IC doesn't frag your commlink, what exactly happens when you're targeted? BlackIC, is obvious, physical damage. And VR? We all now how much dumpshock can mess up a hacker/decker's day. (Yes I still like calling them deckers, hacker seems too mundane and "real present day" Decker makes 'em sound special) But what if you're hacking from AR and get IC'd? Nothing happen? You just shrug and say "Well crap...guess I gotta try again" That seems rather...anticlimactic...

So in summation, questions are:
Do commlinks really have unlimited memory, and how's that work?
And what happens when you get IC'd?

Direct answers or general guidance to where to find it myself greatly appreciated.

[Tarantula]

Unlimited memory? No, but basically, its assumed that you have enough storage for whatever you need.
2) ICed? Depends. If they use an attack program (regular IC) then it causes damage to your matrix icon, and if it crashes it, your commlink needs to reboot.
If they're using blackhammer or blackout then if you are in AR, it does nothing, if you are in VR, cold sim, they both do stun damage to you and jams the connection open. (There is a test for you to disconnect anyway). If you are in hot sim, then the one does physical damage, whilet he other still does stun, and they both jam the connection open again.

[DireRadiant]

The Matrix has unlimited memory. As long as you can get to the Matrix, no worries. And as long as someone isn't trying to store the entire Matrix on their commlink, there's really no reason to limit storage. The commlinks limit is how much software it can run.

Yep, lose a cybercombat in AR, boot up reload and go again.

[PhishStyx]

Essentially, all memory issues are wiped away in SR4 by a healthy dose of Handwavium^tm to be taken internally for best results. When people start talking about having AI's secretly hiding in people's cyberware and guns, I figure we're pretty much beyond the point of talking about realistic computing (even for 2070).

[WiredWeasel]

Cool. Thanks.
I also saw it mentioned that technomancers have no storage, for obvious reasons. Now I know they mention how to handle that, at least I hope they did, but I'm not in front of the book and I'm kinda fuzzy on that one. So what does a techno do with the paydata? Send everything down to a commlink or some other device, or make sure they've got photographic memory and total recall?
And if you're a cocky techno who doesn't carry a commlink, what else can you store it on?

[DWC]

Everything has memory. You can store it in your sneakers, or your color changing jacket, or your flare compensating sunglasses, or your adjustable jogging/wonderbra. With unlimited wireless bandwidth, where you put things only matters when your wireless connection is cut off.

[hobgoblin]

the classical statement is that even underwear has enough storage to handle the library of congress a couple of times over...

question is, what years library of congress (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Whipstitch]

You can always keep a couple of datachips too, if you want. They're basically 2070 optical drives, except they're the size of a current day flash drive. Very handy if you want to keep data offline and in your pocket, plus you can basically handwave their storage capacity, since the book says they're capable of carrying "hundreds of gigapulses worth of data", whatever that means.

[Fortune]

You can always keep a couple of datachips too, if you want. They're basically 2070 optical drives, except they're the size of a current day flash drive. Very handy if you want to keep data offline and in your pocket, plus you can basically handwave their storage capacity, since the book says they're capable of carrying "hundreds of gigapulses worth of data", whatever that means.

"hundreds of gigapulses worth of data" = "more than enough for most purposes" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Wasabi]

The phrase I used was "Effectively unlimited". No worries, though... see the sidebar on "Storage Memory" on BBB, p212 for the exact wording. As the posters above said its a dose of Handwavium and I say good riddance to the previous editions style of quantifying memory storage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As to what does IC do it uses programs. If loaded with the Attack/Blackout/Blackhammer programs the IC/Agent/Hacker targets an Icon. Other programs do other things. Check out the Disarm program and the Sprite powers Gremlins and Stability to see how the node itself can be affected by programs.

The node itself contains the icons in 4th ed but is not itself an icon. The easiest way to remember this is that devices and nodes do not have damage tracks.

[Tarantula]

As to what does IC do it uses programs. If loaded with the Attack/Blackout/Blackhammer programs the IC/Agent/Hacker causes damage to an Icon.

Attack and databomb directly attack icons damage tracks. Blackout/Blackhammer attack the hacker directly, not his icon.

[Wasabi]

Attack and databomb directly attack icons damage tracks. Blackout/Blackhammer attack the hacker directly, not his icon.

Wording changed to 'targets...'

[GreyBrother]

AR doesn't make you immune to Blackout and Black Hammer.

It's how you access AR and VR. If you access AR via Image Link Googles and give it orders per keyboard or AR Gloves, you are perfectly safe.
But if you use trodes or a datajack, you have a connection to your brain and that's what can be fried.

[Muspellsheimr]

Blackout & Black Hammer can only affect Hot & Cold SIM users. If you are using Augmented Reality, regardless of how you obtain it, the IC cannot do shit to you. Likewise, such programs are unable to affect icons or other programs, so they are only of use against SIM users.

[Whipstitch]

Basically, a SIM user's brain is subject to a far wider range of feedback than an AR user. Biofeedback filters are essentially unnecessary in AR because AR is purposely too limited to translate most biofeedback by its very nature. You can lethally modify the emotive tracks being sent to the user all you want, but if the guy's in AR he won't be accessing them and thus won't be harmed.

[TheOOB]

Basically, when you are using AR your mind is in the real world and can still tell the difference between what is real and what is virtual, thus any biofeedback that does manage to get through your mind will simply ignore.

While in VR your mind doesn't quite know what is real and what is not, so it just can't ignore the biofeedback.

[GreyBrother]

Thingie is, when you use trodes, you use SimSinn to overlay your sight directly with Arrows and Stuff. Therefore: You use trodes/datajack with SimSinn = Hurtable by Blackout.

It's not a question of AR or VR, more one of SimSinn or No SimSinn.

[Tarantula]

Thingie is, when you use trodes, you use SimSinn to overlay your sight directly with Arrows and Stuff. Therefore: You use trodes/datajack with SimSinn = Hurtable by Blackout.

It's not a question of AR or VR, more one of SimSinn or No SimSinn.

Incorrect. Just because you are using simsense does not automatically make you vulnerable to blackout.

SR4, 226 "Black Hammer is intended as a weapon against hot-sim full VR hackers; against cold-sim VR users it only inflicts Stun damage. It has no effect on programs, agents, IC, or sprites, nor will it affect AR users."

[Wasabi]

Trodes and other "Direct Neural Interfaces" allow telepathic control of devices but this control does not require being in any kind of VR to use. In their most basic usage they just let you tell subscribed machines what to do.

[GreyBrother]

Ah, my bad. Doesn't make sense to me, but RAW's RAW.

[Tarantula]

Think of it as a volume knob. AR is like a 1 on it, you can hear/see stuff, but its not overpowering. Cold Sim is like a 10. Loud/bright enough that its almost impossible to hear/see anything else, but it won't make you deaf. Hot Sim is like a 15. Its louder and brighter than anything you could possibly normally see.


Blackout/blackhammer make you experience bad sim that hurts your brain if its loud enough. Being at 1 it can't do anything, since its so quiet your brain doesn't even notice. At a 10 (cold sim) its enough to cause headaches/make you pass out, but its unlikely to kill you (unless you overflow it into physical). At 15 (hot sim) its so loud its causing blood vessels to break and your brain to start leaking out your ears.