Arcane Arrester, What spells does it affect? Options

[AngelisStorm]

Arcane Arrester says that when affected by a spell, she treats Force based effects at half actual strength.

Pretty straightforward it seems. But then it lists examples... and they are all offensive effects. My initial assumption was (and is) that it affects every spell that is dependent on force that affects the character. Is this correct?

Second part. If the above is true, and assuming that characters with a Magic attribute can take arcane arrester, this means that, to get the same effect, a mage casting spells on himself needs to cast the spell at twice the normal force. Right?

Third. It's not a typo that characters with a magic attribute can take it. I assume?

Thanks.

[The Jopp]

The Arcane Arrester kicks in when someone casts a HARMFUL spell at the character. It could be an illusion for example.

A good rule of thumb would be if the spell demands a voluntary target.

If the character have no wish to be affected then the arrester kicks in.

As for No.2 yes. Also keep in mind that you are at a +4 to drain as well regardless of the drain value.

3. yes, magically active characters can have it.

[pbangarth]

Where is Arcane Arrester described, please?

Peter

[AngelisStorm]

Runners Companion, pg. 111.

[pbangarth]

Thanks.

Peter

[Mäx]

The Arcane Arrester kicks in when someone casts a HARMFUL spell at the character. It could be an illusion for example.

A good rule of thumb would be if the spell demands a voluntary target.

If the character have no wish to be affected then the arrester kicks in.

Characters wish have nothing to do with it, arrester kicks in every time a spell affects the character, whether the spell is harmful or helpful.

[DTFarstar]

The Jopp Why +4 drain?

Chris

[Synner]

Arcane Arrester is an innate, uncontrolled ability and affects all spells cast at/on the character.

[AngelisStorm]

Thanks Synner.

[The Jopp]

The Jopp Why +4 drain?

Chris

DOH ignore me, i was thinking Astral hazing

[The Jopp]

Arcane Arrester is an innate, uncontrolled ability and affects all spells cast at/on the character.

By RAW you are correct but since it is a positive quality it should be limited to only:

Non-Voluntary Spells
Harmful Effect Spells

A good rule of thumb is the "Magic Resistance" quality that literally states that it works against beneficial spells and that quality is incompatible with the Arcane Arrester.

[DTFarstar]

After playing with it several sessions in a row, even with you having to take SURGE III to get it, if it did not effect beneficial spells as well, then it would be overpowered. My opinion of course, and I do run a semi-magic heavy games, but our samaurai tank character has it and so far he really hasn't had a damn thing magical effect him at all. Then again he does combine it with Astral Hazing(and is never allowed within 3 meters of the mages- they tolerate him because he is really useful, but barely. So, maybe it is just the combination that makes it so insane. I don't know, just my thoughts I have been up way too long.

Chris

[The Jopp]

Well, combined they are horrible as they give two effects towards mages casting spells gainst such a character.

Casting spells into the area with background count gives a +4 to drain value AND the force of the spell is halved.

[Stahlseele]

every mage will want you dead, but as long as they stay with magical means, wanting is in effect pretty much all they CAN do ^^
finally a way to not have to rely on the pesky know it all mage to cover your shiny metal behind against magical bothers O.o

[The Jopp]

Lets take a generic spell with F/2 as drain and cast it at force 12 at sucha character.

The poor mage would have a base force of 6 that can be increased with net successes and then a drain code of 10 (And most likely physical...)

Still, the character will still hurt.

[DTFarstar]

The problem does come partly when they are combined because that makes that maximum force 4 or 2 instead of 6(I think 4, would enter background count, reduce in force then hit character and get halved. so 12-4=8/2=4) but still, with a decent mage(counterspelling 4(spec combat) + a decent willpower(4), he can reliably get it to 1 net success, and sometimes make himself immune( getting 4 hits to resist makes you immune to force 4 spells)

Chris

[The Jopp]

Actually no.

A spells force is not affected by the background count - only the difficulty in casting into such an area. The exception to this are already SUSTAINED spells that the character walks into.

You could say that the caster "force" mana into the area unlike an already sustained spell that would drop in force.

I could agree on that the mage could choose to get either effect:
1: Non-Forced spell: Drain as usual but F-4 of spell
2: Forced spell: +4 to drain.

With option 1 then you would indeed have F12-4/2= F4

[Tarantula]

Actually Jopp, it all depends on location. If the mage is in the background count... Magic 6 reduced to magic 2 by rating 4 background count. Max spell force able to be cast = force 4. (Drain is at +4 for this spell). When spell hits character, damage is halved. (Arcane arrester does not actually half force of the spell).

[Malachi]

Lets take a generic spell with F/2 as drain and cast it at force 12 at sucha character.

The poor mage would have a base force of 6 that can be increased with net successes and then a drain code of 10 (And most likely physical...)

Still, the character will still hurt.

I would like to point out that the description of Arcane Arrester states that only the target character sees the "half force" effect. So in the above example, although the effect as resisted by the target would appear to be a Force 6 spell, the Magician casting it still treats it as a Force 12 spell. This means that if the attacking Magician happens to roll exceptionally well on the Spellcasting Test they can get in excess of 6 hits to add to the spell's effect. Now, when resisted the "base" DV would start at 6 for the "adjusted" Force of the spell, but all of the casting Magicians hits would still count, even if there were more than 6.

This could cause a curious backfire on the Arcane Arrester character where (under normal circumstances) the Magician would have cast at Force 6 and had their hits capped at 6, instead they casted at Force 12 and thus were able to add more net hits, thus resulting in even more damage than they would have received if they hadn't have taken Arcane Arrester in the first place. Ironic.

[Tarantula]

I would like to point out that the description of Arcane Arrester states that only the target character sees the "half force" effect. So in the above example, although the effect as resisted by the target would appear to be a Force 6 spell, the Magician casting it still treats it as a Force 12 spell. This means that if the attacking Magician happens to roll exceptionally well on the Spellcasting Test they can get in excess of 6 hits to add to the spell's effect. Now, when resisted the "base" DV would start at 6 for the "adjusted" Force of the spell, but all of the casting Magicians hits would still count, even if there were more than 6.

This could cause a curious backfire on the Arcane Arrester character where (under normal circumstances) the Magician would have cast at Force 6 and had their hits capped at 6, instead they casted at Force 12 and thus were able to add more net hits, thus resulting in even more damage than they would have received if they hadn't have taken Arcane Arrester in the first place. Ironic.

How would the mage even know though? I don't think there is any "backfire" as there is no indicator of having arcane arrestor (other than being fomori or gnome).

So, I don't think it'll cause you to get higher force spells cast on you, because they won't know to do so.

[pbangarth]

Fizzling spells that shouldn't fizzle would be one clue. Astrally perceiving a small dead zone around the character would be another.

This would appear to be a situation in which the magician's special buddies, spirits, come in handy. The Arcane Arrester Quality would only affect the Innate Spell power of a spirit, leaving only the background count to deal with. This assumes that the background count would affect the Force of the spirit for effects projected into the area, eg. Confusion, Compulsion, etc. A tough spirit could still close for melee and Engulf, etc.

Peter

[Malachi]

How would the mage even know though? I don't think there is any "backfire" as there is no indicator of having arcane arrestor (other than being fomori or gnome).

So, I don't think it'll cause you to get higher force spells cast on you, because they won't know to do so.

Not on the first couple spells, no, but after that they might start upping the Force when they see that nothing seems to be slowing the guy down. That is, assuming they live that long. I know my PC's to do the same thing when encountering a high-powered NPC so it stands to reason that NPC's should have the same logic.

[Tarantula]

Fizzling spells that shouldn't fizzle would be one clue. Astrally perceiving a small dead zone around the character would be another.

This would appear to be a situation in which the magician's special buddies, spirits, come in handy. The Arcane Arrester Quality would only affect the Innate Spell power of a spirit, leaving only the background count to deal with. This assumes that the background count would affect the Force of the spirit for effects projected into the area, eg. Confusion, Compulsion, etc. A tough spirit could still close for melee and Engulf, etc.

That would the the background count, not the arcane arrestor.

As far as spirits being able to close... they have to be force 5+ and are reduced by 4. So a force 6 spirit, comes running up to engulf, or melee, and is now force 2. Not so great.

Not on the first couple spells, no, but after that they might start upping the Force when they see that nothing seems to be slowing the guy down. That is, assuming they live that long. I know my PC's to do the same thing when encountering a high-powered NPC so it stands to reason that NPC's should have the same logic.

Did you not notice that a full hits force 6 manabolt does 9P still? The mage would probably just think the guy got a couple of hits on his resistance test.

[hyzmarca]

I would like to point out that the description of Arcane Arrester states that only the target character sees the "half force" effect. So in the above example, although the effect as resisted by the target would appear to be a Force 6 spell, the Magician casting it still treats it as a Force 12 spell. This means that if the attacking Magician happens to roll exceptionally well on the Spellcasting Test they can get in excess of 6 hits to add to the spell's effect. Now, when resisted the "base" DV would start at 6 for the "adjusted" Force of the spell, but all of the casting Magicians hits would still count, even if there were more than 6.

They can't, actually. When the force of the spell is reduced, excess hits are discarded.

[Tarantula]

They can't, actually. When the force of the spell is reduced, excess hits are discarded.

RC, 111, "When affected by a spell (including a critter’s Innate Spells), the character—and she alone—treats Force-based effects (damage, paralysis, etc.) at half (round down) actual strength."

Spell force is not effected, but the cahracter treats force based effects at half.

From the example given, it appears this is only the base damage, as it says taht the spellcaster will still add hits to improve the effect.