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> New runners, The biggest challenge for my group in their first mission? A door.
Sceptic
post Oct 24 2008, 07:04 AM
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I ran my first 4ed session last Saturday, having finally gotten character creation mostly out of the way. Because we'd taken longer to get the characters sorted out than intended I decided to strip out the only significant complication I'd planned for their first mission.

The mission which was to steal an eyeball from a specific tank at a street docs clinic. I had intended to have an experienced and paranoid shadowrun team show up needing treatment about the time they hit the place in order to teach them caution, but due to time constraints I dropped this idea. As it was they ended up knocking out the ganger who was watching the place, shot up the door, and then waited around for quarter of an hour for another member of the gang to appear so they could ambush him and see if he had a keycard for the door.

I was nice to them and didn't have Lone Star descend upon them (mostly because I hadn't gotten my head around the drone combat stuff), but they did end up getting a couple of gangers taking up sniping positions on nearby rooftops (who's going to run headlong into automatic gunfire?) and shooting at them.

In the end they only managed to complete the simple straightforward mission because the shaman/rigger summoned a spirit to go in and press a button to open the door.

This first mission has given me a good idea of how useful hackers can be, and how utterly psychotic some of my players are.

Next session I'm planning on giving them a nice easy straightforward kidnapping. Muahahahahahahahaha!

(That and doing horrible things to the character who was wearing his own gangs colours when they hit the place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) )
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CoyoteNZ
post Oct 24 2008, 07:13 AM
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QUOTE (Sceptic @ Oct 24 2008, 08:04 PM) *
Next session I'm planning on giving them a nice easy straightforward kidnapping. Muahahahahahahahaha!

(That and doing horrible things to the character who was wearing his own gangs colours when they hit the place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) )



Don't forget to hand out a lot of speeding tickets for how we were speeding their on our bikes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyhow, that was a tough door!

Max,
Dunedin NZ.
(The Shaman/Rigger)
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Sceptic
post Oct 24 2008, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (CoyoteNZ @ Oct 24 2008, 08:13 PM) *
Don't forget to hand out a lot of speeding tickets for how we were speeding their on our bikes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Yeah, that too. I'm thinking maybe 50 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (which at 10% of what you guys were paid should sting a bit without being too nasty)

QUOTE
Anyhow, that was a tough door!


Standard security door, armor rating 8. Rolling 16 dice versus the assault rifle's 2DV per bullet plus hits on the agility+automatics roll meant that you weren't getting through it that way in a hurry.

Besides which, hopefully the guy's learned that firearms aren't always the appropriate solution. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

(I'm looking forward to playing with his Amnesia / Mysterious Implant flaws...)
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CoyoteNZ
post Oct 24 2008, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE (Sceptic @ Oct 24 2008, 08:29 PM) *
Besides which, hopefully the guy's learned that firearms aren't always the appropriate solution. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)



Actually I think it will teach us that the firearms we carry aren't big enough if we can't get through a door with them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Max,
Dunedin, NZ
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Bobson
post Oct 24 2008, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (Sceptic @ Oct 24 2008, 02:29 AM) *
Standard security door, armor rating 8. Rolling 16 dice versus the assault rifle's 2DV per bullet plus hits on the agility+automatics roll meant that you weren't getting through it that way in a hurry.


Wouldn't a 10-bullet full auto burst do 20+hits vs the door's 16 dice, and thus go through the door reasonably quickly?
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Muspellsheimr
post Oct 24 2008, 10:45 PM
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Bullets do 2 DV vs. objects (I need to double check, might be 1). Door has an Armor of 8. Objects cannot take Stun damage.

This means, you must obtain a total of 7 Net Hits &/or AP to risk damaging the door at all (note: autofire does not increase DV for purposes of determining if it is Stun or Physical).

My solution - Heavy Pistol (2, -1) + Called Shot 4 (lock, hinges, etc.). Requires a minimum of 2 Hits to damage the door, but would result in 8+ DV vs. 14 Resistance dice. Repeat.

Assuming you can do the above with a Burst Fire weapon, then yes, a narrow burst would increase the DV, & 'open' the door quicker.
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Oenone
post Oct 24 2008, 11:15 PM
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Or buy a chisel and simply pry the door open?
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Wounded Ronin
post Oct 24 2008, 11:25 PM
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In my experience many SR players get screwed up by a locked door that specifically uses a "normal" lock and key but not a maglock. This is because maglock passkeys and electronics kits are in the EQ lists but normal lockpicks not so much.
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Mäx
post Oct 24 2008, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Oct 25 2008, 01:45 AM) *
My solution - Heavy Pistol (2, -1) + Called Shot 4 (lock, hinges, etc.). Requires a minimum of 2 Hits to damage the door, but would result in 8+ DV vs. 14 Resistance dice. Repeat.

That should be 16 resistance dice, AP of the gun doesn't count.

I would use a shotgun loaded with Shock Lock Rounds as those halve the barrier rating, so you don't need any net hits and it's only 8 resistance dices against Dv of 6+.
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hyzmarca
post Oct 24 2008, 11:52 PM
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Which is why PCs should always keep a hefty supply of those lockpicking Frag Grenades from the Genesis games.
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the_real_elwood
post Oct 25 2008, 02:47 AM
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QUOTE (CoyoteNZ @ Oct 24 2008, 01:50 AM) *
Actually I think it will teach us that the firearms we carry aren't big enough if we can't get through a door with them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Max,
Dunedin, NZ


This is the correct lesson. Something you will learn quickly though, is that your firearms are NEVER big enough.

Also, try explosives next time.
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TheOOB
post Oct 25 2008, 03:55 AM
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Explosives, blow torches, and a monofiliment chainsaw are all good...if less then subtle ways to break through a door.

Really though, every shadowrunning group should have a good autopicker, maglock passkey, and sequencer, better if you actually have someone who is good with them.
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DTFarstar
post Oct 25 2008, 07:50 AM
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I personally prefer the more classic Universal Troll Key method.

Chris
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Sceptic
post Oct 25 2008, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Oct 25 2008, 08:50 PM) *
I personally prefer the more classic Universal Troll Key method.

The troll in the group has a strength (with augmentation) of 12 too, which means he'd have relatively little trouble in kicking the door in eventually.
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Drogos
post Oct 25 2008, 01:06 PM
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Said Troll definately needs a Monofilament Chainsaw (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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AllTheNothing
post Oct 25 2008, 01:49 PM
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There are also things termite and acids, the first would is not to subtle but fast, the second less eyecatching but slower and both live that "someone has been here" sign after the fact; then other solutions can be found:
Is that the only door?
Can the place be accessed from the roof?
Do the place have at least a window (or worse a Vista)?
A runner group should have a plan, or better several plans, and keep the eyes wide open to adapt to the situation; it's a bit old but if you can get a hold on it your player might use reading "Sprawl Survival Guide", it's fluf-heavy so most of the stuff in it is still viable (even if it lacks the wirless-galore of the 4th edition) and the "Life on the Run" chapter can give you an idea on how the shadows work (in particular "the Plan" from p.99 to p.108 should interest your players).

And remember nobody was born knowing anything they'll just get a hold of it one way or the other, just have fun.
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AllTheNothing
post Oct 25 2008, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (Drogos @ Oct 25 2008, 03:06 PM) *
Said Troll definately needs a Monofilament Chainsaw (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



The question is about what kind of mask should the troll wear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Snow_Fox
post Oct 25 2008, 02:14 PM
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well at least they are paranoid. of course they run the risk of being so wired up that they'd still be staring at that door the next morning when the owner showed. Suggest this is what NPC's are for. either to make 'suggestions' OR to be the one to push the button.
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Wounded Ronin
post Oct 25 2008, 11:07 PM
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If you think about it, it's pretty unthinkable to leave home without breaching charges.
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JeffSz
post Oct 26 2008, 03:19 AM
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In an episode of Burn Notice, Michael explains that going through doors is stupid. Bad guys often reinforce doors. However, few bother reinforcing walls. So you make your own door.
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shuya
post Oct 26 2008, 03:26 AM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Oct 25 2008, 09:14 AM) *
well at least they are paranoid. of course they run the risk of being so wired up that they'd still be staring at that door the next morning when the owner showed. Suggest this is what NPC's are for. either to make 'suggestions' OR to be the one to push the button.

this is why i am glad that my character in our current game is a pothead. although, she's a pothead mage, so the "button" is more often than not a Force 6 Earth Spirit. But, if there WERE a button, she'd probably push it, just to get everybody else to shut up about what we should do with the locked door (it doesn't hurt that all the players are potheads too *cough*cough*ahem*i-know-you're-reading-this-Benny*) (i figure, if a bunch of stoners can get together and actually play a successful game of SR, than a pothead RUNNER isn't so much out of the question).

***edited to remove an unintentional profane typo***
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hyzmarca
post Oct 26 2008, 03:51 AM
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Better yet, bring along a decker with Orbital Weapon Platform Matrix Addresses as a knowledge skill at 6. Have him crack open a thor shot and drop it on the wall you want to make a door in.
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AllTheNothing
post Oct 26 2008, 09:03 AM
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Aside making the players read fluf sourcebooks to untherstand how things are supposed to work, their runner group could be hired by a more experienced group that needs more limbs and/or warm bodies; this very atipical run would offer the opportunity to give "tips" to the runners/players ("what the frag are you doing there? Waiting to be shot?"), it could show some common tactics (and their impact os life-expectancy) and maybe something about doublecrosses and relative conseguences (why do a runner team hire some rookie runners, that smells funny).


QUOTE (shuya @ Oct 26 2008, 04:26 AM) *
(i figure, if a bunch of stoners can get together and actually play a successful game of SR, than a pothead RUNNER isn't so much out of the question).



Stoners? Than you should send their team to LA and use "welcome to the jungle" as soundtrack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) !!!
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AllTheNothing
post Oct 26 2008, 09:07 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 26 2008, 04:51 AM) *
Better yet, bring along a decker with Orbital Weapon Platform Matrix Addresses as a knowledge skill at 6. Have him crack open a thor shot and drop it on the wall you want to make a door in.



Nay chummer, Orbital Bovine Bombardment is the way to go!
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Sceptic
post Oct 26 2008, 01:07 PM
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The second session they were slightly stymied by doors again, but this time they didn't technically need to open them. Of course, they failed to do enough legwork before trying a direct approach, and the guy they were hired to abduct was a security rigger and hence professionally paranoid. After they'd tried talking him out of his apartment (and shown the faces of the two Faces) they left and tried again at the corporation he worked for. And since images of two of them had been left with the reception desk, all this accomplished was getting the other members of the group identified.

In the end they caused enough havoc that the guy called the cops, got himself picked up by the company's security in an armoured vehicle with magical backup, and started sleeping on-site at the corporation.

Fortunately the group took the heavy hint and didn't stage an armed assault on the building after that. The money offered wasn't anywhere near enough for that.

Of course, the Star is now looking for the group member with the SINner negative quality...

[ Spoiler ]
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