[X] My Assistant

[Leofski]

There is a knife in my stomach and you, my friend, are twisting it.

You want it. You want it lots. I have my copy and you'll enjoy it.

1. It has Caracas.
2. If you don't I'll beat you with a chair leg next weekend or otherwise send an attack squad to get you.

[Beetle]

I just downloaded my copy from BattleCorps. I've really got to tip my hat to the guys that made the maps. I had a nice and unexpected Keanu Reeves style "Whoa" escape my lips.

[Adam]

Sean MacDonald really brought the awesome with his maps. I'm pleased to say that he's currently working on maps for two more Shadowrun projects for us right now.

[For those of you that haven't bought the PDF yet or don't plan on buying it, you'll get to see the maps in a later preview...]

[Backgammon]

Street Date - ballpark figure, weeks or months?

[Adam]

We do not estimate Street Dates. The entire purpose of using a street date is to remove those estimations. When we have a street date, we'll post it, and make the book available for pre-order.

[knasser]

Street Date - ballpark figure, weeks or months?

This is what was called the Tao of Fanpro.There are release dates, but no products. There are products, but no release dates.

Just do what the rest of us do: whine and pester the developers constantly. It's your only release from the uncertainty. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Adam]

I think it's pretty fair to say that we're outperforming FanPro in terms of accuracy and throughput ...

[knasser]

I think it's pretty fair to say that we're outperforming FanPro in terms of accuracy and throughput ...

Hey. just teasing, you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Grinder]

I think it's pretty fair to say that we're outperforming FanPro in terms of accuracy and throughput ...

And that's difficult as hell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Ryu]

I think it's pretty fair to say that we're outperforming FanPro in terms of accuracy and throughput ...

Yes, yes you do. Now back to your race with the flying horse, while the crowd cheers both contestants on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Synner]

What? No more comments on the writing? The new campaign format? The ultracool maps? The freeform plug-your-own-adventure-ideas-into-the-plot approach? The secret of tempo? Tenoch? Sheesh, all that sweat, blood and sleepless nights and nary a review?

[Backgammon]

I personally am busy making extended WILL+LOG tests to resist buying the PDF cause I want to hard copy version.

[Trobon]

What? No more comments on the writing? The new campaign format? The ultracool maps? The freeform plug-your-own-adventure-ideas-into-the-plot approach? The secret of tempo? Tenoch? Sheesh, all that sweat and blood and nary a review?

Ok. I'll come out of my shell to say what I thought.

The book was really nicely done and I am glad I bought it after all. I haven't been a huge fan of the big story arc books before. I mean, I do like the changes they bring to the setting and enjoy seeing the Shadowrun story unfold, but actually using the books has always been something that I just can't bring myself to do for some reason. However, Ghost Cartels has gotten me hooked good. I was planning on not GMing any time soon as I am in a tough class right now (at my college we only take one class a quarter, but its 16 credits a class and this is upper division physics), but then this book came along and got me all excited so now I have to GM again.

The fiction, as usual, was very informative and entertaining. I personally, thought it was a little cluttered for my taste, but all in all it was an enjoyable read. It certainly achieved, what I assume was, its primary objective of letting the reader get a good feeling for what's going on in the shadows and how everyone is reacting. It also adds a lot of context to the rest of the book, but again, not unusual.

The meat of the book, the three story-arcs/frameworks/whatchamajigers, were very nicely done in my opinion. I liked the way that it was set up so that the general idea of what was going on in the cities was told first with the adventures referenced right there so that I can not only decide where my players can fit in easier, but it also allows me to come up with my own side stories and sub-plots, which actually leads into another part I liked a lot. The sequel/side-plot areas at the end of each chapter was another good thing to have and I look forward to using a couple of those myself.

The secret was a whole thing unto itself. I have to say that I did not see it coming at all and my players will be very very surprised when we play through it.

The only thing that I can't find, although I admit I haven't read through it very carefully, is what the general ballpark is for the big payout at the end of the players being on retainer. I haven't ever done anything to that degree and it's going to be a little difficult to work it out.

All in all, it is a very good book and I am excited about running it.

[Heath Robinson]

You want it. You want it lots. I have my copy and you'll enjoy it.

1. It has Caracas.
2. If you don't I'll beat you with a chair leg next weekend or otherwise send an attack squad to get you.

This argument is persuasive enough for me. Catalyst will be getting my monies.

[kanislatrans]

just got permission from the accounting dept . will be ordering tonite. WOOt! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[knasser]

What? No more comments on the writing? The new campaign format? The ultracool maps? The freeform plug-your-own-adventure-ideas-into-the-plot approach? The secret of tempo? Tenoch? Sheesh, all that sweat, blood and sleepless nights and nary a review?

Well you've already got some positive comments from me. And I'm not someone who is prone to saying nice things for the sake of it, so you can take that as a very solidly grounded opinion. I really like it. I think it's very good for a number of reasons. However, I've only read about just over a third of the entirety of it. When I've gone through most of it, I'll post my review. I already have six paragraphs of draft review for it, but it wouldn't be fair to post without having read nearly all of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's about 170 pages long and some of us have social lives, you know! Patience. We're still digesting it all, but I think the general reaction is that we like the taste. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Khadim.

[Prime Mover]

Baby incoming soon and x-mas around the corner, budget demands I wait on print release...be happy to review once I got it! So far sounds like a great product, really looking forward to finaly finding out the "secret", please spoiler tag it if someone mentions it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)

[Synner]

It's about 170 pages long and some of us have social lives, you know! Patience. We're still digesting it all, but I think the general reaction is that we like the taste. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You're right, of course, I'm just so used to Dumpshock tearing every book apart within 24 hours of release that the wait is getting to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Seriously though, there are several reasons I'm more impatient than usual for feedback. In many ways Ghost Cartels as a product and as a story/campaign is telling of where I want to take Shadowrun as developer. It was a complicated book to put together for a number of reasons - I believe at one point I thought it was cursed - but I'm quite enthusiastic about the way it came out. Bobby, Malik, Jennifer, Jay, Elissa and Lars produced some excellent material, Sean added some awesome maps, and Adam brought it all together with his usual flair.

In many respects Ghost Cartels is something of a departure for us. With it we're introducing a new format for campaigns, one I'm anxious to get feedback on. The new style melds the best elements IMHO of a "canned" adventure (character stats, location descriptions and maps, and fiction elements to be used as handouts), with elements of the “track� campaigns (the freeform adventure frameworks and the profiles of major players and events) and “metaplot� adventures (the fiction/in character sections and the overall narrative continuity of the metaplot). We also conceived it so that it actually encourages gamemasters to add their own adventures to the overall plot and develop things beyond the existing frameworks. But that's not all, Ghost Cartels was developed to closely integrate with published material, both location books and rulebooks so that groups that have been buying into SR4 get the extra value for their buck - and frankly, so we pimp the stuff that's in those books. This is something new in terms of SR products and I'm very keen to see how it goes over with the fans.

Storywise, I'm very happy with what we came up with and what all the writers brought to the project - from Fatima's demise to Haze's addiction to Primeira Vaga. I can honestly say this is how I envision Shadowrun 4 plots in the future. Ghost Cartels has the global impact of our biggest metaplots (in it's way) while remaining true to the street-level perspective and storytelling that we've tried to implement with the new edition. It has the gritty plotline, the background mystery, and the surprise twist (more on that soon) and yet the focus is very much on the player character's actions. Heck it literally "seeds" future plotlines.

[Ancient History]

Heh. BAD babies. Eheh.

[Trobon]

You're right, of course, I'm just so used to Dumpshock tearing every book apart within 24 hours of release that the wait is getting to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Seriously though, there are several reasons I'm more impatient than usual for feedback. In many ways Ghost Cartels as a product and as a story/campaign is telling of where I want to take Shadowrun as developer. It was a complicated book to put together for a number of reasons - I believe at one point I thought it was cursed - but I'm quite enthusiastic about the way it came out. Bobby, Malik, Jennifer, Jay, Elissa and Lars produced some excellent material, Sean added some awesome maps, and Adam brought it all together.

In many respects Ghost Cartels is something of a departure for us. With it we're introducing a new format for campaigns, one I'm anxious to get feedback on. The new style melds the best elements IMHO of a "canned" adventure (character stats, location descriptions and maps, and fiction elements to be used as handouts), with elements of the “track� campaigns (the freeform adventure frameworks and the profiles of major players and events) and “metaplot� adventures (the fiction/in character sections and the overall narrative continuity of the metaplot). We also conceived it so that it actually encourages gamemasters to add their own adventures to the overall plot and develop things beyond the existing frameworks. But that's not all, Ghost Cartels was developed to closely integrate with published material, both location books and rulebooks so that groups that have been buying into SR4 get the extra value for their buck - and frankly, so we pimp the stuff that's in those books. This is something new in terms of SR products and I'm very keen to see how it goes over with the fans.

Storywise, I'm very happy with what we came up with and what all the writers brought to the project - from Fatima's demise to Haze's addiction to Primeira Vaga. I can honestly say this is how I envision Shadowrun 4 plots in the future. Ghost Cartels has the global impact of our biggest metaplots (in it's way) while remaining true to the street-level perspective and storytelling that we've tried to implement with the new edition. It has the gritty plotline, the background mystery, and the surprise twist (more on that soon) and yet the focus is very much on the player character's actions. Heck it literally "seeds" future plotlines.

Well that's good to know. I think knowing what you're looking for in terms of reviews is helpful for the process of giving feedback.

On the first point, the format, I've already given my opinion on it. I think that the adventure framework format is a great one for Shadowrun, giving adventures themselves in a very loose way and making them interconnect, but stay apart and have nice sequel ideas just by themselves makes a great read in my book. As I said, I feel encouraged to not only use some of the adventures from the book, but to make a nice campaign out of it, interconnecting the story with player plots and side tracks of my choosing. That's more than I could ever say about any of the other books. I really disliked Emergence because I felt it gave too little guidance, and Ghost Cartels is a great change of Pace.

On the second point, integrating other material, this is a tricky subject. On the one hand you want to give people who have the material more to do with it. However, on the other hand you can't make it unusable for those who don't have it. **NOTE: I am using Neo-Tokyo as my basis for this part** I think that, for the most part, this was accomplished. You made sure that anyone who didn't own it wouldn't feel left out, but in the end I didn't see enough that expanded or could be expanded from the use of other books. Some side-missions using the info from those books more heavily wouldn't have been too much I think, but all in all fairly well done.

Now onto the third and final part, the story. You've got the gritty, street level thing going pretty well for it. I think you've made a campaign that's both globetrotting and street level. It still has a good amount of surprises and mystery like I've come to expect from a Shadowrun game. The only thing that I would say is that the story is fairly linear and one way. Now, I know this is going to look like I am going against my first point, but I am trying to reconcile that in my head. The story in this book is meant to follow the path of the book. Now you can go off the path and there are places where you can make great offshoot campaigns based on a few things alone. However, this is no where near as prominent as it was in the older campaign books. There don't seem to be as many random things going on over on the side. There are some side-treks but these are tied into the original missions/storyline more than just "hey and this is happening" sort of stuff. However, given the choice of this style OR the Emergence style I would go for this one, but I do miss those random bits a little.

There. Those were the three big things you were specifically asking about and there is my opinion on them.

[fistandantilus4....]

I personally am busy making extended WILL+LOG tests to resist buying the PDF cause I want to hard copy version.

That's precisely where I'm at as well.

[Synner]

@fistandantilus: whenever you do get it, expect the usual easter egg hunt...

[Grinder]

That's precisely where I'm at as well.

Yeah, me too.

[fistandantilus4....]

@fistandantilus: whenever you do get it, expect the usual easter egg hunt...

Sweet! You know how I love those. But we're moving right now and my financial advisor (read:wife) has advised me to wait.

Besides, for adventures, I really like to have something in front of me with actual pages. I just don't want to wait that long.

[Sir_Psycho]

Personally I'd love to get a look at a sample of these maps that have got people talking.