Magical Augmentation Options

[hyzmarca]

No, Karma represents learning, not changing. When you increase your Body, it is not because you are spending Karma, it is because you are working out for a period of time. Karma is in place as a game mechanic to say how much & when you can make such increases. It has nothing to do with those increases in-game.

The way I see it, extrapolated from the actual rules, karma is the brick and mortar of the metaphysical, though thread might be a better analogy. It is used to build Patterns, and to build them up. With magicians and free spirits, this is fairly direct weaving of karma into Threads and Patterns, and using Threads to tie patterns together, though it is often obfuscated by ritual. When you increase your Body, you are doing the same. You are adding to your Pattern, but this is obfuscated by the ritual of exercise that is necessary to achieve this.

[AllTheNothing]

The way I see it, extrapolated from the actual rules, karma is the brick and mortar of the metaphysical, though thread might be a better analogy. It is used to build Patterns, and to build them up. With magicians and free spirits, this is fairly direct weaving of karma into Threads and Patterns, and using Threads to tie patterns together, though it is often obfuscated by ritual. When you increase your Body, you are doing the same. You are adding to your Pattern, but this is obfuscated by the ritual of exercise that is necessary to achieve this.

Can't magical augmentations add to the patter while being offuscated by the enchanting ritual?

[the_real_elwood]

I like the idea of being able to make magical effects augmentations. But you're right in that making it cost essence or magic would not really be worthwhile. If it costs essence or magic, why not just use cyberware instead, because essence cost is the primary barrier to augmenting a mage. The problem then is to balance it so that you don't have radically augmented mages who are also slinging high-powered spells. I like the idea of costing karma, and obviously bucketloads of nuyen, but maybe being able to do magical augmentations should somehow be tied to a magician's initiation level as well (like, at a level of initiation you don't gain a point to your magic rating, but instead gain the ability to do magical augmentations. The magical augmentation should probably also cause significant risk to the magician performing it as well, with at least some percentage of death or permanant injury during the procedure as well.

[AllTheNothing]

I like the idea of being able to make magical effects augmentations. But you're right in that making it cost essence or magic would not really be worthwhile. If it costs essence or magic, why not just use cyberware instead, because essence cost is the primary barrier to augmenting a mage. The problem then is to balance it so that you don't have radically augmented mages who are also slinging high-powered spells. I like the idea of costing karma, and obviously bucketloads of nuyen, but maybe being able to do magical augmentations should somehow be tied to a magician's initiation level as well (like, at a level of initiation you don't gain a point to your magic rating, but instead gain the ability to do magical augmentations. The magical augmentation should probably also cause significant risk to the magician performing it as well, with at least some percentage of death or permanant injury during the procedure as well.

Tieing augmentation to the initiation level gives the shaft to non-awakened, magical augmentations should be aviable to technomancers and odd people who shy away from main-stream augmentation, also if rule that in order to gain magical augmentations you have to initiate giving up the ability to raise the magic rating you end up with a magitian turned to mystic adept, you could go for mystic adept in first place or a magitian who takes some delta-grade bioware.

[the_real_elwood]

I'm not saying to tie the ability to have magical augmentations to your initiation level. I'm talking about having to be initiated to be able to perform the magical augmentation. So in comparison to cyberware, some form of magical initiation would be equivalent to the cybersurgery skill. I think this would help everyone and their uncle from being able to load up on magical augmentation. If any mage could perform magical augmentations on someone without taking a hit to their other abilities, then every runner team would have a magician who'd load everyone up.

[Ancient History]

Y'know, we do have something like this. It's called cy-ber-man-cy.

[Muspellsheimr]

Cybermancy is vastly different from what I am aiming for.

As for requiring Initiation, check my rough-draft write up (post #21).


After thinking about the various alternate-method suggestions, I have decided that Essence is indeed the best way to go for costs, so anyone with suggestions regarding the amount of Essence loss are welcome to make them.

[AllTheNothing]

I'm not saying to tie the ability to have magical augmentations to your initiation level. I'm talking about having to be initiated to be able to perform the magical augmentation. So in comparison to cyberware, some form of magical initiation would be equivalent to the cybersurgery skill. I think this would help everyone and their uncle from being able to load up on magical augmentation. If any mage could perform magical augmentations on someone without taking a hit to their other abilities, then every runner team would have a magician who'd load everyone up.

My bad, I've missuntherstood everything.
Well obviviously magical augmentations are cutting edge, something that requires specific studies/research, not a things that every street mage, let alone wizkid, can do; it MUST require a metamagic tecnique, probably one that can't be taken st initiation but must be researched or learned as per Street Magic optional rule (naturaly if said rule is disallowed it chould be take at initiation).
As for tieing the augmentation to the initiation level I think that having the metamagic is enough.
Here is (again) a link to an idea of mine Idea on magic tatoos, if you read it you can see that magical augmentation can have a quite hefty karma cost at high force (unther my pseudo-rules a force 6 tatoo would cost 110 karma), that should put the player in the position where having a fully augmented is not the best way to go.
Pleas take a look to it, I'm still waiting a comment about it from Ancient History and I would like to discuss my idea because I think it has the potential to be cool and not overpowered; and pleas even if the answer is "It sucks" let me know what you think.

[AllTheNothing]

Y'know, we do have something like this. It's called cy-ber-man-cy.

Wheren't we talking about augmenting the characters without filling them with 'ware?

[Fortune]

It is sort of the same principle though. You are magically dicking around with the Essence of the character. And the same dudes that are responsible for a lot of the in-roads in Cybermancy are the very same people that have personal experience with Blood Charms in the 4th World.

[AllTheNothing]

It is sort of the same principle though. You are magically dicking around with the Essence of the character. And the same dudes that are responsible for a lot of the in-roads in Cybermancy are the very same people that have personal experience with Blood Charms in the 4th World.

Same principle? Just like most of the things this is a matter of point of view.
While I can untherstand where you're coming from I would like to point out that everything followes the basic laws of the univers (phisics and the kind), and while things are based on the same basic principles the end results are all over a quite wide spectrum of possibilities (heck just think to E=MC², a few gramms of matter could wipe out a city yet the same ammount of matter doesn't seem so threatening when you flush it down the tube).