Spirit perception, but i dont really have eyes :) Options

[Namelessjoe]

Hi guys(and ladies)

I'm in the process of making a free spirit smuggler and was needing a comlink for communication purposes. but i know they cant read because on page 92 runners companion "Note, however, that spirits are unable to see or interpret simsense, electronic projections on screens, or AR displays." so how do i see is it just an interpretation of photons striking my pseudo-energy body? if so if i wear cloths or armor does it reduce my senses? and would a plasma or liquid crystal screen work but not a projection screen work?

i figure it's the interpretation of photons hitting my body
so an image link would look like ether a little lazier hitting my bod and ignored were as i would need a big full body halo-projector to make AR work
i figure sound is the same but it would work like a grass hopper who hears through his sides, so ear buds could go anywhere (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

then i wonder about flair comp usage
any way any feedback would be great. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) thanks in advanced

[Bobson]

Hi guys(and ladies)

I'm in the process of making a free spirit smuggler and was needing a comlink for communication purposes. but i know they cant read because on page 92 runners companion "Note, however, that spirits are unable to see or interpret simsense, electronic projections on screens, or AR displays." so how do i see is it just an interpretation of photons striking my pseudo-energy body? if so if i wear cloths or armor does it reduce my senses? and would a plasma or liquid crystal screen work but not a projection screen work?

i figure it's the interpretation of photons hitting my body
so an image link would look like ether a little lazier hitting my bod and ignored were as i would need a big full body halo-projector to make AR work
i figure sound is the same but it would work like a grass hopper who hears through his sides, so ear buds could go anywhere (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

then i wonder about flair comp usage
any way any feedback would be great. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) thanks in advanced

I haven't read it, but I'd assume they see the same way any astrally projecting mage does. Anything that lives shows up clearly, anything that doesn't shows up less distinctly, anything that doesn't actually exist physically (such as AR), doesn't show at all.

[Namelessjoe]

i guess i meant when they are manifesting in the physical world so there dual-natured so, i think, they dont take the -2 penelity for anything

[Namelessjoe]

after looking at how stuff works maybe electronicaly projected images don't work for spirits because their brain doesn't automatically invoke movement or combine the dots the way a (meta)humans brain does they just see shifting dots but more like blinking in different patterns, this could also be explained by them having 2 IP's so they are faster then your average tv updates

at least that a new thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

A spirit in astral form would be unable to process AR information, as astral forms cannot have Image Links. However, I can see a Free Spirit Manifesting and wearing AR glasses, or a Free Spirit posessing someone and using their AR glasses.

Materializing gives eyes that work on the material plane, then all you're doing is using those to look through a lens and see the images. Otherwise, when a materialized free spirit goes to the movies or sees a TV (archaic but still around), he'd only see the blank glass screen.

[Stahlseele]

it DOES kinda raise the question as to in how far visibility modifiers like bad lighting apply to spirits neh?
if they don't see with their eyes, then why would absolute darkness hinder them in any way or kind?
or smoke? or anything aside from walls and living things?

[Namelessjoe]

I think they still see light but how they sense it is were I'm having issues like of example if i was a toaster or a piller of flame (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) i would have no eyes then of course no goggles to look through but if someone layed some AR glasses next to me the toaster could i read the AR if its like assensing the real world then smoak may be easer to look through then agian its just matter in your way just like a wall... still im not sure fluff wise




EDIT: as an after though maybe spirits see the invisible mana that's in the physical world which is how they can see in the dark and view computer/tv screens as blank

[WeaverMount]

Spirits don't have regular vision unless they have the Enhanced Senses Power. I forget exactly when this came up but it was quit a hullabaloo a while back. I actually really like the fluff about spirits not having the neurology render video images by the way

[Neraph]

I liked the fluff of a guy getting a free spirit some BTLs even though the spirit can't DNI, but the spirit went through the motions anyways and thanked the guy afterwards for the "good hits" or something.

[Namelessjoe]

I liked the fluff of a guy getting a free spirit some BTLs even though the spirit can't DNI, but the spirit went through the motions anyways and thanked the guy afterwards for the "good hits" or something.

I think this would be "social condtioning" or a trait or responce infused my his creater maybe the mage who summoned him was a chiphead so just having one and playing it in a player was a good enough placebo.....

btw we played last night and went for the blank screen aspect being as spirits are always just a little out of sinch. so, my van and bike both have big manuel gage clusters so i can have all the readouts i need

[Neraph]

Spirits don't have regular vision unless they have the Enhanced Senses Power. I forget exactly when this came up but it was quit a hullabaloo a while back. I actually really like the fluff about spirits not having the neurology render video images by the way

Good usage of hullabaloo.

[The Jopp]

Hmm, I quite like that solution, but I would like to add another one.

Materialization Spirits
These spirits can read AR and not be hampered if they have the enhanced senses power.

Possession Spirits
These spirits borrows the senses of their host and if they can read AR then the spirit can too.

[Neraph]

Hmm, I quite like that solution, but I would like to add another one.

Materialization Spirits
These spirits can read AR and not be hampered if they have the enhanced senses power.

Possession Spirits
These spirits borrows the senses of their host and if they can read AR then the spirit can too.

Very reasonable. I'd do something similar in my own games.

[raggedhalo]

I know this is a bit thread-necro, but it came up last night.

One of my players just created a new character (a Materialisation Free Spirit) and we were talking about what he can and can't do.

Obviously, using AR or even a screen is right out, per pg. 92.

However, I was wondering about stuff like reading books. I know that in previous editions (SR2) spirits couldn't read things like this, but could extract emotional information from the text, making road signs useless but diaries interesting (if light on detail). Is that still the case? Does anyone have a page reference for it in SR4?

[darthmord]

There is some text regarding that in Street magic. I'm at work otherwise I could give you a page number.

[crizh]

Matrix accessories that allow interaction with AR and are not neuro-interactive -- such as AR gloves, goggles, feedback clothing, etc -- may be used by spirits and critters

Endof.

Various Devs keep slipping through text like that in RC quoted in the OP. It is almost universally half-assed, self-contradictory or lame. As far as I'm concerned, for as long as the FAQ continues to say the above, that's what the official rules are.

It is clear that some in the Dev team either were confused about what the rules were, were still in SR3 mode or would prefer to roll things back to the way they used to be. If you search these boards you will find at least one instance of statements about spirits not being able to use AR being retracted by a Dev after the situation was clarified by Rob Boyle.

Now that I think of it RC was probably in final draft at the time that happened which would explain why that text is in there. The accepted wisdom on the Dev team at the time of writing was that Spirits ought not to have access to AR but this opinion changed late on in the editing process and the stupid text about 'electronic projections' wasn't caught before it shipped.

[Browncoatone]

Why don't you just print out your communication on paper in braille and then read it?

[Dwight]

WTF? Already made it 17 posts without anyone suggesting a FAB based system using micro/nano sized shutters or such? In truth you don't even need to use FAB, just plain old bacteria culture on/under the shutters will do.