Essence drain and recovery, Sorry, I searched and failed Options

[Bearclaw]

OK, so if I'm drained of 3 points of essance by a vampire, do I get it back?

[Daddy's Litt...]

I do not think so. I seem to remember reading somewhere you could buy it back with lots of karma, but in general I think you are hosed. That is why vamprie victims die.

[Tarantula]

Pretty much. I think the stuff in aug for restoring essence holes works. Thats about it.

[Malachi]

Nope, Essence lost to Essence Drain cannot be recovered.
Augmentation, pg. 128

Note that Essence lost from other sources—addiction, a blood
spirit’s Energy Drain power, etc.—does not leave an Essence hole
that may be filled up with implants. That Essence is lost for good.

[MJBurrage]

Nope, Essence lost to Essence Drain cannot be recovered.
Augmentation, pg. 128

I would actually allow essence drain, and essence loss from addiction to be recovered, but it is spirit based, rather than tech based, and double the cost. I.E. a shaman/mage with spirits uses their connection to the metaplanes etc. to heal the lost essence. House rule I know, but if I am going to let voluntary essence loss be restored, it only seems fair to let involuntary loss be healed.

EDIT: That's what I get for answering without checking; such loss is recoverable under RAW already. I would still allow restoration of lost Magic/Resonance rating via a special astral/resonance realm quest, after the essence itself has been restored.

[Muspellsheimr]

The only way to restore lost Essence are lengthy & expensive genetic treatments.

Revitalization restores all Essence lost from Essence Drain & similar powers.
Another one of which name I have forgotten restores Essence lost due to implants (assuming the implants have been removed), but is extremely time consuming & expensive.

[Tarantula]

Nope, Essence lost to Essence Drain cannot be recovered.
Augmentation, pg. 128

Aug, 89, "Though Essence points lost to implantation,
Energy Drain, and addiction may be restored through
gene therapy, Magic/Resonance points lost are never returned and
reductions to the maximum Magic/Resonance attribute remain
in effect."

Yes, it can.

[Malachi]

Huh. I see a contradiction in the RAW in Augmentation (a contradiction in SR? What a surprise!)

Augmentation pg. 28

In game terms, revitalization regenerates the Essence “hole�
left by the removal of an implant from the body. Revitalization is
slow and Essence is restored by recurring gene therapy sessions at
a rate of 0.1 Essence per month. Though Essence points lost to implantation,
Energy Drain, and addiction may be restored through
gene therapy, Magic/Resonance points lost are never returned and
reductions to the maximum Magic/Resonance attribute remain
in effect.

Augmentation pg. 128

Note that Essence lost from other sources—addiction, a blood
spirit’s Energy Drain power, etc.—does not leave an Essence hole
that may be filled up with implants. That Essence is lost for good.

The first section states that Revitilization restores Essence "holes" and specifically mentions Energy Drain. The second section specifically mentions that Engergy Drain does not create an "Essence hole."

[Tarantula]

Not a contradiction. You're jumping sections and assuming they are talking about the same thing. The second section is discussing essence holes in the context of replacing/upgrading 'ware. There is lost essence from other effects, and there is lost essence from removal of an implant, called an essence hole.

Essence holes: Can be used as "credit" towards a new implant. Can be healed via revitalization.
Lost essence (Energy drain etc.): Can not be used as credit towards implants. Can be healed via revitalization.

[Malachi]

Ah, I'm with you now Tarantula. Still, I think the description of Revitalization could probably be better word to something like (my addition in bold):
In game terms, revitalization regenerates lost Essence, including the Essence "hole" left by the removal of an implant from the body.

[Stahlseele]

so, let's say blood spirit sucks off one point . . i install something for another point . . that does put me at 2 points loss . . and if i remove that ware for one point i have . . what?
an essence hole of 2 points or two holes of each one point and i can only fill up that one point before my essence goes down again? or is the now combined hole of 2 points fillable with more stuff than just one point worth? or is it really that much more hassle to keep track after such an occurence?

[Tarantula]

You would have 1 point of lost essence from the blood spirit and one point of essence hole, usable as credit toward future implants.

The full 2points is able to be restored with revitalization if you choose.

[Malachi]

two holes of each one point and i can only fill up that one point before my essence goes down again?

This part is correct. You would have one Essence "hole" of 1 point from the removed 'ware and 1 point of "lost" Essence. Only the 1 point "hole" from the removed 'ware can be used as a "credit" for further 'ware to be installed. The point of Essence lost to the Blood Spirit can only be recovered through Revitalization.

EDIT: Bah, T beat me to it, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[AllTheNothing]

In Augmentation at p.88 there is a thing called "Cellular Repair" that seems to do the same thing in much shorter time (from one week to two months) and is much cheaper (as can genetach be called cheap) than revitalization; it works more or less on anything that would creeple a guy that not an implant (including essence loss) and lacks that statement that keeps the magic/resonance reduction in place. What you think, can a mage regain magic lost to a vampire this way?

[Tarantula]

Hrm, I'm inclined to say that yes, it would allow magic to be regained. Your max would increase, you would still have to spend the karma to get the point back.

Also, I would not be surprised if it gets hit with errata.

[Malachi]

Yeah, I think that needs to be corrected. If Cellular Repair works faster and better for Essence lost due to Energy Drain then there's no reason for Revitalization to even exist for those applications. I think the costs/times also need to examined from a "does this make sense" point of view. What should be easier, faster, and cheaper to repair: Essence that "isn't there" because of 'ware that is now removed, or Essence ripped from the body (or "soul") due to some paramagical effect?

[ArkonC]

We've always used cellular repair for ware related essence loss and revitalization for other essence loss...

[TheOOB]

I'm sure there is an unofficial free spirit pact that can be used to regain essence. I can think of at least one SR fiction example where a spirit restored a shaman's lost essence due to ware.

That said, other then in aug I can't think of any RAW ways to restore essence.

[AllTheNothing]

Hrm, I'm inclined to say that yes, it would allow magic to be regained. Your max would increase, you would still have to spend the karma to get the point back.

Also, I would not be surprised if it gets hit with errata.

I too think that you have to pay karma to regain magic, genetch can realign the body to its aura but the connection to astral is a spiritual link that must be repaired by spiritual meenings.
Another point is "what happens if you get jumped by another (maybe the same) fragging vampire?", I meen you are left with a magic attribute of 1 due essence loss, you go to the hospital (which in the shadow meens a shadow clinic) and get Cellular Repair, than the bloodsucker sucks away a point of essence and your talent burns out, that stinks. I think that when you regain your essence the point of magic/resonance peviously lost become a sort of buffer treshold that must be filled with magic/resonance loss before you start losing magic/resonance. As you increase the attribute, repairing the link to the astral plane, the buffer treshold is reduced until you have regained the magic/resonance lost.

[MJBurrage]

Reading over the whole thread, and rereading the wording of the two treatments in question, it seems clear to me that the intention (and proper RAW reading) boils down to:

• Cellular Repair: (a subclass of Augmented Healing) Only restores Essence lost to energy/essence drain, but also restores the related Magic/Resonance loss.
• Revitalization: Can restore any Essence loss, but does not restore lost Magic/Resonance (rating and max both stay reduced)

Given that energy/essence drain is completely involuntary (unlike implants or arguably drugs), it is very reasonable to have a way to correct it.

So that still leaves RAW forbidding restoration of magic/resonance that was essentially given up by choice.

Note, that I still personally believe that their should be some kind of costly Astral/Resonance realm quest that does restore lost Magic/Resonance—regardless of how it was lost—after the essence has been restored.

[AllTheNothing]

Reading over the whole thread, and rereading the wording of the two treatments in question, it seems clear to me that the intention (and proper RAW reading) boils down to:

• Cellular Repair: (a subclass of Augmented Healing) Only restores Essence lost to energy/essence drain, but also restores the related Magic/Resonance loss.
• Revitalization: Can restore any Essence loss, but does not restore lost Magic/Resonance (rating and max both stay reduced)

Given that energy/essence drain is completely involuntary (unlike implants or arguably drugs), it is very reasonable to have a way to correct it.

So that still leaves RAW forbidding restoration of magic/resonance that was essentially given up by choice.

Note, that I still personally believe that their should be some kind of costly Astral/Resonance realm quest that does restore lost Magic/Resonance��"regardless of how it was lost��"after the essence has been restored.

Nothing against astral quests but shouldn't the expenditure of karma suffice?

[Daddy's Litt...]

I would think so. Spending karma like that is 'living a life.' You have been drained of that life stuff and try to rebuild it through experiences.

[Wounded Ronin]

I feel like that Revitalization crap should have been mentioned in the BBB. If you're going to introduce essence-draining monsters how can you not add the details by which the damage is restored? That would be like having the whole section on combat but nothing on damage and healing.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Restoring essence is new with SR4. Essence-draining monsters are not.