Character Depth without the Angst/Emo Options

[Aaron]

Any of that online?

For twelve bucks, yes.

[Ryu]

Any of that online?

I found this: Amber Character Questionaire

[masterofm]

I invented a new word for emo I call it angst! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Teens have angst. They also going to RP, but it is going to be angsty RP. At least that is what I remember doing myself when I was younger. All my characters were some twisted version of myself or what I always wanted to be except with a small helping of angst. There were others who had much more, but hell almost everyone I knew who was a teenager had angst and was rebellious. Most of my friends, my parents (and their friends) and my grandparents (not too sure about their friends though.)

[Aaron]

I found this: Amber Character Questionaire

Those seem to be excerpts from the original. I'm not sure whether they're verbatim, going from memory, but I believe they're in there. If I'm not mistaken, the questions on the linked page represent fewer than half of the number of questions in the book.

[Wounded Ronin]

Angst is okay if it's manly. Then it's mangst, I guess.

Example: Rambo in Rambo 3. He has angst, but then he puts it, and half the Burmese army, away.

.50 cal machine gun + angst = mangst.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Teens have angst. They also going to RP, but it is going to be angsty RP. At least that is what I remember doing myself when I was younger. All my characters were some twisted version of myself or what I always wanted to be except with a small helping of angst. There were others who had much more, but hell almost everyone I knew who was a teenager had angst and was rebellious. Most of my friends, my parents (and their friends) and my grandparents (not too sure about their friends though.)

Bingo. That's your biggest problem. Anyone who is new to gaming is acting outside of their comfort zone. To make RPing more comfortable, they usually pick or create characters that they are familiar with (ie recreating characters from shows or movies), or they create themselves in the game world (hell, I did this my first campaign). However, regardless of what character they play, beginners usually don't know how to RP, so they just let tons and tons of their quirks and ideologies and beliefs dump into their character so they become a carbon copy of themselves. When you have an angsty teen with no real trouble to cause them angst (save puberty) playing someone they're not, they will dump all of that RL angst into their character. At least with their characters they have a reason to be angsty, so it's not that bad.

I am a firm believer that kids are stupid, not on the grounds that they lack intelligence, but because they lack any kind of experience or hardships. You won't see the teen who has been made to get a job and buy their own silly clothes and learn to wash them by themselves and support their asses being angsty. They don't have time for that shit, they've got to get to work and pay some bills. Kids only have angst until they realize that RL takes effort and some personal responsibility and unfortunately, for most kids that doesn't come until college and for some, later than that. So, when RPing with kids in High School, be prepared for a good heaping dose of angst and just deal with it, because these kids haven't ever had a reason to be depressed. Their level of angst is inversely proportional to the amount of suffering the person has actually experienced IRL.

Once someone (even angsty teenagers) gets comfortable with RPing though, they will start creating characters outside of their comfort zones and start branching out and acting in good manners. RPing has that training wheels learning curve where everybody totally makes their first character act just like they would, and usually in some kind of lawless psychopathic manner. Hell, my first SR game, all of us were brand new to RPing and totally acted like a bunch of noobs that represented what we would do in a world without any real repercussions.

[Platinum Dragon]

so would it be emo do to a facepalm and ask in a whiny voice:"why me?" when someone else does/says something excruciatingly stupid?

Not unless you do it constantly and turn yourself into a pariah.

I'm sorry, but I really can't take 'Emo' seriously. I guess it doesn't help that whenever I read the word, I picture 'Elmo' instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[elmo voice]Elmo knows where you live![/elmo]

This is why physical and mental quirks are so important (see 20 Questions) for a character. Take my czech hacker, Beta, for example. Sure, her mother and best childhood friend were murdered violently at the hand of a Shedim possessing her father. Sounds like the typical emo backstory, right? To work this in and make it relevant, rather than Beta constantly referencing her dead parents, instead she displays fear and discomfort at the sight and smell of meat, and also has a phobia of physical contact and intimacy with others. To get the intimacy and sexual gratification she shuns she lives a voyeuristic life over the matrix, and drowns herself in BTL porn sims.

That's awesome. I wish I could create characters half as detailed as that.

[masterofm]

I think what everyone has gotten at, but has never hit the mark is flavor. A character should always have flavor. This makes a 2d character a 3d character and in the end more fun to play. It can sometimes restrict your character in what you want to do, but it can at the same time make them more interesting.

For instance I had a somewhat angst driven character but man alive was/is he fun to play.

His name is Bob (formerly Yuske Takahashi) and he is a troll who was taken by force from his family and brought up at a young age by the JIS and brainwashed. When he was sent into the field he was also mind controlled (for fear that he might turn on his superior officers) to capture those trolls and orcs in the San Francisco underground during JIS occupation. When the mind control spell wore off due to the fact that Bob became awakened, he became enraged at how he was manipulated and in a fit of rage killed the rest of the team he was working with. Bob then took on his new name as he wanted to have nothing to do with the JIS. Although he was fully under JIS control he still blames himself for being manipulated into turning in his fellow metahumans and felt that he should have been stronger to resist what he had done.

He then went on a two year drug binge, alienated all of his contacts, and has so far sold everything he has except for his suit of full body armor (that has the JIS symbol scratched off of it.) During that time though he was able to self teach himself the new powers that he had somehow been bestowed. He takes combat drugs when in combat to feel alive, and when he is not fighting he takes any other type of drug to forget his sins. During this time he joined the resistance movement against the JIS, but due to his over enthusiastic tendencies to needlessly kill the JIS he became somewhat of a liability to anyone else on his team. To the point where the only missions he could get were what the resistance considered suicide missions however he was happy as long as he could kill his former tormentors. Somehow through all of this he has managed to survive and after the fall of the JIS occupation he found himself again without a purpose, that is until a sun mentor spirit took pity on him and guided his hand giving him a new purpose in life. Although still a drug addict with no friends and living in a dumpster with a sack of his old belongings he is determined to make up for his past transgressions and press on with his life. Bob is almost always sporting a stained garish Hawaiian t-shirt, shaded sunglasses, sandals, and a pair of baggy shorts.

He is a risky character who over-summons all of his spirits even if he doesn't need to, takes crazy combat drugs, and is actually incredibly smart, although it is as much of a blessing as it is a curse in his case. He doesn't know why he is still alive. Yet in the end he is not a broody character, but he is generally hung over and will not hesitate to snatch drugs out of your hand... at least your hand is open. He has angst but it is more of a bad assed angst, kind of like the mangst Wounded Ronin was talking about. Since he has flavor he is fun to play, and easier to roll play.

[sunnyside]

Heh. Mangst.

Teens have angst. They also going to RP, but it is going to be angsty RP. At least that is what I remember doing myself when I was younger. All my characters were some twisted version of myself or what I always wanted to be except with a small helping of angst. There were others who had much more, but hell almost everyone I knew who was a teenager had angst and was rebellious. Most of my friends, my parents (and their friends) and my grandparents (not too sure about their friends though.)

How old are you? I thought you were another of us late 20's early 30's guys.

The reason being because my general impression was that the angsty angle in RP was newish. I seem to recall my early gaming groups leaning more towards RPing characters who were, if anything, more confident, manly/womanly, and better with the opposite sex than the player.

And even today I'd say the SR sample characters are trying to push the players that direction. Mental health issues sure. Complete jerk? Maybe. But not a lot of angst from even the ones that are all done up in black.

If anything tragic pasts and other traditional angst sources add more depth to such characters becuase, well, it's on a different plane. By that I mean when Emo McGoth misses their mommy it isn't adding anything to the character. If Conan or the Bounty Hunter does than it's good for a jaw dropping all around.

Also, I got another new player today

Appearance: Sunstar stands 5'11" and is very pale with bright blue eyes. She is commonly seen wearing black shirts and pants with black steeltoed combat boots or black skater shoes. She is also known to wear a black leather trenchcoat that reaches just above her ankles. She has black hair that has a purple sheen to it that is straight and stops at her waist. She has long black nails that she sharpens to a point and paints black.

Personality: Sunstar is kind of cold to most people at first, prefering to observe them before she actually goes over and introduces herself.

Rough Bio: Grew up in the town and was raised well. She was very friendly up until 5 years ago when her mother died, now she is kind of a loner, and only talks to those she deems worthy. Sunstar is an only child and doesn't have a good relationship with her father.

I'm not making this stuff up. It's like I'm watching the emo day parade as the character sheets go by. Again I didn't criticise the preson. I tend to be easy on the newbies, and she certainly tried here. But it's like the whole generation is this way.



Hmmmmm Since I'm not screwing with their chargen maybe I should be asking about how to encourage characters to develop and change over time.

Commence operation "anything but black".

[masterofm]

I'm 25.

However even though I was never really all that much of an angst driven teen I still had angst even if it was more of a side dish then the main course. There was a point in my life ten years ago that really really sucked, but hell I got on with my life and am quite happy now. I was also a latch key kid so I think it might have helped that I wasn't a pampered spoiled little brat. To me though angst is nothing new. My mother was angsty/rebelious, so was my Aunt, both my brothers who are ten and fifteen years older then me respectively. Angst is nothing new. Emo is new. Personally I view people who are still broody in their mid to late 20's are the people who are actually emo. Teens have angst, but after that whole puberty thing wares off and that amount of unnecessary self loathing does not wear off then I would probably peg them as emo. In my head adults can be emo, teens just have angst because of the awkward situation they are put in. Some people use Kurt Cobain as an emo template.

See where is the flavor of that character? Her mother died, w/o any flavor to it. Why does she hate her father? Did her father kill her mother? Did he stand back and let her die as the thief broke into their home?

Zero flavor that is why the character sucks.

[masterofm]

Let me attempt to add some flavor to this character and make her less... um... bad.

Appearance: Mary Sutherland a.k.a. Sunstar stands 5'11" with pale bright blue eyes (insert ethnicity, skin type, body build, and meta/human status.)

Growing up watching the trids on television of the hit show CyberP 2065 she became enamored with the idea of running in the shadows. She was known at the age of thirteen to be almost addicted to black (a fad which has not worn off.) During her teen years she was known only to sport black. She was always wearing black shirts, shades, pants, steeltoed combat boots, and skater shoes. She would even ware a black leather trenchcoat every once and a while. Although she was heavily mocked by many of her peers it was a lifestyle that she felt comfortable in despite being austrisized by most of her classmates. Her mother, Judy Sutherland, was a nurse who worked for Docwagon ™ was always kind and supportive to whatever kind of choices she made and helped her during those dark days in her childhood when the words became too much for her gentile soul to take. When Sunstar closes her eyes she can still remember the loving embrace her mother would give her and the sweet gentile song she used to whisper in her ears to help ease her pain.

Her father, Henry Sutherland, was a mid level security chief working for Lone Star. However he was always very critical of his daughter's behavior and would constantly make belittling remarks about how Sunstar should grow up. One day when her father had had enough of Sunstar's behavior he took off his belt, but before he could beat her Judy stayed his hand. However two weeks later an escaped convict who escaped from a Lone Star prison entered her home and brutally killed her mother while she was hiding under her bed. Her father came home two hours later after the killer escaped. Later she found out that her father had hired a team of shadowrunners to bring . Although she has never forgiven her father and suspects that he was involved with her mothers death the shadowrunner team who brought the killer to justice became her idols. It is now five years later and she gave herself the handle of sunstar as a somewhat twisted joke on Lone Star where she will bring her enemies to justice, since she knows first hand what the law is really worth.)

Sunstar is cold and slow to trust at first, prefering to observe them before she actually introduces herself. However is loyal to those who bring her comfort and are willing to help her out in a time of need.

If I had some stats I could write a better back story on how she used to train during recess to be a shadowrunner and how she was mocked, since her school was basically training her to be a wage slave later on in life a roll which she refused to accept.

You have the angst, but at least it's not lame angst. Maybe there are various versions of angst.

Mangst = manly angst
langst = lame angst
wangst = whiney angst

[Tachi]

Angst is okay if it's manly. Then it's mangst, I guess.

Example: Rambo in Rambo 3. He has angst, but then he puts it, and half the Burmese army, away.

.50 cal machine gun + angst = mangst.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

This post is overflowing with win.

[Rasumichin]

I'm not making this stuff up. It's like I'm watching the emo day parade as the character sheets go by. Again I didn't criticise the preson. I tend to be easy on the newbies, and she certainly tried here. But it's like the whole generation is this way.

OMG.
Before reading this thread, i always thought that this whole emo fad is just for show, as all the emos i know personally don't have anything remotely angsty about them, but tend to be outgoing party people who just happen to have a rather peculiar taste in music and be fond of those stupid sweat bands (which, in their cases, happen to be just a fashion statement and not a sign of self-hurting).
Are they always like this or do they just end up with such characters?

[sunnyside]

@masterofm 90% good stuff
10% http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612 (Though since I'm throwing the link DM of the Rings is made of awsome if you've had enough gaming groups to *know* these people, the rest of you can learn what not to do).

However you're right that even in keeping this short a simple reason for the bad father relationship would make him more of a useable personality and give the character a possible sore spot all in the space of maybe seven words.


@Rasumichin

There are definitly "emos" these days. I'm talking about kids who cut themselves because it's "cool". And it's quite widespread.

As a side note there have been mass beatings of emo groups in Mexico and regions of Russia are trying to outlaw the fashion and music on school ground and government buildings.
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1725839,00.html (with video)
http://www.freemuse.org/sw29040.asp

However the players aren't really emo. I think they feel like fictional characters should be emo after reading some vampire realated stuff from Ann Rice, to "Twighlight," to "Vampire Knight" (Note that my knowledge of those series is highly limited, sorry if I'm mischaracterizing them).

As a side note your friends may be something other than emo. "Scene" perhaps?

[masterofm]

I didn't really take all that much time making up the back story and just wrote as I thought it up. It took me longer writing it as it did coming up with the backstory. I.E. 2 minutes vs. 6-8 minutes.

I wanted her mother to sing this song from Hocus Pocus to her daughter, or at least that was the image I got - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsda4GJuzcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9ZFv6YzcQ...feature=related - the longer version, but it is nice when the song starts to break down in the end.


That song might bump it up to 95% awesome, since it's also a pretty decent song if you wanted to screw with the character later on.

The sad thing is I spent a while longer searching for the title of the movie then I thought I would, so that I forgot why I was looking for it... >.< Well it is a brand new day and I got some extra sleep.

[WeaverMount]

Let me attempt to add some flavor to this character and make her less... um... bad.

Appearance: Mary Sutherland a.k.a. Sunstar stands 5'11" with pale bright blue eyes (insert ethnicity, skin type, body build, and meta/human status.)

emphasis mine... for lolz

----

White Wolf is ground zero for emo gaming, and they opened there doors in 91. Emo was respectable genre of punk until around 2000. I don't know when Emo fashion/style/mannerism really caught in popular culture but if you assume it is around the time the music caught on and a little later, then emo gaming has been around for about 10 more years than people have been using emo as a derogatory

[Heath Robinson]

from Ann Rice, to "Twighlight," to "Vampire Knight" (Note that my knowledge of those series is highly limited, sorry if I'm mischaracterizing them).

to "Vampire Knight" (Note that

Vampire Knight

Walk away. It's all you can do.

[sunnyside]

Walk away. It's all you can do.

I suppose I could actually watch the series. Most anime is availible free online.

/watches a couple episodes.

1. Since when did women start finding men who look rather like women to be optimally attractive!
wiki wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen
Well. Geez. Darn it. First the queer eye guys take away our flannel and now they want us to not show off our manly body hair, square jaws, and broad shoulders. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

(Note to self, another reason to dislike the SR Japanicorps)

2. Having children in the series is a bit like saying "I'll be right back" if you're in a horror movie.

3. Apperantly not liking a girl is the new flirting.

4. Only the coolest kids are emo. Most of the cast doesn't seem to be, just the male leads Well, I guess all the vampires are a little.

[sunnyside]

emphasis mine... for lolz

That was an awsome catch. Freudian slip mayhaps masterofm?

[masterofm]

I was going for a very common name. Didn't even think about Mary Su. I was actually thinking her handle is somewhat an augmentation of her last name, and lone star. It makes sense as part of the history and ties in neatly with the characters persona. I think you should pitch this characters history to the player and see if they take a nibble at it.

My previous runner's handle was Kevin Randal if you are wondering about how some of my characters are. He was a rigger/face who was quite non-threatening, until one of his drones shot or fired a grenade at your face.

[Heath Robinson]

I suppose I could actually watch the series. Most anime is availible free online.

/watches a couple episodes.

Good heavens! What have I done?!

[sunnyside]

Good heavens! What have I done?!

*cut* *cut*

Like the lumberjack of the dinosaurs
I chop away
To prove my manliness
The red sap flows
But do I care if it stops?
Timber

[Wounded Ronin]

*cut* *cut*

Like the lumberjack of the dinosaurs
I chop away
To prove my manliness
The red sap flows
But do I care if it stops?
Timber

There is only one possible response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEDNx-JWuis

[Wounded Ronin]

More on topic, here is Van Damme attempting to portray manly martial angst. Note that this scene is the precursor to his kicking Bolo Yeung in the face with twisty kicks in the next scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KqOvPs2gw4...feature=related

It's also very Shadowrun, being an 80s orientalist American film.

[Cthulhudreams]

mangst == best call ever.