Character Depth without the Angst/Emo Options

[MaxMahem]

I don't really see the problem with letting a person play the character they want to play. I mean sure, you might find it less than ideal, or only two-dimensional, but if the player is having fun and getting what they want out of the game, why should you force them to add 'depth' they don't want to add, or become 'more creative' with their characterizations?

In my opinion, it is best to just let the player play the game the way they want to play it. Most players will evolve naturally themselves, especially when exposed to other players who put a lot of 'depth' into their own characters, or even better, a GM who isn't afraid to pour on the characterizations in the social scenes, and plays up the day-to-day life of the PCs. I don't feel that there is a need to 'teach' players to be better role-players, or force them into playing characterizations they don't really feel comfortable with, or aren't ready for themselves.

I agree with Fortune here. Players are going to play the kind of characters they want to play. Attempts to talk them out of it or into some new sort of character type is generally futile. I've got one guy in my group who always plays a maniac of some sort. Another one always plays a playboy of some sort. This is what they want to do, who am I to try and tell them to play something different?

So what should you do?
First analyze if you truly have a problem. Generally with loner emo types, the main problem that arises is that the players don't work together well and may be overly prone to backstab one another. If the players are more-or-less functional as a team, and there isn't to much intra-party mayhem that disrupts the game then there probably isn't a problem here. (Unless of course you want that kind of stuff, I don't, but to each there own).

If you are having these sorts of problems, talk with your players about it. Explain to them that for the game to work well they have to work together just a little bit. Consider having them make all there characters at once and having them share a common backstory of some sort. Give them some sort of common cause early on to unite them (having them betrayed by an employeer and out for revenge works well).

If your only problem is just that your unsatisfied with the character types, then you are probably experiencing some of these two problems:
The character types are just to bland. Give them incentives to develop a more creative backstory. Such as free karma point for ones that you really like. Get them to fill out the 20 questions (or some other equivelent). For my group I find starting each session off by asking a character an interesting question works well. I also like to do a mini-interview with the character, Pretend your Larry King and quiz the character about stuff, if possible get the player to respond IC as well.

You just don't like the character type: I completely understand what you mean, but well get over it. Yes the loner samurai who's parents, siblings, and pets are all dead may be a bit old hat, but if thats what the player wants to play, and its not disrupting your game, get over it. Your job as GM is to construct the setting and framework in which the players play, its there job to define and play the role of the actors, so let them do it. The game is (IMO) much more satisfing when players are playing characters they really want to play.

What you can do is provide some help and encouragement in game to help them grow. Have an NPC in the game befriend them. Kill off any remaining loved ones. Keep dumping drama on them until you get some positive results. You can also lead by example. Interesting NPCs can inspire characters to greater heights. Let the PCs know it's okay to steal blatantly for TV archtypes. (The emo loner often comes from a vain attempt at originality).

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But in the end you can only lead and encourage. Attempts to force the players to grow into character types you like better are bound to fail. Players are a lot like horses in this respect. You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink.

[sunnyside]

More on topic, here is Van Damme attempting to portray manly martial angst. Note that this scene is the precursor to his kicking Bolo Yeung in the face with twisty kicks in the next scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KqOvPs2gw4...feature=related

It's also very Shadowrun, being an 80s orientalist American film.

There we go.

For the record I'm trying to add "mangst" to the urban dictionary. The program is being annoying though.

[masterofm]

Or you could take their crummy 2d story and make it something bigger and ask if that was the image the character wanted. Either you take the effort or they take the effort. In the end characters should just have flavor. Something that drives them, something interesting, something someone can easily play. Saying "my character is good with guns and shoots people" is lame, saying "My character is an ex military operative who ended up losing his wife due to accidentally getting tied up in the mob and has taken years to hone his skill with a gun for hire" is something to go on. Both can be one and the same character the only difference is that there is something to go on in the second saying.

In story writing you call it show not tell. Don't tell us your character is a badass, show us. My character dresses all in black and is a cold calculating badass.... you see that there is no flavor to that? It's like eating at "Claim Jumpers" for how dry, and partially frozen the background is.

Have the person play whoever they want to play, but just have something going for the character instead of "my character is a playboy." My response would be "Fine he is a playboy now show me why."

[Fuchs]

I'd not say those backgrounds are lame or stupid - they just lack details so far, but those cna be added in game or by digging some. Most players will not have thought of possible details yet - sometimes those are hard to come up without getting reminded. By asking about possible details those can be created. Like asking the playboy if he had a woman he loved in the past, or has one he still loves, or if he fears commitment, or if he is just indecisive, juggling girlfriends, or needs the constant attention to reassure himself, etc.
The girl in black may have had a rivalry in school, or was hurt by a boyfriend, or is a fan of some poet, singer, or simsense star, or runs a fan node of such a person, worked part-time in a shop that got bought up and closed by a corp, etc. etc.

[masterofm]

You know I am the only person who has offered constructive feedback on the characters background right? I also don't think it is the players fault, because when I was a teen it was hard to write background for my characters (I just never really thought about it.) I also don't think anything a person can create is stupid, but I can believe that you can create a character concept that is completely flat and lacks any kind of originality. Sorry but if you create a character who's background is a time traveling biodrone who is here to save us from the future it's just not going to happen.

My response would be to offer a better background and work with the player from there (which it seems like I am the only person to have done this instead of implying that you should do it.) If they don't want the background that I can come up with on the spot then there is still ways to teak the concept into something they really enjoy. The key thing is work with them on the spot the minute they submit the character concept until you can find a solution you both like. I am personally interested if the person who created Sunstar would like the background I wrote for her, and the plot hook that the GM can potentially use in game.

[sunnyside]

I am personally interested if the person who created Sunstar would like the background I wrote for her, and the plot hook that the GM can potentially use in game.

I'll let you know, but you'll have to wait. I've got a 15 year old emo girl on my hands that's brand spanking new to RPGs.

Which means I'm leery of confusing or appearing to be criticizing her (I have a hard enough to trying to give constructive criticism with my 28 year old, non-emo wife).

So for now we'll try organically growing her character as the game goes on and than later I'll bring up to topic of enhancing her backstory and I'd be willing to throw in your stuff as ideas.

Side note: I'm attempting to send the emos to the beach. Not sure how that'll work out, but hopefully at least I'll be amused. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Platinum Dragon]

Nothing like blistering 45 degree days (Celcius, of course) spent in the sun to make people re-think the 'all-black' outfit. =P

[Wounded Ronin]

Have her character break a nail whenever she operates a handgun. I'm a guy but my nails have a natural ability to get long and stick out a little bit, and if I don't cut my nails before I go shooting I break 'em all the time.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Well, to be honest, I couldn't care less about what the characters write for a back story (in terms of pure role playing) and how ridiculously cliche it is. I do want them to pick a character and act in the appropriate manner though. Back story doesn't matter as much as what the player brings forth to the table.

Like I said, beginners will pick a personality that hits close to home and is within their comfort zone. If a teen plays, they'll play a character with angst, that's all there is to it. Get them playing, keep them having fun, and get them hooked and they'll eventually start playing personalities that are far removed from themselves and probably even play characters that are fun to have around. If you alienate them and harass them for what they've brought to the table, they'll just get upset and stop playing.

[Wounded Ronin]

Heh, well, practically speaking, yeah.

[sunnyside]

If you alienate them and harass them for what they've brought to the table, they'll just get upset and stop playing.

Yeah. That's why I'm playing with the kid gloves on. I mean they're emo to start with. To much "constructive criticism" and I have to clean blood off the fragging furniture.


So far I'm having some fun success by trying to recruit some more confident males and perky females and then throwing them at the emos.

I'm not entirely sure if the emos are becoming less emo. But it's hillarious at any rate, and, really, that's enough for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Stahlseele]

*snickers*
i imagine some barbie blondes trying to talk about their my little pony stuff with some emos now ^^