Tachikoma!, Thinktank Idea from Arsenal Options

[Falconer]

I just noticed this... but was curious for feedback on this one... since it seems so silly, yet so right...

While noticing that the Evo Orderly lost the humanoid descriptor in the errata and looking at it's picture on p120. It looks like a Walker mode wheelchair.. Sort of like one of those floating wheelchairs all the fat people in Wall-E rode around in.

It struck me that you could conceivably modify it into something very akin to the GitS thinktanks....

It starts with
2 Mechanical Arms!!,
Built in Medkit 6
Walker Mode

all good. Avail of 4, and a mere 2000 (even better). 4 mod spots.....

1mod, Armor 9 (we see bullets bouncing off them in the series)
1mod, Chameleon Coating (they have thermoptic camo)
1mod, Gecko Tips (yes they qualify, medium drone. We see the thinktanks climbing up and down vertical surfaces)
Drumroll....
1mod, Rigger Coccoon (climb in the back for 20 armor goodness to use your Command program like a pro while the drone might not survive you probably will).

If you go another step... "At the GM's discretion, full mechanical arms can be equipped with accessories just like a full cyberlimb"... well that opens the door for a cybergun or two or cybergyros, and just pickup and use normal weapons w/ the mechanical arms).

Thoughts... feedback... better ideas for a blatant ripoff of the Tachikoma

[Jaid]

i wouldn't go with rigger cocoon... they clearly are AIs, not rigged anyways =P

this would free up 1 mod slot for something interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jekolmy]

They do have the AI, but there are definitely episodes (1st season, episode 2 for an example) where the human characters are inside the Tachikoma.
Maybe instead of pulling the rigger cocoon, you could pull the medkit, as we also see the others putting people into the Tachikoma's for safekeeping at least temporarily... so maybe a rigger cocoon with restricted access?

I have to say you did a better job than me of using something existing in SR to build the Tachikomas.

[Uli]

I, too, thought about Tachikomas, but my solution was the following:

- Steel Lynx (Big enough to carry a human, great speed, body 4, armor 9, and a built-in turret for their gun - maybe a custom modified machinegun with underbarrel grenade launcher?)
- 1 slot for Chameleon Choating
- 1 slot for a Rigger Cocoon
- 2 slots for the Walker Mode
- And all upgrades you can get for sensors, Pilot and autosofts

I'm not so sure about that medkit - when do the Tachis provide medical attention, assistance or at least equipment?

[Tachi]

1mod, Gecko Tips (yes they qualify, medium drone. We see the thinktanks climbing up and down vertical surfaces)

Didn't the tachkomas shoot some kind of line to climb with?

[Heath Robinson]

Didn't the tachkomas shoot some kind of line to climb with?

Yes, but that was for fast ascents. They are shown walking on surfaces perpendicular to gravity without using their lines. I can't remember which episode number precisely, but it was the one where Section 9 was chasing the cloned South American guerilla.

[Neraph]

Maybe the second version of the Rigger cocoon, the one with the Valkyrie Module?

[Neraph]

And more than likely, they had free machine Sprites in them. The lines could be specially designed grapple guns.

[DocTaotsu]

I think a steel lynx is a better chassis for a Tachikoma. Heavier armor, bigger guns, etc.

Although honestly, Tachikoma's are even bigger than that... Steel Lynx are only what, about as big as a person? Maybe a Red Samurai would be a better choice.

[Jaid]

medium drones are about human sized. it stands to reason that large drones are larger than human size.

and if you want people inside the tachikoma, then you're gonna need an access point, not a rigger coccoon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jekolmy]

An access point from my understanding though is just a quick way in and out... not necessarily the only point of accessing the inside (if of course the drone/vehicle is meant to be access).

So that huge Tachikoma in episode 2 is a vehicle instead of a drone?

On a weapons note a malicious corp (GM) might consider hydraulic pincers on those arms.

[Stahlseele]

that was not a tachicoma, that was the equivalent of a main battle tank . .
or more exactly, the SR Behemoth in the GitS World . .

[hobgoblin]

iirc, the ai of the tachicoma's where highly experimental.

and they where more like armored cars then tanks, given how one got chewed to bits by a gunship helicopter gun in season 2.

and later in season 2 i think one got yelled at for putting itself i harms way while carrying someone, meaning its not 100% impervious to small arms fire (or the odd rpg).

i would put no more then a assault rifle or LMG inside one of their arms, but assault cannons, rocket launchers or HMG based miniguns would fit nicely as a fixed hardpoint in their body.

as for the lines they shoot, i would say stealth rope with a catalyst stick built into the launcher.

[Jekolmy]

While we are on the tpoic of vehicles here is the Citymaster in the BBB more like an APC than an actual MBT (Main Battle Tank)?

[hobgoblin]

yep. SR4 do not have stats for MBT's, as they attempt to keep the game closer to street.

still, if you can nail a heavy gauss cannon to a vehicle, it may be a light MBT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[WeaverMount]

iirc, the ai of the tachicoma's where highly experimental.

and they where more like armored cars then tanks, given how one got chewed to bits by a gunship helicopter gun in season 2.

and later in season 2 i think one got yelled at for putting itself i harms way while carrying someone, meaning its not 100% impervious to small arms fire (or the odd rpg).

i would put no more then a assault rifle or LMG inside one of their arms, but assault cannons, rocket launchers or HMG based miniguns would fit nicely as a fixed hardpoint in their body.

as for the lines they shoot, i would say stealth rope with a catalyst stick built into the launcher.

They said to have 2 LMGs (one in each arm) and a heavier center mounted weapon, usually a grenade launcher, but there was that time they put a cannon on one.
If I had to stat that in SR turns I'd have linked SMGs in the arms, allow the center mount to hold a heavy weapon.

[DocTaotsu]

The arm weapons should definitely be nothing heavier than an assault rifle, probably closer to an SMG. Those arms were used mostly for jacking up people on foot, laying down some mobile suppressing fire

[psychophipps]

Tachikoma would have to be at least Large sized as the team often has members riding in them in the original GitS manga. Also, looking at the way they're drawn in relation to other objects a Tachicoma is about the size of a small subcompact car with a boxy back. If I had to call an actual car for reference it would probably be the old Ford Spirit or Geo Metro.

[hobgoblin]

or maybe a wv beetle or mini cooper with legs.

as for their armament, i dont recall there being a grenade launcher, but i do recall seeing one with a minigun.

still, the diff between a grenade launcher and a short barreled cannon is a small one. you just alter the powder change depending on how you want the projectile to behave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Coldhand Jake]

I had a character working on this in game once, I'll post what I had for the work here later.

[psychophipps]

or maybe a wv beetle or mini cooper with legs.

still, the diff between a grenade launcher and a short barreled cannon is a small one. you just alter the powder change depending on how you want the projectile to behave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A VW Beetle is quite a bit larger than a Mini Cooper.

Except that a light autocannon round can't be designed to create an effective 15m casualty radius due to size constraints? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Besides, a minigun and a gatling-style cannon are in totally different realms of firepower despite them working similarly.

[Falconer]

On the steel lynx and whatnot... most drones don't carry passengers. p102 Arsenal. They're also not walkers and are limited to 4 modslots (and using half of them for a walker had me write them off). Originally this started out as a thought of how can I make an armored mini-tank for a rigger to act like a street sam and accompany the party while in full VR for meatspace IP's.

One of the reasons I hopped on this one was because it's a medium walking wheelchair (ironically the actual wheelchair is a 'small' drone on the prior page! so much for small drones can't carry passengers). So I thought... okay we just, put the rigger cocoon around the normal seat area and we're good, even if it isn't the tachi style drivers compartment. The orderly probably makes a better 'combat medic' drone than the crashcart come to think of it... equip it with the valkyrie module and some armor, it's already a walker w/ better mobility and it's arms allow it to fight while waiting for a 'patient'.

I'm sure an actual tachikoma is more akin to a small military vehicle. The idea was to use something in the book and get reasonably close in features. Getting 3 weapon mounts in w/ only 4 mod points on top of everything else plus the cocoon... kinda rough.

When I think tachikoma I think...
Walker Mobility (w/ secondary wheels for higher speed roadwork... but we can ignore that)
2 Mechanical Arms
Pilot Compartment
Thermoptic Camo (chameleon system, Special Armor upgrade (Thermal Damping))
Body Stabilzer (they're quite gymnastic)
Gecko Tips (medium drone or smaller only, w/ a nod to them not working well on larger ones)
3 Weapon Mounts min (concievably you could use SMG cyberguns in the mechanical arms instead of full fledged weapon mounts)
Those nifty rope launchers (great idea for the stealth rope, or a modified super squirt firing spider silk)... almost another 1 or 2 weapon mounts
Actual AI NPC's inhabiting them instead of a pilot program (or a satellite meaning now you add a satlink mod)
Missing anything?!

Glancing at other drones and small vehicles....
Mitsuhama Beaver
Horseman PMV (advanced cargo model, has one arm, only body 6.. 4 after walker mode)
Thundercloud Contrail (bike yeah, but 10 mod slots, 6 for walker + 2 full arms, leaves 4 left)
Saving the best for last
Mitsuhama Tomino!!!! (my oh my a winner)


Assuming making the Tomino go from humanoid to 'spideroid' is mostly a cosmetic change (it's still a walker, all ti's other vital statistics dont' change it's merely cosmetic)
With 10 mod slots.. I think the Tomino can actually get the entire list, while carrying a massive amount of armor.
Built-in:
2 Arms, Stabilizer(2), Walker, NanoMaintenance(2), Touch Sensors
Add-ons:
Cocoon(1), WeaponMounts (2, super squirt(silk), 1 unused), Gecko (1), Armor(1, rating20), Special Armor(1, Thermal), Chameleon(1), Satcom(1)
2 CyberSMG's (dual feed, 2x 100rd drums)

I'm up to 8 mods w/ 2 left. You could make the squirt flexible rather than fixed forward giving it limited indepbendant aiming ability. You could also make the unused mount a 'heavy mount' allowing it to take some of the bigger vehicle weapons (Aztechnology gauss cannon anyone? :). Max of 3 weapon mounts for Body 9-11 scores...

[Jaid]

the access point is to get you inside the drone. if you put a rigger coccoon on a tomino, that's basically like the tomino having a sack stapled to it's torso with you inside. if you put an extra entry point (for a total of 1) then you can sit inside the tomino (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[psychophipps]

I like the Tomino idea but I would rule that the cyber SMGs can be ARs due to the vehicles Large size. A small car doesn't have puny little human arms, after all, unless you're shooting for the T-Rex look.

And the T-Rex look is sooo not sexy on a badass combat drone/vehicle...

[Falconer]

Jaid:
How much does it matter having an access point, when your riggers armor is 20/20 from the cocoon plus whatever he's wearing (another 10 points or so). Get him inside the vehicle is what another 10-20. After a point... enough is enough. Even if it is an 'armored backpack'.

But your point is taken for making a true lookalike. Makes me wonder how much a frame modification would be for a passenger seat. But that's in the realm of GM fun.


Pipps:
You might be right... but for SR purposes a SMG is fine.

I'm just having fun with this anyhow. I'm currently not involved in any games :(.


But anyhow, from wikipedia:
Standard Tachikoma equipment includes a 7.62x51mm light machine gun mounted in the right arm, a secondary weapon hardpoint in the "snout" (usually a 50mm grenade launcher, capable of launching both explosive and gas grenades, but which can be replaced by a six-barrelled 12.7x99mm Gatling gun)[5], a universal cybernetic connector on an extensible, prehensile cable in the left arm, liquid wires that can be used for grappling, rappelling or for restraining purposes and a built-in thermoptic camouflage system[7].

So looks like it is a MMG (not LMG) in one arm only... I always thought it was both, guess I was wrong. And the .50cal gatling is practically the vehicle heavy mount light autocannon.

It also says something about Fuchikoma from the manga (never read the manga)... anyone know what the differences are?