Recruiting: The spirits within, Free spirit only game Options

[Karaden]

Oh, crud... I totally forgot about that. Darn, I'll have to take off an initiation and reclaim some power points.

[crizh]

I did exactly the same thing in my draft.

I'm hoping we will be allowed to use the buying Metamagics optional rule....

[Play]

For a free spirit:

You start with all stats at two, including edge and force. Max for any stat is equal to your force (Which has a max of 6). You start with a number of power points equal to your edge. Initiation raises your max force by 1 and gives you either a metamagic or a power point.

Didn't Dentris say we didn't get points over 6 for initing? So if we inited 4 times, our magic would be maxed at 6. I need to find where he said that, have been thinking that Force stays maxed at 6 too.

[BlackHat]

They're maxed at six. Initiating only raises your racial maximum.

So, if you don't put any points into force/magic it is a 2 and you can only initiate twice.

If you put a bunch, and get force/magic of 6, you can initiate up to six times, raising your MAXIMUM force/magic to 12 - but you still can't go above a 6 to start.

[crizh]

Nearly done.

Dang, twelve isn't a lot of spells.

[Karaden]

Nearly done.

Dang, twelve isn't a lot of spells.

True, but there are alot fewer spells that are useful for a spirit. Improved reflexes is of minimal value since we already get 3 passes in astral and 2 in physical. Heal isn't really useful because physical damage is hard to inflict on us (Except through spells... not sure if those can be healed or not)

Heck, my most expensive power, regeneration, is almost purly for RP as it'll serve no actual use in the game since I'm either immune to it or it can't be regenerated.

[Play]

Heck, my most expensive power, regeneration, is almost purly for RP as it'll serve no actual use in the game since I'm either immune to it or it can't be regenerated.

In that we can't heal on our home metaplane because we can't get to it, a spirit with materialization and Regeneration should be able to heal completely, yes?

Say a bit more about what you mean when you say 'it can't be regenerated'.

[crizh]

Damage from Magical Sources of any sort cannot be Regenerated.

[Karaden]

In that we can't heal on metaplane, a spirit with materialization and Regeneration should be able to heal completely, yes?

Say a bit more about what you mean when you say 'it can't be regenerated'.

Perhaps most notable among things that regeneration can't heal: Spells.

Certain types of damage cannot be regenerated from this power. Damage to the brain or spinal cord (for example, from a called shot to the head) cannot be healed this way. Likewise, magical damage from weapon foci, combat spells, critter/adept powers, or other magic may not be healed through Regeneration.

So, stack that with immunity to normal weapons with minimum armor of 12. Either I'm immune to it automatically or Regeneration doesn't work on it. I suppose damage from astral combat is still healed, which means it could still be useful.

Of course if the GM is willing to make a concession on what my regeneration can heal since I -am- a free spirit as opposed to a regular critter, then it could be very useful and well worth the 5 power points it costs. Otherwise I'm still happy with it being the reason I have so many followers, given that I can bring them from the brink of death to perfect health within a few seconds by possessing them.

Edit: And yes, I know there are things that can get past my immunity to normal weapons like high powered sniper rifles and such, but even those would have alot of trouble if the person/thing I'm inhabiting has armor. And heck, in my plasteel homonculi I think I'm safe from anything short of a nuke.

[Play]

Yeah, for 5 powerpoints, it's only good for healing stab wounds from normal weapons, which can't hurt a spirit. Hmmmm.

[crizh]

The ability to heal anybody that you Possess is pure gold however.

[Karaden]

Exactly. Now, it -would- be useful if my force wasn't so high, but if I don't have high force, I wouldn't be able to get the power points needed for the power.

It is very true that it has massive benefits for those I possess (Which is more or less why I got it) but it is largely an exceptionally expensive RP tool, as I could have explained my cult in a number of other ways. Regeneration combined with a Health Pact makes me a very desirable spirit to be on the better side of though, as that level of healing is greatly desired by even the most powerful of people. So I have excelent things to offer in trade/barter and such. It is however for me personally not exceptionally useful. I mean compare what I get from it as compared to say the ability to summon a hurricane on short notice.

Ah well, as I said, RP tool and I'm happy with it even if it doesn't provide a big direct benefit.

[Cthulhudreams]

I'm seriously expecting large numbers of sniper rifles with APDS.

Heck, I'm thinking about taking a sniper rifle with ADPS and scrapping automatics. ADPS beats spirits, wins game.

[Play]

I'm gonna drop mine if I can't use it to heal damage I take in astral combat, from getting hit with a spell, etc.

[Play]

I'm seriously expecting large numbers of sniper rifles with APDS.

Heck, I'm thinking about taking a sniper rifle with ADPS and scrapping automatics. ADPS beats spirits, wins game.

That's dumb. (That ADPS wins, but regular ammo don't.)

[Cthulhudreams]

Well, it is only because the modified DV of the sniper rifles in the game then exceeds 12, enabling them to actually kill spirits.

[Karaden]

Well, it is only because the modified DV of the sniper rifles in the game then exceeds 12, enabling them to actually kill spirits.

Not this spirit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Of course that 12 isn't taking into account if wearing any actual armor.

[crizh]

I've only got gear to do atm although the build still depends on what rules are allowed.

I've included a number of custom spells based on existing spells and I've got one totally unique spell that fits nicely with the Psionic tradition that I'd like to propose.

[ Spoiler ]

Shield

Combining the best qualities of Deflection and Physical Barrier this Spell creates a field that re-routes incident energy away from the target.

The field has a low-pass impulse filter which permits a low level of kinetic or electromagnetic energy to pass through it unchanged allowing the target to interact normally with his environment. Any energy incident on the barrier with a greater impulse than this maximum has all it's excess energy diverted away from the target. All damage to the target that exceeds a base DV of 6 has it's DV reduced to 6 + (DV-6)/(2+hits/3(round down)).

The field forms a variable distance, controlled by the target, up to a foot, from the targets skin. This has the side-effect of reducing the targets effective Strength for calculating Unarmed Melee DV by Hits to a minimum of 6.

Drain: Force/2 + 3

It works very much like the Shields described in the Dune books. It is quite powerful as is, I've adjusted it by raising the number I divided the hits by to three in an effort to balance it with similar spells.

edit - changed to reflect subsequent discussion.

[Karaden]

Few things. First off it should be hits/3 round down, otherwise there is no reason to cast a force 6 instead of a force 4.

Second off, it is more powerful than the armor spell which has the same drain. Armor spell grants 1 armor per hit, which translates into an average of 1 less DV per 3 hits. Your spell however guarantees 1 + hits/3 reduced DV, and isn't affected by AP. I realize you've tried to balance it slightly via the reduced strength for unarmed combat, but that seems like too small of a penalty (Since armed melee combat and ranged weapons still work fine) for the extra benefits it provides.

Overall I like it, except that it overlaps with armor. I'd think if you took off the 1+ part and changed it to round down it would be fine, but of course I'm not the GM here.

[crizh]

I put in the 1+ because there was no point casting it below Force 3.

Without the round up it would still be pointless below Force 3.

Current Formula works out at:

Force 1-3 - Half Damage

Force 4-6 - One Third Damage

Force 7-9 - One Quarter Damage

etc

The point is really to cap damage values rather than to eliminate damage.

I suppose I could rework it to do that more directly, say capping DV's at 12-hits but that seems a bit unilateral.

Another possibility is to actually put a low pass filter into the formula.

It lets through an amount of impulse that a meta-human body could reasonably be expected to absorb without serious harm.

Say, for the sake of argument, that a DV of 6 is reasonable then you could reduce DV by:

(DV - 6) - (DV - 6)/(2+{hits/3})

Actually I like that last formula the best. It accurately represents the effect and is nicely balanced with other similar spells.

edit - changed original post

[DireRadiant]

Wouldn't variants of Armor or Deflection spells limited to Bullets be close enough to simulate the effect you want?

And in case you argue it isn't close enough, you missed out the piece of what happens when a laser hits your shield.

[Karaden]

Wow, I was misreading what you had originally intended, you wanted it way more powerful then what I thought it was.

It's still giving a really big reduction in damage. I mean at force 4 against a DV 12 attack, it lowers the DV by a rather impressive 3. An armor spell (Which has the same drain) of the same force however would only reduce the DV by 1.33 (as an average roll).

Now granted Shield is useless against anything DV 6 and lower, but it only needs a DV 8 attack to be as good as an armor spell at force 4.

So yeah, still seems really overpowered to me, especially since net hits count towards the DV and are thus also affected by this spell.

Perhaps you could work it like this:
1-2 hits: no bonus
3-5 hits: -1 DV of the weapon (To a minimum of 0)
6-8 hits: -2 DV of the weapon (To a minimum of 0)
9-11 hits: -3 DV of the weapon (To a minimum of 0)
etc.

This makes it a less random chance version of the armor spell. You give up the chance to roll for better hits, but you also don't have to risk rolling badly on your armor test.

Yours just nullifies high powered attacks way too much. I mean a force 4 Shield could drop a DV of 20 to a DV of 14. Now granted DV of 20 isn't exactly common, but your looking at a massive change for an absurdly low force spell.

[crizh]

Yours just nullifies high powered attacks way too much. I mean a force 4 Shield could drop a DV of 20 to a DV of 14. Now granted DV of 20 isn't exactly common, but your looking at a massive change for an absurdly low force spell.

This is unfortunately precisely the point.

Fluff-wise and mechanically there is nothing wrong with it, it's just a case of working smarter rather than harder, as Deflection is. The problem is game balance.

The point is to be the opposite of Physical Barrier.

Physical Barrier is very effective at the low end but is easily overwhelmed and makes the target invulnerable to small amounts of damage.

Shield should be useless at the very low end, cannot be overwhelmed and effectively caps the amount of damage any one attack can inflict on the target.

Hopefully those numbers represent a good balance point. It is a question of resources. Resources spent on Shield are resources not spent on resisting damage, whether by using Armour, Deflection, Combat Reflexes, Camouflage or simply by raising Body and Ballistic/Impact Armour. You could, of course, do both but then you are skimping somewhere else...

The original point was that I felt that traditionally defences in SR relied to much on brute resistance which led to a 'we use more explosives' mentality when approaching 'powerful' opposition and made things that PC's really ought to fear far too vulnerable to said mentality.

It's like the old wives tale about the Oak and the Reed I suppose.

[crizh]

you missed out the piece of what happens when a laser hits your shield.

"kinetic or electromagnetic"

(or was that a cleverly concealed Dune gag?)

[Karaden]

Hopefully those numbers represent a good balance point. It is a question of resources. Resources spent on Shield are resources not spent on resisting damage, whether by using Armour, Deflection, Combat Reflexes, Camouflage or simply by raising Body and Ballistic/Impact Armour. You could, of course, do both but then you are skimping somewhere else...

The trouble is that shield is more useful than any of those other options. I've already pointed out how Shield is significantly better against anything with a DV of 8 or higher than armor. The thing is that virtually every single method you pointed out gives you the following advantage: 1 extra die to resist something per hit, which translates into 1 extra resist per three hits. The Shield spell on the other hand transforms four hits into the very very easy potential for 3-4+ resists.

The spell is all the more powerful when you consider the setting your bringing it into. Spirt: immune to damage under 12, Shield: ensures that it is impossible to get damage over 12.

I mean if you cast Shield at force 7 and got the 7 hits, you'd have to be hit with an attack with DV of 27 for it to break your immunity to normal weapons. Heck, even if you kept it at the very easily obtainable force of 4 you would need to get hit with a DV 20 attack.

Also, I noticed that you changed it to round down, but just added 2 to the base number so it is exactly the same as leaving the base alone and rounding up.