Coming effects of rising magic levels, What to expect in the next decades of SR timeline Options

[Wanderer]

As the title says, we all know that the magic level of the SR world is steadily rising on a pseudo-wave function and by all evidence can be expected to do so until a certain very unpleasant kind of trans-dimensional immigrant will show up in a couple of millennia. We already have seem the Awakening, Goblinization, the rise of Magicians and (Mystic) Adepts, Dragons, Changelings, Drakes, the Infected, Initiation, Invae, Shedim, opening of Metaplanes, Shapeshifters, and non-metahuman sentients. Since the magic level is going to keep rising in the next 2-3 decades, which so-far unseen effects do you expect by 2100 ? The appearance of the missing Earthdawn races (reptile-men and rock-men), bodily travel into the Astral, and teleportation or resurrection spells all seem likely possibilities.

[KCKitsune]

I would not go so far as to say Resurrection spells would be possible, but Teleportation... yup. I would also say the reliable (as much as possible) precognition may be in the horizon.

[TheOOB]

As far as we know, resurrection and space/time altering spells are outright impossible. While it is true the magic is getting a little stronger over time(possibly just because initiation becomes more common) there are some very powerful magicians out there, including many spirits and great dragons who have lived since the fourth world. If teleportation and ressurection was at all possible, you think they would know about it.

[KCKitsune]

If teleportation and ressurection was at all possible, you think they would know about it.

Who's to say that they don't already know how to teleport and just don't want to give out THAT little bit of info?

Honestly, the only reason that Shadowrun doesn't allow Teleport is because a 'Run becomes SOOOOOOO much easier if when you get the paydata, you and your crew just teleport out.

[TheOOB]

Honestly, the only reason that Shadowrun doesn't allow Teleport is because a 'Run becomes SOOOOOOO much easier if when you get the paydata, you and your crew just teleport out.

Isn't that a good enough reason?

Besides, that restriction does make sense, true teleportation(as opposed to simply moving incredibly fast or turning into a gaseous substance or something) would require messing about in four dimensional space, which is fair to say magic can't do.

[pbangarth]

I just re-read "Into the Shadows", and in the 2050's milieu in that book there already are mages (well, one beautiful, scary one anyway) that demonstrate magical power way beyond the levels shown in the BBB. One would assume that as the mana level rises, it will be easier for others to attaain that kind of power.

Peter

[Ravor]

I'm fine with not allowing "true" teleoportation, but remember that you get the same basic deal with entering the Astral physically or even better, the Metaplanar Shortcut.

However I think it is a moot point, the Horrors are coming sooner rather than later, remember that the Bug Spirits are one of the later signs pointing to the coming Scrouge.

[Hagga]

For Teleportation, I know Harlequin and Ehran could pull that dirty trick of the LIghtbringers where they jump physically into astral space. Perhaps people will puzzle it out. Resurrection can't occur because Death got out of His little hole in the Death Sea where the passions trapped him in the 4th world.

[Wanderer]

For Teleportation, I know Harlequin and Ehran could pull that dirty trick of the Lightbringers where they jump physically into astral space. Perhaps people will puzzle it out. Resurrection can't occur because Death got out of His little hole in the Death Sea where the passions trapped him in the 4th world.

As for Astral Space, the Lightbringers's ability to enter it bodily (and IIRC another high-end spell could duplicate it) is one strong reason why I expect such power to be eventually duplicated by SR mainstream Awakened as the mana level steadily rises. After all, the IE were consistently shown to be able and pull somewhat more impressive magical tricks than the current mana level would allow everyone else, thanks to their superior expertise.

As for Resurrection, I always was rather skeptic that Death's imprisonment under the Death Sea was literal factual truth rather than mythic metaphor for a rather more ineffable deal/compromise/standoff between the Powers That Be. Anyway, there is strong circumstantial evidence that the Fourth Cycle's Passions are largely gone and forgotten, likely diminished or exiled to the farthest corners of the Metaplanes, and only able to stage a once-in-a-blue-moon temporary comeback through the mediation of the few that remember them, the IE and the GD, as it happened in Harlequin's Back. Death, too, was a Passion. But in the Sixth World, other powers have risen to the fore (or the same primeval archetypal forces have dooned all-new masks) as the Mentor Spirits. So probably the game of life, death, and eventually resurrection plays by slightly different rules this Cycle. Not entirely different, as the lore necessary for creating Cyberzombies is told to have come from the previous Cycle. Anyway, the very fact that cyberzombiedom is already possible so early in this cycle indicates that probably true resurrection is not so far down the line, since major manipulation of the body-spirit lnk is already possible.

[NetWraith]

After all, the IE were consistently shown to be able and pull somewhat more impressive magical tricks than the current mana level would allow everyone else, thanks to their superior expertise.

IIRC, the IE's (such as Harly and Ehran for example) actually cast magic differently than the mages now adays. As far as rules go, SR magic is totally different than ED magic. In ED they used a spell matrix to hide thier magic from the Horrors. This is all from memory, as I don't have the ED books(friend actually ran that), and from AH's wiki. So I could be wrong on this.

[Hagga]

Perhaps current magic will, after the horrors, become more like ED magic.

Of course, given the way metahumanity is going they're all going to have Ysgraith screaming "OM NOM NOM" and eating them.

[AllTheNothing]

I would not go so far as to say Resurrection spells would be possible, but Teleportation... yup. I would also say the reliable (as much as possible) precognition may be in the horizon.

Resurrection is doable but not as a spell (limits of sorcery) but as an astral quest. Find a spirit with gateway power, reach the death metaplane, find the soul, free the soul and return. Than you need a new body: use a pimp(must be a clone of the person that you whant to resurrect), put the soul in it cast an heal spell on it's head, the presence of the soul combined whit healing magic binds the soul to the body and repaires the brain.

Teleportation no (limits of sorcery) but a metamagic that allowes to dematerialize your body and travel trough the astral plane is not too improbable.

Precognition is already in in the form of combat sense and divining metamagic; in what consist your precognition?

[AllTheNothing]

As for Resurrection, I always was rather skeptic that Death's imprisonment under the Death Sea was literal factual truth rather than mythic metaphor for a rather more ineffable deal/compromise/standoff between the Powers That Be.

The Corps control Death too? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Sorry I couldn't resist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

what do you think cybermancy is?
your spirit decides to let your body die, and the cybermancers tell it to stay put so you do not die O.o
granted, not really ressurection, but close enough to ethernal unlife . .

[Hagga]

The Corps control Death too? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Sorry I couldn't resist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

He was fired by every one of the big ten. They all hired him, one after another, and ordered him to kill the CEO of other megacorps. He refused and is now lying in a gutter in the barrens slotting BTLs and touching himself with rats over pictures of Nadja Daviar.

[hobgoblin]

one can speculate that spirits of man is basically ghosts...

get that old body, have a summoned spirit of man inhabit it, presto, resurrection (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

and lets not forget about those pesky shedim...

[Stahlseele]

hmm . . possession is 90% of the law . . does that make shedim lawyers? O.o

[TheOOB]

what do you think cybermancy is?
your spirit decides to let your body die, and the cybermancers tell it to stay put so you do not die O.o
granted, not really ressurection, but close enough to ethernal unlife . .

I'm pretty sure the focal point of the entire cybermancy section in arsenal is that cyberzombies don't have a very high life expectancy if you can even call it living in the first place.

[Stahlseele]

they don't keep you ALIVE per say . . they forbid you to die from too much cyber, is all O.o
you still die if someone decides that the bit of gray matter would compliment this bullet just nice

[TheOOB]

Heck even in the geneware section of augmentation they pretty much say that despite all the age prevention advances that have been made, when the brain wants to die, it dies and there isn't anything you can do about it.

[KCKitsune]

Resurrection is doable but not as a spell (limits of sorcery) but as an astral quest. Find a spirit with gateway power, reach the death metaplane, find the soul, free the soul and return. Than you need a new body: use a pimp(must be a clone of the person that you whant to resurrect), put the soul in it cast an heal spell on it's head, the presence of the soul combined whit healing magic binds the soul to the body and repaires the brain.

Teleportation no (limits of sorcery) but a metamagic that allowes to dematerialize your body and travel trough the astral plane is not too improbable.

Precognition is already in in the form of combat sense and divining metamagic; in what consist your precognition?

I consider precognition the ability to look in the future. Combat Sense is not precog. Heck look at the power description:

Combat Sense provides an instinctive sense about an area and any potential threats nearby.

Nothing in that statement leads me to say "looking in the future"

[TheOOB]

Even diving is just looking at the present and using it to make a magically aided guess as to what the future holds.

[WeaverMount]

He refused and is now lying in a gutter in the barrens slotting BTLs and touching himself with rats over pictures of Nadja Daviar.

What about slotting phantom of the opera + rat love'n?
Jump to 2:22

[Xiaan]

Magic in Earthdawn and magic in Shadowrun are not really all that different. (I've spent a good deal of time with both systems... well just getting into fourth edition sr but i digress)...
In Earthdawn magicians Usually cast spells by memory yes, but in a specific way that was intended to keep from alerting Horrors and from suffering from the ill effects of casting RAW spells. RAW casting is basically eactlly like Shadowrun magic. Magician casts a spell from he knows, channeling mana directly from the astral plain into himself and as a result of the unfiltered mana flow takes damage, stun in some cases physical in others. Just depended upon the Circle (or power) of the spell cast. However that line of casting wasn't recomended, astral space was muddied even then more than now (relatively speaking) the horrors did a number on the background count and subsequently RAW casting was draining as hell and could allert a nearby (any Horror that's looking in that direction really). To combat that mages used matrixes, they stored spell formul and "threaded" the active parts of the spells into them peice by peice to bypass the drain and the surge that casting caused on the astral. Anyways Shadowrun style casting was possible with the ED rules. In SR however the pressence of the horrors and although it's rapidly becomeing toxic everwhere the native state of the astral plain hasn't nessesitated the shift in casting ritual. That I see happening as soon as the vile evils start ariving. In fact there are hints to ED spellcasting in cannon lit... i'll look it up but it's recent enough...

[AngelisStorm]

I expect at some point there will be a (high drain) spell that can rip a hole into the Astral. Hop through, and repeat process at the other end. A little like Porte magic, but hopefully without the Universe bleeding (and screaming) so much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)