Background count, For the discerining non-cyberzombie Options

[Chrysalis]

Is it possible for a PC to have a permanent negative background count?

I can't seem to find it in any of the books.

-Chrysalis

[AllTheNothing]

Is it possible for a PC to have a permanent negative background count?

I can't seem to find it in any of the books.

-Chrysalis

PC having a permanent negative background?
What you mean, negative astral hazing? If so I don't think so; but if you mean creating a zone of negative background Street Magic (at least I think it's there) has some awakened plant that produces mana ebbs.

[TheOOB]

For all intents and purposes, positive backround count is identical to negative backround count except that positive backround count can be aspected(though it has been noted that the backround count from the astral hazing quality and a cyberzombies aura cannot be aspected to a tradition)

[Chrysalis]

The astral hazing quality is what I am talking about.

[Glyph]

It's one of the SURGE negative metagenetic qualities from Runner's Companion. Page 116.

[AllTheNothing]

So with negative background you meant a background that hinders it own creator along everyone else?

[Hagga]

You could carry around haven lillies. Just ask your gm is you can grow them flattened in your armour or something with a special nutrient system for an obscene amount of money. Yay, -2 mana ebb.

[Cthulhudreams]

There is a 'negative' quality in runners companion that gives you an R4 background count.

It is not a disadvantage. I strongly suggest making it a positive quality and cost 10 BP instead of a negative quality and giving you 10 BP.

[Kurious]

If astral hazing didn't have an area effect, and didn't get worse as you remained still, sure.

Though, I guess if you are always on the move with a lot of 'ware to keep mages and other awakened things from noticing you- it could be utilized as a (mostly) positive quality.

[Cthulhudreams]

The area of effect is an advantage, not a disadvantage - if someone someones a force 6 spirit and said spirit tries to get you, its going to be force 2 and much less threatening, and any starting mage with magic 6 near you is actually unable to cast spells.

It is a very powerful effect, if your a mundane character. You make it much more difficult to heal you, and a bit easier to track you in return for huge protection and benefits when combating mages - who are the main threat to a mundane character.

[pbangarth]

Yes, but don't expect any friendly Awakened to stand anywhere near you... or come to your aid...or use their spirits to help you...or ....

Peter

[Cthulhudreams]

Sure, but as I point out that just, really, costs you access to the 'heal' spell, while you gain a huge defense against pretty much all magic.

Its certainly better than magic resistance, and that is a positive quality!

Damnit, compare it to arcane arrestor - thats worse in virtually all situations and is a 25BP positive quality.

[TheOOB]

Sure, but as I point out that just, really, costs you access to the 'heal' spell, while you gain a huge defense against pretty much all magic.

Its certainly better than magic resistance, and that is a positive quality!

Damnit, compare it to arcane arrestor - thats worse in virtually all situations and is a 25BP positive quality.

Yes, screwing over your own allied magic users, and sticking out like a sore thumb on the astral making you at best an annoyance and at worst an enemy of every awakened being around you. That's totally a good quality.

[Cthulhudreams]

I dunno about you, but in a combat situation in which its perfectly reasonable someone will throw a hand grenade, I don't like to stand next to anyone else.

But obviously YMMV. I'd suggest trying it out though, you're gaining 35 BP and some more flexibility by taking it over arcane arrestor. Its obviously only good on focused mundane characters mind, but hey.

[TheOOB]

Meh, I still don't link being completely unable to use stealth if there are any patrolling spirits around.

[Cthulhudreams]

You cannot normally as a mundane - they can see you on the astral and you as a mundane have no defense against that at all aside from physically interposing cover such as a wall between you and them, which still works here.

Not that that would matter at all of course, because as you cannot see them, you have no idea where they are, and thus no way to hide from them.

[Tachi]

I dunno about you, but in a combat situation in which its perfectly reasonable someone will throw a hand grenade, I don't like to stand next to anyone else.

Minimum 5 meter intervals folks, 10 is better. Prevents one grenade from killing more than one person. Standard military procedure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

Meh, I still don't link being completely unable to use stealth if there are any patrolling spirits around.

Isn't there a quality that reduces your astral signature? Stack it with Astral Hazing?

[TheOOB]

You cannot normally as a mundane - they can see you on the astral and you as a mundane have no defense against that at all aside from physically interposing cover such as a wall between you and them, which still works here.

Not that that would matter at all of course, because as you cannot see them, you have no idea where they are, and thus no way to hide from them.

Infiltration still works to some degree in the physical, hiding behind things works plenty well, and if you have a magician on your team they can be astral spotter.

On the other hand, when you are the center of your own private moving domain, you get noticed pretty quickly. It's like trying to sneak into MCTs seattle headquarters going 80mph in a mach truck with a flaming skull painted on the side and playing AC/DC on the loudspeaker.

[Hagga]

While shouting "SILENCE AND STEALTH."

I wonder - the background count fades when you're gone, but is it only the extended background count that fades? As in, once you move, your (essence)metres goes immediately if you haven't been there long enough for it to expand?

[TheOOB]

While shouting "SILENCE AND STEALTH."

I wonder - the background count fades when you're gone, but is it only the extended background count that fades? As in, once you move, your (essence)metres goes immediately if you haven't been there long enough for it to expand?

I'd imagine the area would still feel weird for a little while after you left, but not enough to cause any mechanical effects.

[Stahlseele]

maybe the background count would be noticeable . . if only through sudden death on watchers and other weak magical stuff . .
but aside from that, ever tried to track background count? the whole city is more or less one giant background count, with other areas in the same strength reagion . . it'd be like tracing the fill of one bathtub in an ocean O.o

[AllTheNothing]

Isn't there a quality that reduces your astral signature? Stack it with Astral Hazing?

Staking? Background count imposes visibility modifiers on astral so yes they stack in the sense that the assensing test is harder but astral hazing is probably going to tip the opposition that something is wrong, making them itchy on the triggers.

[pbangarth]

Sure, but as I point out that just, really, costs you access to the 'heal' spell, while you gain a huge defense against pretty much all magic.

Its certainly better than magic resistance, and that is a positive quality!

Damnit, compare it to arcane arrestor - thats worse in virtually all situations and is a 25BP positive quality.

I concur wholeheartedly with posters who argue standing close together invites trouble.

However, there are many useful spells other than Heal which help teammates, some of which require touch, all of which would be reduced in effect by this Quality. Also, there are many spirit powers which are good for the team, which also would be nuked by this Quality. And the allied mage(s) would be very hesitant to allow this character to stand still for any length of time, as the area of effect would grow. "Hey Joe, you wanna go over and kick Fred awake, I'm startin' to feel a bit queasy."

Peter

P.S. Now, a whole team of non-magicals with this Quality, sent after some bug spirits, say, would be fun to watch.

[Dr Funfrock]

Not to mention the fact that whilst spreading out is great in theory, in practice you don't always get that option. Take a look at how SWAT teams work, and show me the 10 metre separation there. You're trying to apply field warfare tactics to urban warfare circumstances.

What it all comes down to is one of the most important rules that character optimisers forget; "No character exists in a vacuum".
You are part of a team, and the rules asume that anything that screws over your team, even if it gives you some advantage, is a negative quality, and rightly so.

Let's consider what happens when the group gets pinned down by enemy fire in an alleyway, with very little cover available. The mage and the physad either have to suck up a -4 penalty, or run out into the open just to get away from your hazing zone. Think they're going to let you stick around on the team very long after that?
Frankly, astral hazing is so ridiculously detrimental to your team dynamic it's practically an NPC only quality. The only way I can see it working is in a pure mundane team, in which case go hog-wild. There's a lot of mileage to be had in a melee focused mundane character who runs around slotting spirits up close. Yes, it means you're getting a bargain, but only because the rest of the players were willing to run with the concept. I see no problem at all with that idea. The party as a whole has had to limit themselves quite severely, which more than makes up for whatever advantage was gained.

[Glyph]

While I agree that it should remain a negative quality, mainly because of how conspicuous it is, keep in mind that the astral hazing extends by Essense in meters. Most people who pick up this quality will be sammies with fractional Essense, so it won't screw up the awakened characters that much.

They will still probably find it very creepy, and awakened NPCs capable of astral perception will probably have negative reactions to the PC (think the equivalent of three weeks without bathing B.O.). And the astral hazing can spread if you stay in an area too long, so likely the character with astral hazing will be bunking in the next room.