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[Doc Hopper]

I'm thinking of a campaing I'd like to run that has a grittier feel, like the 1st and 2nd edition days of old. But the players I run with usually like the higher power settings. Is there a way I can start with a normal power level, and introduce a grittier world without frustrating them too much?

I'd like to have character creation at a normal power level too, but I doubt the players have the patience to go through BeCKs. What are the usual limits imposed, no 1m nuyen, no high attributes, no high skills? I was thinking of limiting character creation to the base book only, no outside sources.

[Cheese Emperor]

Grittier isn't just about what the players are, though it helps. Show them the cold heart of the streets. See an innocent beg for mercy from a gang-member and then get his head blown off. Put them through hardships. Ghouls always help things seem grittier. Perhaps the runners encounter a mishapen bioware experiment that begs to be killed to be put out of its mercy. Etc. etc.

[Doc Hopper]

Can you have "gritty" without "depressing?" I've introduced emotion-wrenching situations before, but they didn't have the effect that I wanted. A slow, gradual introduction of the cold heart of the street is what I'm looking for. Maybe I won't wait until run 9 for the Johnson to screw them over and leave them with nothing more than a half can of synthol and an empty pack of smokes to survive on.

[Fahr]

It's all about the attitude of the game, not the mechanics, you want grittier, use descriptions that are diretier, and grittier... screw them more often , or allow for random violence...

A good set of descriptives (I use a notepad file full of words to help me describe things) can greatly affect the mood of the game.

Not gritty Ex:
You arrive at the Stuffer shack on your Bike and see the rough Gangers about to bust the place up for it's weekly protection money

Gritty Ex:
You arrive at the run-down and dirty Stuffer shack on your Bike and see the Gang "Red-Heralds of Death" about to burn the place down for not paying this weeks blood money.

-Fahr

[Backgammon]

Read cyberpunk books.

[Rev]

Yea. It is all about atmospheric description and making that atmosphere affect them.

I am not very good at doing it either. Not that I can't do it when I think of it, but I usually forget to do it at all. Maybe stick a big note right in front of yourself "GRIT".

Look up some pictures of a factory shanty town in northern mexico, mogadishu, kosovo, a market in bangledesh, a checkpoint in Israel. That is something like what the barrens are like. Reference that stuff. Make it tough to get around. Going into or out of the barrens isn't something to be done four times a day. They should feel like they are going into another country. Going deep inside can get to be something of an expidition for those from outside and vice versa.

Walk around a federal office building... though you'll need a reason to go in nowdays (think back if you ever got a passport). Notice how it drips security. How everyone looks sort of the same inside (dress codes, shudder). How the place is kind of soul less. I work right next to them and there are always multiple security guards patrolling the outside front and back, and more inside. They have put up concrete car bomb barriers all around the thing. Every corp building in shadowrun is like that.

[bwdemon]

If you want to keep power levels down, don't do it by limiting character creation in a static way, just limit die pools. If you limit the PCs' starting skills to 4, they can still make an Adept who'll roll 16+ dice for any attack. Keep the die pools down to around 10-12 dice for any given thing and you won't have too many problems. Speed isn't half the problem that it used to be and every archetype can access some sort of speed enhancement, so I wouldn't even worry about it.

Strictly enforce availability and street index, both during and after chargen. If players want to negotiate (someone usually does), then let them. Just let them know in advance that they're dealing with professional merchants, not just Shadowrunners with a shopping hobby. After they pay above street index a few times, they'll get the hint and start taking normal rates.

If you want things darker and grittier, it all begins with the NPCs. Give the NPCs flaws (not just in the game sense, but negative character traits) and you'll drag the game into a darker, nastier place instantly. If the PCs go to a street doc, make it a street doc, not a SOTA clinic staffed with the best of the best. When I think "street doc", I think about a guy with a case of the shakes and a cigarette hanging out of his badly-stained teeth; the kind of guy who's pulled a few less-than-vital organs while his patients were under and who does the occasional bait-and-switch with second-hand 'ware to keep his BTL habit going. Of course, he'd never do that to the PCs... right? ;) Stop allowing the Armani-dressed gun dealers in spotless mansions with limitless access to everything the PCs want. Instead, the PCs have to get into the Barrens to buy whatever's available out of the back of a van. They may have to bid for it against others looking to enhance their own arsenals and then they've got to get the items out of the Barrens afterward.

Contacts are no more than just that - they aren't lifelong friends or even friendly. They're people that your character knows who can maybe get a thing done. They sure as hell won't do it for free and they won't hang themselves out to dry for you, either. Look at the character and look at the contact. Now ask yourself "how would a contact at this level view the character?". Is the character "too good" to deal with the contact or vice versa? Would the NPC put forth their best effort for the PC? Race, criminal/corporate ties, and other factors can also help determine how contacts will react to PCs ("What do you think you're doing? You brought one of them in here? You friends with him or something? I think you need to go and take your 'friend' with you before I forget we've done business before...").

The people your PCs are dealing with (not to mention the PCs themselves) will be criminals of one sort or another. They have something wrong with them that makes them unsuitable for a normal life. Well-meaning utopians are few and far between, so you're going to be looking at people with mental or social problems. Try to figure out what made the NPC choose the life they did and bring that across to the players.

Finally, don't give the players easy choices. "Black Hats v. White Hats" makes for good heroic gameplay, but it doesn't do anything to make a game dark or gritty. Consequences exist for every action to some degree or another, you just need to express those consequences. Would the players do some organlegging to get some new cyber for their street samurai? Would the players help a toxic shaman or blood mage for help with some new spells? Would the players kill someone who is doing good work in a community to climb the criminal/corporate ladder? Would the players turn over one of their contacts as a favor to another? A PC's Lone Star contact shows up to deal with a problem the PC caused, does he kill/harm the contact or allow his team members to harm/kill the contact or does he leave a run unfulfilled? What does the contact do and how does the PC react to that? Give the PCs a heaping helping of moral dilemmas and see how they react.

[Saintgrimm]

First, I want to say "Damn good ideas" to everyone before me. In reference to Backgammon's one liner... Pick up "Mirrorshades," if you can get a hold of it. I think the proper title is Mirrorshades: A cyberpunk Anthology.

It's got some great short stories in it, like Johnny Mnemonic, and Till Human voices wake us. It has a little fantasy in it, like Petra, but they are good stories none the less. You may also want to pick up a movie called Strange Days. I love it. Great for a grittier future, and for the simsense and BTL community. Snuff films in Sim.

Second, you want a gritty atmosphere. Simple to define gritty, no?

Main Entry: grit·ty
Pronunciation: 'gri-tE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): grit·ti·er; -est
Date: 1598
1 : containing or resembling grit
2 : courageously persistent : PLUCKY
3 : having strong qualities of tough uncompromising realism

Here, we so want to focus on the Bold.
Tough, Uncompromising, realism.

Can be a hard act. So lets look at things that help.
First. Introduce Poverty. I find it sometimes helps if the players start that way, or find themselves that way, but in truth poverty is one of the great equalizers in creating a gritty atmosphere. Images thrown in passing can help this. Sometimes you might want to practice an even tone of voice when describing. Now, I'm not saying go monotonal... Just make it sound casual.

"So, you guys are set to meet with SlimEddy over at corner of Third and Westmeier, just inside the Barrens. TJ, you said you and Blackmoor are heading by way of your bike? And Julia, you're driving your new Sedan? Okay. The trip goes by fairly quickly. There was an accident that slowed you down on 18th, but not enough that you'll be late. As you roll up to the corner, you see a man digging in a trashcan and pulling out a half eaten sandwich. He gives an envious look at the sedan... and there across the street, SlimEddy comes around the corner, his eyes shifting, looking like he's ready to bolt."

You can toss in enough of this over time, that people will feel it in their bones. It helps if you can counter this with something else. A counterpoint is always good. Something like a meet in a place where they are suddenly overdressed... or underdressed.

It's a lot of fun when runners end up showing at a Posh new restraunt in clothes that have been worn for three days. Or when a contact calls them from their night at the theatre, where they just had a meet in the balcony, to a slum warehouse, where people look like they'll about fall over from starvation. And here is our Player, looking like he's worth a Hundred Thou.

And if they decide to help... Toss a few Yen to the locals to make themselves feel better, make sure that they can see people fight over credsticks, or perhaps there are just too many to help. Poverty can be a disease in a game and in real life. In both cases, it can even be terminal. Let them feel it, even if they do not suffer from it. Like they say about Cancer. If no one you know has died from it, someone you know knows somebody who has.

That's enough on poverty, though there are a thousand more tricks. Next, might want to move into Bigotry. This isn't just about racism and the Policlubs, though it damn well includes it. It's about Bigots, plain and simple. We live in a wold that has some damned closed minded individuals. And most of us have some intolerance towards something. Some of us may not like a race, a sex, a religion, a creed, or people we think are stupid.

Push that into the game if you players can be comfortable with it. Hell, even if they are uncomfortable, you can still do it, as long as it does not go to offensive. Making a player a little uncomfortable is okay. Especially if you talk with them first, and let them know. Explaining that you might use these reactions to pull them into a game will often have people lining up to play in such situations.

Make the contact only willing to speak with a female(especially if there are none in the group. LOL saw one where they had to hire another NPC runner for the team just to get info), or an Ork. Maybe a person hates mages. Or hates the color green. Maybe you get a contact who calls in to offer some info, and when he is offered money for it, he gets offended. Maybe he just wanted to do a good deed, and feels like he is about to be bought.

We are human, and extreme, and sometimes irrational reactions take place, and sometimes those are linked to what we are intollerant of. Use it. Let it guide you. Be at one with the Fo...ahh fsck it.

Anyway, those are just some minor ideas.

[Siege]

Go for atmosphere and make a cheat sheet of descriptives -- "The bleak morning rain hammers your face relentlessly"

"The stench of smoke and smog and less pleasent aromas assault your nostrils; the squish of dead rodents under your boot heel as shadows skitter in the twilight."

Although you may want to make yours less cliched than mine. :grinbig:

-Siege

[Cheese Emperor]

There's a reason it's cliche though. It's damn good. It's kind of hard, not impossible, to make a gritty run happen on a bright, clear, sunny day on several levels. There's the fact that it hampers the principle of Shadowruns, it makes things more noticeable, etc. There's also the fact that the corps are supposed to pollute the planet nearly to hell and back including acid rain and everything. And pllution isn't just things like smoke, I imagine there's a whole new classification of pollution in 2063, bodies.

[Siege]

Look at your favorite gritty movie or book and dissect it -- what makes it gritty to you?

"Blade Runner" and "Payback" are two great films for that kind of analysis.

-Siege

[Req]

My players play BodyLotto, the lottery of 2058. Every day the Seattle Times publishes the number of corpses found the night before in each of Seattle's districts, and the more districts you match, the more you win! It's a bit tongue in cheek but I think it really exemplifies the lack of value that human life holds in the Shadowrun world...and on the rare occasion that they win, it's a great time. :)

[Userlimit]

Make most NPCs they meet driven by money and money only. Really unwilling to help, with a "i only look out fer meself" type attitude. I find that it can help.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Cheese Emperor]

I knew I was forgetting someting, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was. And there it is, that majestic word "indifference." Although it isn't everything as was mentioned in some other topic I can't remember the name of, the Japanese even today have this indifference but we don't really look at them as gritty. I don't, at least.

[Kagetenshi]

Yes, but Japan tends to be relatively outwardly clean and safe. Keep the indifference, scrap the appearance of safety and cleanliness, and you've got your grit.

~J

[RedmondLarry]

All of the above are good ideas, most of which address how the GM describes the environment. I've got a couple ideas that are related to the game mechanics.

1) Character death happens and is to be feared. I think of this as part of a "gritty" game. If the players have ever seen you 'go easy' on them, just to avoid killing them off, you may have to introduce this concept gradually. Perhaps run an NPC as a team member and cause his death, or arrange with the next person who runs a new character for you to kill off that character in a day or two. Kill off a contact too, when it is appropriate.

2) If you've been rolling dice behind a GM screen, take the screen away. Tell them that a lucky shot by an opponent can destroy the best plan or the best character and you're going to let the dice land where they may. Have them see an NPC use Karma pool to kill them, or even burn karma for an extra success. They hate that. But the realism will increase their overall enjoyment.

3) Introduce the concept that not all runs presented by Mr. Johnsons are to be taken. Some runs are over their heads, some risk too much exposure, some don't pay enough. They'll never know if they've inadvertently accepted a run that is too tough for them.

[toturi]

If you want grit, try taking away some of the Edges in SRcomp or do away with them altogether. And forbid them from buying Level 2 Contacts. All the every man for himself grit comes smack into the unyielding PC wall called Connected or Buddy because they paid good :nuyen: or BP for those Edges and no way are they going to let you screw them over. One thing I've learnt is putting your PCs' contacts in the shitter is a good way of getting rid of players. Now that's RL grit.

[DV8]

One day, long ago, a question of style got raised on ShadowRN regarding the Seattle Barrens. A lot of replies errupted, a few of which I thought were worth mentioning here. It seemed appropriate: Click here.

[Sunday_Gamer]

Try to avoid descriptions like: The happy puppy brings you his squeaky toy.

I find puppies always take the edge off "gritty"

Sunday.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Yeah. It's much better if it goes something like: You see a mangy, three-legged mutt try to hobble to a discarded soy-burger on the side-walk, but some suit walks into it, kicking it to the roadside where a black, streched sedan parks right on it with a crunching sound. The mirrored rear window of the shiny new lexus opens to reveal the face of Mr Johnson.

Or whatever. I'm a sucky GM in this respect, and my players never pay any attention to the flavor stuff (which makes it too easy for me to sneak extremely important stuff right past them sometimes) so I hardly ever make the effort.

[Lash]

[Kagetenshi]

For books, I'd recommend The Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick, and indeed anything by Michael Swanwick, though the grit varies a tad.
I'd thought I'd already posted that, but I can't find it, so if this is duplicate advice ignore one iteration.

~J

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Doc Hopper]

Wow, great suggestions everybody, this will be one heck of a descriptions list when I write it up.

Speaking of descriptions, I once saw a random location generator (complete with descriptions for ground, walls, knick-knacks, and others) for Shadowrun, and I think it had some grittyness in it. Does anyone know where I can find it, or what its name is?

Thanks again, I've been so tired of the brighter, comic-book, action-focused image that I'm seeing in the latest Shadowrun products, but that's for a different discussion.