Changing the duration of combat turns, 1 sec rounds? Options

[MaxMahem]

A common complaint about the shadowrun combat rules is that they are terribly inaccurate when it comes to measuring the firing rate of guns. One possible solution to this is to decrease the duration of a combat turn, from 3 secounds to 1. While this still doesn't accurately portray the rate most firearms can be emptied, it brings it a lot closer.

Of course the effects of this are far-reaching. One thing that immediatly springs to mind is that movement rates are all messed up. I would propose for 1 second turns, humans could move 1m per point of agility, +1m per hit on a running test. This gives fairly accurate representation of the average and extreme human running rate by my approximation. Half this rate if just walking.

Other points, some action which seemed reasonable during a 3 second turn seem much less so. Especially melee combat, but also manipulation of some items like doors or windows. Which might become complex actions instead of simple ones.

Thoughts?

[Platinum Dragon]

While guns fire too slow in SR, bows fire too quickly. Lowering the combat round to 1 second will only compound that problem further.

[krayola red]

I don't really have any problems with the firing rate of guns in SR. It's not like you're trying to unload bullets as fast as you can pull the trigger, so I'm assuming you're using that extra time to take aim at a target who's most likely trying their hardest not to get shot by you, as well as stuff like ducking in and out of cover.

[Scoot]

I don't think so for bow firing speeds. I shoot foam arrows at people, and from a loaded position, I can fire, reload, and fire again in about 2-3 seconds.

[TheOOB]

Really, because I always found the firing rates of guns to be quite realistic. Via suppresive you can shoot up to 20 bullets per pass, which is pretty reasonable(heck, that means you could get up to 80 bullets in three seconds, thats nasty, and slightly unrealistic).

As for semi-auto, a normal person can fire two shots a round. Keep in mind that these are aimed shots. I don't know many people who can aim and fire more then twice in a three second period without losing a great deal of accuracy, and those who can could be represented as having multiple IPs. If you want to fire 6 bullets during your one pass, fine, but the extra recoil and lack of aiming will just balance with any extra chance you may have of hitting your target due to shooting more often.

[Metapunk]

I find the combat turns fine. since it is needed to duck and all, and the only way you will just shoot to shoot is when making suppresive fire.
besides no matter how fast you are and how many IPs you have, the gun can still only unload a certain amount of bullets IMO, that would mean in my games you cant shoot 80 bullets in one combat turn if the weapon needs three seconds to empty itself. no matter how fast or cybered you are

peace

[GreyBrother]

Aren't the 3 seconds for a combat turn relative? I think they never said "A CT lasts for 3 seconds. Period." More like "Basically, it's 3 seconds or whatever seems realistic for describing what happens."

[Sir_Psycho]

The whole three seconds thing is an abstraction, just like the rest of the rule system in general. I don't see the point in getting caught up on exactly how long a combat turn is.

[ialdabaoth]

One second rounds actually work really well. Instead of Initiative Passes, use an "Action Point" system, with every character having an "Action Pool" that caps at 5. At the end of each turn, they gain a number of AP equal to their Initiative Passes, which may be spent on Complex Actions (4 AP), Simple Actions (2 AP) or Free Actions (1 AP). At the beginning of combat, everyone rolls Initiative to determine their initial AP (which also caps at 5); after that, everyone goes on whichever second they have enough AP to act on, and no one has to re-roll initiative until combat is over. If two people try to go at the same time, just have the one with the higher Initiative win out.

[ialdabaoth]

One second rounds actually work really well. Instead of Initiative Passes, use an "Action Point" system, with every character having an "Action Pool" that caps at 5. At the end of each turn, they gain a number of AP equal to their Initiative Passes, which may be spent on Complex Actions (4 AP), Simple Actions (2 AP) or Free Actions (1 AP). At the beginning of combat, everyone rolls Initiative to determine their initial AP (which also caps at 5); after that, everyone goes on whichever second they have enough AP to act on, and no one has to re-roll initiative until combat is over. If two people try to go at the same time, just have the one with the higher Initiative win out.

[MaxMahem]

One second rounds actually work really well. Instead of Initiative Passes, use an "Action Point" system, with every character having an "Action Pool" that caps at 5. At the end of each turn, they gain a number of AP equal to their Initiative Passes, which may be spent on Complex Actions (4 AP), Simple Actions (2 AP) or Free Actions (1 AP). At the beginning of combat, everyone rolls Initiative to determine their initial AP (which also caps at 5); after that, everyone goes on whichever second they have enough AP to act on, and no one has to re-roll initiative until combat is over. If two people try to go at the same time, just have the one with the higher Initiative win out.

Hmm... this idea is kind of abstract, but I like it.

Another way you could do it would be to have everyone roll initiative, and for each hit they get an 'action point'. Under this system Complex Actions would be 2AP and Simple Actions would be 1AP (free actions would have no cost. Then the characters could take action in whatever order they like, with those with the most action points remaining taking priority... when everyone is out of AP, a new round would start. hmmm...