Vultures, My PCs like to pick clean the bones of their victims Options

[evilgoattea]

So yeah,

I ran a mission, and afterward they went back and pretty much looted every body for all the gear they could get... how should I dissuade this type of behavior? I mean I don't mind an occasinaly looting, but now the group has like 4 extra ares alphas and a bunch of frags, and an extra thousand rounds of ammo.

-Josh

[Stahlseele]

no real way to do that aside from not giving them the time or simply upping the pay for the run . .
if they do it with high pay, then just simply do not give them the time to do looting runs like that. .
have lonestar or a corp swat team be on their way . . mages/spirits and or drones can be there in
like . . seconds O.o

[hyzmarca]

So yeah,

I ran a mission, and afterward they went back and pretty much looted every body for all the gear they could get... how should I dissuade this type of behavior? I mean I don't mind an occasinaly looting, but now the group has like 4 extra ares alphas and a bunch of frags, and an extra thousand rounds of ammo.

-Josh

I notice that you didn't mention any cyberware, bioware, or just plain ol' spare organs. This tells me that you do not, in fact, have any sort of problem. Call back when they're hocking other people's used livers.

[The Jopp]

Stolen guns leave traces, ballistic testing will confirm if it has been used in several places. Using stolen guns from a corp for example can give more than once kind of trace:
-RFID tags (Passive ones)
-Ballistic Profile

Ammunition could actually ALSO have RFID tags in them due to being so small. Most of them might be destroyed on impact but is otherwise a good way of seeing if stolen ammunition have been used.

Stealing everything not bolted down is a sign of two things:
1. Amateurs
2. Runners DESPERATE for equipment

...And their rep will follow suit.

Stolen goods is usually not worth much cash due to above notes and will not get them much since I have a feeling that most fixers have standard guns.

Keep heavy ordinance (Assault Rifle, FA-Shotguns and above) outside of military units. Security guards have at best SMG's for the really heavily guarded places and a sidearm and a baton (tazer batons perhaps).

Boobytraps

Let each corporate owned weapon have a self destruct that activates once it gets ouside signal range of the corp/building/node in order for them to stop theft.

Another solution is TIME. If they have time to stop and stripsearch each and every guard/dog/civilian/gnat during a run then the police/runner team/oppossition etc have time to intervene.

The best run is in/out in as short time as possible with noone being the wiser that someone actually WAS there.

[Chrysalis]

Time. It takes time to loot bodies. It takes time to load up the van with all your stuff. It also gives that guard who was just unconscious time to pull his sidearm underneath him so when you turn him over he will have a gun pointed at the perp's face.

It also takes time to sell the junk and solid contacts to do so. It also takes time to clean up after using the same rounds stolen off one security guard in another run. They start putting together a media sexy profile and they are on the news. When they are on the news the ADA is breathing down Lone Star's neck for results. Results involve a task force and SWAT and the time you notice SWAT is either when they ask you to come up with your hands up and if they decide to cock their weapons the sniper on the roof will pull the trigger and the leader will discover what red pumpkin juice looks like.

[WeaverMount]

Well like with any behavior modification think about the motive. As Stahlseele mentioned pay is an issue. IMO the pre written missions pay an insanely small amount. There are several threads floating around about stealing cars and using that as a bench mark for runs. That line of thinking establishes 5000 as per runner as the minimum amount that is worth getting out of bed for. Stealing a crappy car from a crappy neighborhood and moving it is trivial for a 400bp runner. That will get you around 5k after you factor in the RAW minuses for it being used, and hot. Stealing a nice car from a descent neighborhood is much harder, but still very easy on the scale of what runners do. That can easily get 10-15k. While very few players are doing this kind of math in there heads if you aren't giving this kind of pay out clever players will think of all kinds of ways to make way more money than running. What's worse is that lots of characters have to break character to keep running and stay with the team. This might not be the issue, but when you said mentioned the team having a couple extra alpha's a bunch of frags like that was some kind of problem. If you are trying to keep the players on that tight a budge the face will just go turn a couple tricks, while the hacker bags a couple drones, the mage influences someone into emptying there bank account, and the B&E specialist steals car.

Another way to fix the issue is make it harder to move the stuff. Fixers don't like working with insanity hot merchandise. They especially don't like dealing with insanely hot /cheep/ merchandise. It is isn't worth the time or the risk. Also just like runners are looking to move up and get bigger runs, fixers are looking to move up make bigger deals. No way are they going to keep setting up deals to move lightly shot armor out of bulldog for the next ever.

lastly if your players are having fun looting let them loot. Make the be the challenge and the pay out. Savaganging is a very legit way to survive in a cyberpunk setting

[Ryu]

So yeah,

I ran a mission, and afterward they went back and pretty much looted every body for all the gear they could get... how should I dissuade this type of behavior? I mean I don't mind an occasinaly looting, but now the group has like 4 extra ares alphas and a bunch of frags, and an extra thousand rounds of ammo.

-Josh

The collect weapons and keep them? No problem. Collecting weapons doesn´t even register on the vulture scale.

[Medicineman]

So yeah,

I ran a mission, and afterward they went back and pretty much looted every body for all the gear they could get... how should I dissuade this type of behavior? I mean I don't mind an occasinaly looting, but now the group has like 4 extra ares alphas and a bunch of frags, and an extra thousand rounds of ammo.

-Josh

Why should you dissuade it ?
Its just some weapons they pilfered ,nothing more (and by the way ; you as a GM gave 'em the Guns & Ammo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

JahtaHey
Medicineman

[evilgoattea]

I think it should be dissuaded because while it isn't a problem now, i don't like the idea of them having a full armory of stuff so they never have to buy gear again lol. The particular run they weren't really pressed for time so I didn't see a reason that they couldn't loot everyone, but next time this will not be the case.

-Josh

[toturi]

I think it should be dissuaded because while it isn't a problem now, i don't like the idea of them having a full armory of stuff so they never have to buy gear again lol. The particular run they weren't really pressed for time so I didn't see a reason that they couldn't loot everyone, but next time this will not be the case.

-Josh

Why don't you like your runners to have lots of guns so they'd never have to buy those pieces of gear again? Do you routinely equip your guards with high end weapons?

If not, I do not see why not. Again as quite a few posters have pointed out, you do not have a problem. Your problem begins when your PCs loot your NPCs' cyberware and other expensive but commoditised hardware.

[Bira]

I don't see a problem, either. If you really want to, and they haven't done anything at all to "launder" the guns, you can have police or corpsec start tracking them through ballistic profiles as they use their loot. Otherwise, if they just keep the stuff as trophies or do their "due dilligence" by wiping RFID tags and switching barrels, I see no problem at all with this. They've earned the loot. Let them spend their money on something other than guns.

[Beetle]

An old mantra around my table, regardless of game is "The GM will provide." If you don't want the players to have an armory of high powered weapons, don't put them into play. It's an understood rule in my parts if the GM puts the shiny objects within out sights, it's fair game for loot. Heck, most of the ammo we have is looted. This is as much of a precautionary method for avoiding getting shot in the back when Joe Security wakes up as it is for offsetting the cost for spent rounds. Luckily we don't get into arenas of ware snatching, that's when you have problems.

If it's really an issue with your game, downgrade the weapons they're using and don't put out as much ammo. Just don't forget to put in a nice piece of gear every now and again to offset expenses or to give upgrades to their used equipment. Also, extra mooks are a nice way to compensate for security not having the latest and greatest Assault Rifle or LMG. Cannon fodder is cannon fodder, they're just there to slow you down. No need to equip them to the 9's. Unless you're kicking down the doors of a AAA's high security location, smaller corps and AAA office facilities are probably outfitting their security from the lowest bidder to cover a certain level of threat and not every location is set up to handle an assault team of highly trained shadowrunners. Your mileage may vary, but it's something to keep in mind.

[evilgoattea]

Would a corp be able to lockout a weapon if it's not within the signal of the building?

[Backgammon]

Would a corp be able to lockout a weapon if it's not within the signal of the building?

Sure, why not. Of course, if you're going to do that, it'd be more logical to go with a biometric ID pad on the gun, so it can only be fired by the registered owner. I mean, what's the point in investing in a lock that makes guns not fire outside corp property? Someone can still pick it up and kill one of your own guards. It makes very little sense to disallow a gun to fire outside of an area. Make a lot more sense to disallow it to fire within an area, in fact. But whatever, just go with biometric safety. It's in the rulebook anyway.

[evilgoattea]

That sounds pretty good, what page is it on in the rulebook?

[Fortune]

As with most of the others, I just don't see the problem here.

[The Jopp]

Would a corp be able to lockout a weapon if it's not within the signal of the building?

They should, the problem is that all it takes after that is some hacking.

I can really see that corporations and security companies don't want their hardware used against them and most of all not used at all by someone not their personel.

A small proposal just for fun:

Standard Corp Weapon Hardware
Biometric Safety
Boobytrap (Self Destruct)
Safe Target System
Agent Rating 1 (Loss of signal activates self destruct)

[Backgammon]

That sounds pretty good, what page is it on in the rulebook?

Oops sorry, not rulebook. It is "Advanced Safety" from Arsenal, p.32.

EDIT: To note though, it's true you are still just one easy hack away from disabling that. The only way to reduce looting, if you are so inclined, is to not give the runners time to loot. Backup should always be on it's way. Runners should live up to their namesakes.

[evilgoattea]

Yeah, i know, thanks a bunch I appreciate all the help & advice!

[hyzmarca]

I don't see any problem with PCs collecting arsenals for one simple reason. It doesn't matter what guns you have at home; it only matters what guns you have on you. Spares do diddly squat unless you have extra arms.

And in the unlikely event that several of your PCs spent the BP required to be the suxtupple-armed Avatar of an Indian god, then by all means let whem tri-wield Ares Alphas to their hearts' content. If not, just remind them that they can only fire one gun at a time.

[Thadeus Bearpaw]

Stolen guns leave traces, ballistic testing will confirm if it has been used in several places. Using stolen guns from a corp for example can give more than once kind of trace:
-RFID tags (Passive ones)
-Ballistic Profile

Ammunition could actually ALSO have RFID tags in them due to being so small. Most of them might be destroyed on impact but is otherwise a good way of seeing if stolen ammunition have been used.

Stealing everything not bolted down is a sign of two things:
1. Amateurs
2. Runners DESPERATE for equipment

...And their rep will follow suit.

Stolen goods is usually not worth much cash due to above notes and will not get them much since I have a feeling that most fixers have standard guns.

Keep heavy ordinance (Assault Rifle, FA-Shotguns and above) outside of military units. Security guards have at best SMG's for the really heavily guarded places and a sidearm and a baton (tazer batons perhaps).

Boobytraps

Let each corporate owned weapon have a self destruct that activates once it gets ouside signal range of the corp/building/node in order for them to stop theft.

Another solution is TIME. If they have time to stop and stripsearch each and every guard/dog/civilian/gnat during a run then the police/runner team/oppossition etc have time to intervene.

The best run is in/out in as short time as possible with noone being the wiser that someone actually WAS there.

/Thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[DireRadiant]

So yeah,

I ran a mission, and afterward they went back and pretty much looted every body for all the gear they could get... how should I dissuade this type of behavior? I mean I don't mind an occasinaly looting, but now the group has like 4 extra ares alphas and a bunch of frags, and an extra thousand rounds of ammo.

-Josh

So the hordes of desperate sinless didn't loot these things while the runners were off doing the rest of the mission?

There are other vultures, jackals, and the occasional lion.

[Hatspur]

When you start to steal things from a corporation that you weren't paid to steal, you just made the run personal. Generating personal vendettas against corporations is the easiest way to encourage them to spend more time tracking you and making your life miserable.

You must view yourself as a tool and nothing more to your employer and your target. The reason why we have old shadowrunners like Fastjack is that they never made a run especially personal unless they had reason to.

[evilgoattea]

So the hordes of desperate sinless didn't loot these things while the runners were off doing the rest of the mission?

There are other vultures, jackals, and the occasional lion.

No because while where they were running was in the barrens, it was a secret warehouse that they needed to learn the location of, so the only people inside were the runners and the oppostion.

-Josh

[cryptoknight]

IMO the pre written missions pay an insanely small amount.

Oh I don't know about that... of the few I've run for my players... they've managed to make a hefty sum... especially when in the third one the sam made a hail mary shot and disabled the chopper pilot with SNS just as the Technomancer finally managed to crack her commlink and take over the chopper and order it to land... 20% of a multi-hundred thousand Nuyen helicopter is a nice bonus (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)